UK PM May defeated in parliament, lawmakers create new obstacle to no-deal Brexit

[Baerboxer]

5 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Indeed. The Brexiteers are desperate as they can see popular opinion as well as the views of parliament have turned. It's now inevitable that Article 50 will have to be extended, followed by a General Election where if Labour have any sense, Remain is in their manifesto. Corbyn must go!

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
 

 

The UK cannot unilaterally extend Article 50. All 27 other member states would have to agree. 

 

The UK can and should withdraw Article 50. A General Election should then be fought with all parties declaring their intentions on EU membership.

 

But the spineless hypocritical politicians we currently have won't do this. The Tories are split and wouldn't be able to fight an election with a EU policy they all agreed on. The party would break up. Corbyn will never go voluntarily and is a life long anti EU campaigner. Labor would also likely split. That would fragment the parties and mean parties would have to seek support from the fringe parties from Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.

 

And all because of Tory in-fighting and incompetence which the incompetent Labor can't take advantage of and whose own in-fighting is getting worse.

 

 

[Baerboxer]

1 minute ago, melvinmelvin said:

if this is smth that the parliament could fancy I think the possible answer is easy.

ditch May ASAP, tomorrow- no need to wait for vote on deal, new PM / cabinet ASAP

go to EU and ask for extension

with a view to get that boombooming backstop out - but you will need a new PM/cabinet to even try to approach this.

 

May can't be removed that easily, having survived her party's no confidence vote.

 

They have apparently already "put out feelers" for an extension. Any extension would require all 27 other member states agreeing. Merkel is already saying Germany won't.

 

The three choices are:

1. Accept the deal May is proposing and leave under those conditions on 29/3/2019
2. Reject the deal and leave on the 29.3/2019 with no-deal. Something May's government are woefully prepared for.
3. Withdraw Article 50 which the UK can do unilaterally and which resets everything to how it was before.

There are no other choices, we've run out of options and time. 

[StreetCowboy]

46 minutes ago, nontabury said:

So your calling 17.4 million people the mob?

Why not come out and say your against Democracy.

I’m not sure where you are from, but where I come from, we elect MPs and the Queen invites generally a member of the largest party to form a government.

 

Sometimes, we all make mistakes.  I don’t know about you, but I sometimes drive a car, and when I find myself on the wrong road, I hate turning back and soldier on trying to find a way through. That’s why I would not make a good MP.

 

SC

[nontabury]

10 hours ago, Spidey said:

It's a gross insult to the institute of British parliament. Yvette Cooper signs her name, "Yvette Cooper MP" not "Yvette Cooper Lawmaker". Is the media now lowering it's ability to use the English language to pander to simpletons?

 

In the words of the immortal Vern Unsworth, "You can stick your lawmaker where the sun don't shine".

Yvette Cooper,wife of Ed Ball, ex-Labour  cabinet member.

 Cooper is the M.P for Normanton +Castleford, Yorkshire, a constituency in which the electorate Democratically  voted 70% in favour to leave the E.u.

 Yet like so many Labour M.P’s she considers her constituents to be uneducated and ignorant of the true intentions of the Bureaucrats inBrussels. In other words She’s Completely out of touch with her electorate, same as many so called Labour politicians, whose only experience of life, was gained drinking wine in Hempstead.

And now people wonder why it’s the people versus Parliament. Thus proving, that the only honorable Yorkshireman to enter Westminster was Guy Fawkes. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Grouse]

11 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

May can't be removed that easily, having survived her party's no confidence vote.

 

They have apparently already "put out feelers" for an extension. Any extension would require all 27 other member states agreeing. Merkel is already saying Germany won't.

 

The three choices are:

1. Accept the deal May is proposing and leave under those conditions on 29/3/2019
2. Reject the deal and leave on the 29.3/2019 with no-deal. Something May's government are woefully prepared for.
3. Withdraw Article 50 which the UK can do unilaterally and which resets everything to how it was before.

There are no other choices, we've run out of options and time. 

May should go for option 3 and have decision ratified by referendum but resign before the result.

[Grouse]

7 minutes ago, nontabury said:

Yvette Cooper,wife of Ed Ball, ex-Labour  cabinet member.

 Cooper is the M.P for Normanton +Castleford, Yorkshire, a constituency in which the electorate Democratically  voted 70% in favour to leave the E.u.

 Yet like so many Labour M.P’s she considers her constituents to be uneducated and ignorant of the true intentions of the Bureaucrats inBrussels. In other words She’s Completely out of touch with her electorate, same as many so called Labour politicians, whose only experience of life, was gained drinking wine in Hempstead.

And now people wonder why it’s the people versus Parliament. Thus proving, that the only honorable Yorkshireman to enter Westminster was Guy Fawkes. 

 

 

 

 

 

Nontabury, after all this time you still don't understand how our representative democracy works. Please read up on it before posting nobsense 

[baboon]

40 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

May can't be removed that easily, having survived her party's no confidence vote.

