Trump to focus on border 'crisis,' seek support for wall in televised address

[spidermike007]

2 hours ago, Boon Mee said:

The overwhelming majority of the American people support building the Wall so Trump will be able to keep another campaign promise. 

 

Only a massive consumption of the kool aid that the master is serving, could lead to a statement that is so erroneous, it does not even need to be disputed. Now, if you had said the majority of his base of 38%, that might have been accurate. The vast majority of Americans DO NOT support the wall, which is never going to get built. 

 

Roger stone was frustrated that Trump kept on forgetting to talk about immigration at the beginning of the campaign. He said Trump is a builder. He will remember to say build a wall. Hence the birth of the slogan and the fear mongering. The only terrorist apprehended at the border in the past 20 years was coming from Canada. All terrorists use the sea or come by air. None come by land. None. One in the past 20 years was caught. It is all a total ruse. Not only is illegal immigration way, way down, but if you look at crime statistics in the US, nine times more homicide is committed by American citizens, than by legal immigrants. And three times more homicide, by Americans, than by illegal immigrants. If Trump wants to solve the crime problem in the US, he has to get his own people in his administration and his team, to stop committing crime, then he has to stop committing crime, and then he can work on reforming his base, and then other Americans.

[Scott]

A post advocating illegal activity has been removed.  

 

[EVENKEEL]

5 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

 

Only a massive consumption of the kool aid that the master is serving, could lead to a statement that is so erroneous, it does not even need to be disputed. Now, if you had said the majority of his base of 38%, that might have been accurate. The vast majority of Americans DO NOT support the wall, which is never going to get built. 

 

Roger stone was frustrated that Trump kept on forgetting to talk about immigration at the beginning of the campaign. He said Trump is a builder. He will remember to say build a wall. Hence the birth of the slogan and the fear mongering. The only terrorist apprehended at the border in the past 20 years was coming from Canada. All terrorists use the sea or come by air. None come by land. None. One in the past 20 years was caught. It is all a total ruse. Not only is illegal immigration way, way down, but if you look at crime statistics in the US, nine times more homicide is committed by American citizens, than by legal immigrants. And three times more homicide, by Americans, than by illegal immigrants. If Trump wants to solve the crime problem in the US, he has to get his own people in his administration and his team, to stop committing crime, then he has to stop committing crime, and then he can work on reforming his base, and then other Americans.

You kind of shot yourself in the foot with those murder statistics, I'll let you figure it out.

[spidermike007]

6 minutes ago, Credo said:

Remember a part of this whole mess is his need for attention.   All the attention has been focused on Congress, the new members and he has largely been left out of the news cycle.   He needs attention.   This was his chance.

 

The speech itself was so uninspiring.   I actually got up and started doing something else.   Uninspiring and boring.   He does inflammatory well, but that's about it.

 

 

Trump is not an inspirational man. When he spews toxic hatred, vitriol, racist rants, and makes stuff up on the fly, his followers get inspired. But, he is not a man concerned by facts. And he is not an inspirer of men and women. He sure knows how to rile up his devotees. But, that is not the same thing as being a man of inspiration. That he will never be.

[samran]

2 hours ago, Boon Mee said:

The overwhelming majority of the American people support building the Wall so Trump will be able to keep another campaign promise. 

You forgot the bit about Mexico paying for it...

[spidermike007]

12 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

You kind of shot yourself in the foot with those murder statistics, I'll let you figure it out.

 

I know most Trump devotees will dismiss this article, as they will say it comes from the MSM. Most of us know that is simply deflection based on ignorance and following the wishes of the Master. But, the facts are the facts. The bottom line is that alot of white, native born Americans are real trouble makers. Not something Trump likes to discuss, as a percentage of these criminals are part of his base. 

 

"As a percentage of their respective populations, there were 56 percent fewer criminal convictions of illegal immigrants than of native-born Americans in Texas in 2015," author Alex Nowrasteh writes. "The criminal conviction rate for legal immigrants was about 85 percent below the native-born rate."

The data shows similar patterns for violent crimes such as homicide and property crimes such as larceny. The study did find that immigrants in the United States illegally were more likely than native-born people to be convicted of "gambling, kidnapping, smuggling, and vagrancy