 

They have apparently already "put out feelers" for an extension. Any extension would require all 27 other member states agreeing. Merkel is already saying Germany won't.

 

The three choices are:

1. Accept the deal May is proposing and leave under those conditions on 29/3/2019
2. Reject the deal and leave on the 29.3/2019 with no-deal. Something May's government are woefully prepared for.
3. Withdraw Article 50 which the UK can do unilaterally and which resets everything to how it was before.

There are no other choices, we've run out of options and time. 

Ain't that the truth.

And to think that these m̶o̶t̶h̶e̶r̶f̶ scoundrels are just back from a bloody 3 week holiday! Better stop here before I end up banned...

[tomacht8]

54 minutes ago, Grouse said:

May should go for option 3 and have decision ratified by referendum but resign before the result.

To put it a bit exaggerated:
In the end, the UK can be grateful that the unpopular European Court clearly gave the UK the opportunity to cancel the dismissal (§50).

 

[tomacht8]

2 hours ago, Grouse said:

 

This is worth listening to particularly for those Brexiters who still don't understand

Interesting, as he describes the economic self-castration of the UK.
But I'm afraid that most Brexit advocates will drop it under the folder: Project Fear - unreflected.

[tomacht8]

1 hour ago, nontabury said:

Yvette Cooper,wife of Ed Ball, ex-Labour  cabinet member.

 Cooper is the M.P for Normanton +Castleford, Yorkshire, a constituency in which the electorate Democratically  voted 70% in favour to leave the E.u.

 Yet like so many Labour M.P’s she considers her constituents to be uneducated and ignorant of the true intentions of the Bureaucrats inBrussels. In other words She’s Completely out of touch with her electorate, same as many so called Labour politicians, whose only experience of life, was gained drinking wine in Hempstead.

And now people wonder why it’s the people versus Parliament. Thus proving, that the only honorable Yorkshireman to enter Westminster was Guy Fawkes. 

 

 

 

 

 

Why do you not move to Switzerland?
There are actually binding referendums at cantonal level.

[melvinmelvin]

2 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

May can't be removed that easily, having survived her party's no confidence vote.

 

They have apparently already "put out feelers" for an extension. Any extension would require all 27 other member states agreeing. Merkel is already saying Germany won't.

 

The three choices are:

1. Accept the deal May is proposing and leave under those conditions on 29/3/2019
2. Reject the deal and leave on the 29.3/2019 with no-deal. Something May's government are woefully prepared for.
3. Withdraw Article 50 which the UK can do unilaterally and which resets everything to how it was before.

There are no other choices, we've run out of options and time. 

a non conf motion in gov would ditch TM swiftly if passed

 

prolonging the a50 period is also a possibility, requires all 28 to agree though

 

[melvinmelvin]

1 hour ago, tomacht8 said:

Interesting, as he describes the economic self-castration of the UK.
But I'm afraid that most Brexit advocates will drop it under the folder: Project Fear - unreflected.

for boombooms sake how long time does he need to get to the juice?

can't be bothered with rambling like this

 

 

[dunroaming]

4 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

The UK cannot unilaterally extend Article 50. All 27 other member states would have to agree. 

 

The UK can and should withdraw Article 50. A General Election should then be fought with all parties declaring their intentions on EU membership.

 

But the spineless hypocritical politicians we currently have won't do this. The Tories are split and wouldn't be able to fight an election with a EU policy they all agreed on. The party would break up. Corbyn will never go voluntarily and is a life long anti EU campaigner. Labor would also likely split. That would fragment the parties and mean parties would have to seek support from the fringe parties from Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.

 

And all because of Tory in-fighting and incompetence which the incompetent Labor can't take advantage of and whose own in-fighting is getting worse.

 

 

Hits the nail firmly on the head!  Well said!

[Bluespunk]

Tick tock, tick tock

 

Brexit: Second Commons defeat for Theresa May in 24 hours http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46805269

[tebee]

5 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

a non conf motion in gov would ditch TM swiftly if passed

 

prolonging the a50 period is also a possibility, requires all 28 to agree though

 

A no confidence motion will, if passed, result in dumping not just TM, but the rest of the Conservative government, followed by a general election.

 

The only safe option would be to withdraw art 50, as it's very probable that GE would result in both parties splitting and a hung parliament. 

[champers]

16 hours ago, AGareth2 said:

MPs

Not totally, as the House of Lords is involved and all laws are signed off by the Queen. Grouping together as lawmakers seems fine to me.

[melvinmelvin]

1 hour ago, tebee said:

A no confidence motion will, if passed, result in dumping not just TM, but the rest of the Conservative government, followed by a general election.

 

The only safe option would be to withdraw art 50, as it's very probable that GE would result in both parties splitting and a hung parliament. 

yep

labour and tory both splitting would be a godsend

 

[nontabury]

1 hour ago, tebee said:

A no confidence motion will, if passed, result in dumping not just TM, but the rest of the Conservative government, followed by a general election.

 

The only safe option would be to withdraw art 50, as it's very probable that GE would result in both parties splitting and a hung parliament. 

In other words, disrespecting the Democratic vote of the British people,at an election/ referendum with the highest turnout in the history of the country.

 Furthermore what do you think, would be the effect on society if you disregard the people’s vote. What option would they then have?

[simple1]

29 minutes ago, nontabury said:

In other words, disrespecting the Democratic vote of the British people,at an election/ referendum with the highest turnout in the history of the country.

 Furthermore what do you think, would be the effect on society if you disregard the people’s vote. What option would they then have?

At the time of the referendum there was so much disinformation punted by the Leave campaign, could claim the process was fraudulent. Plus the fact the leaders of the Leave campaign chickened out of taking any responsibility for the negotiation of the processes required to Leave the EU, thereby making a nonsense of their credibility. IMO  now that a clearer picture has emerged it makes a lot of sense to have a second referendum with a more realistic Yes/NO e.g. 60/40 in favour one way or the other.

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, nontabury said:

In other words, disrespecting the Democratic vote of the British people,at an election/ referendum with the highest turnout in the history of the country.

 Furthermore what do you think, would be the effect on society if you disregard the people’s vote. What option would they then have?

You do the Brexit cause no good by continuing to demonstrate your ignorance of how our parliamentary representative democracy works.

[Henryford]

23 hours ago, Grouse said:

You clearly do not understand representative democracy or that parliament is sovereign!

Why did we even have a referendum them. If Parliament only wanted a Remain answer why waste 3 years and umpteen million Pounds talking about it.

[welovesundaysatspace]

2 hours ago, nontabury said:

In other words, disrespecting the Democratic vote of the British people,at an election/ referendum with the highest turnout in the history of the country.

If anything has been disrespecting democracy, it is the manipulated opinion poll that happened in 2016. It has done lots of damage to our democracy, and it is good to see now that the checks and balances of our parliamentary representative democracy still work.

 

2 hours ago, nontabury said:

 Furthermore what do you think, would be the effect on society if you disregard the people’s vote. What option would they then have?

The majority will be glad that democracy has been restored? The Brexiteers can go back to manipulating the poor and uneducated with lies and false promises in social media. 

[Grouse]

23 minutes ago, Henryford said:

Why did we even have a referendum them. If Parliament only wanted a Remain answer why waste 3 years and umpteen million Pounds talking about it.

You would have to ask the CONs and particularly Cameron who feared UKIP at the time. As you know, the referendum was advisory but Cameron committed the CONs to implement the views of the electorate. Parliament was not bound and the CONs no longer have a majority. Now that we all know much more I think Brexit is a very bad idea.

[Spidey]

1 hour ago, Henryford said:

Why did we even have a referendum them. If Parliament only wanted a Remain answer why waste 3 years and umpteen million Pounds talking about it.

Good question. Why did we have a referendum before people knew what they were voting on? I you must have a referendum, have it after negotiations have been concluded and we can fully understand the implications of remaining or leaving.

[BestB]

<deleted> Brits, so you leaving or staying ?????????????

[Spidey]

2 minutes ago, BestB said:

<deleted> Brits, so you leaving or staying ?????????????

Errr….Hang on a minute, can we just have a vote on that?

[welovesundaysatspace]

1 hour ago, Henryford said:

Why did we even have a referendum them. If Parliament only wanted a Remain answer why waste 3 years and umpteen million Pounds talking about it.

Isn’t it ironic how the Brexiteers won the manipulated opinion poll of 2016 with lots of false promises completely ignoring reality, and now realize Cameron did the same to them when he made the false promise that the result of the manipulated opinion poll would be implemented no matter what completely ignoring the reality of our parliamentary representative democracy? 

[baboon]

13 minutes ago, BestB said:

<deleted> Brits, so you leaving or staying ?????????????

Both...?

[sammieuk1]

I predict a high vis riot and not only in the house of commons at least we can sit back here and watch our own country in an uncivil war whilst burning our own junk pounds????

[Basil B]

7 hours ago, tebee said:

A no confidence motion will, if passed, result in dumping not just TM, but the rest of the Conservative government, followed by a general election.

 

The only safe option would be to withdraw art 50, as it's very probable that GE would result in both parties splitting and a hung parliament. 

As I understand it, if the government looses a confidence vote it would not automatically trigger a GE, any party could form a Government if they can get the backing of 326 MP's with in 14 days.

 

And the probability of a hung parliament is an almost certainty, unless UKIP raises from the ashes to totally split the Tory vote, the only way to form a government would be a deal with the smaller parties, and as they are all remainers they will only support a government that will bury Brexit.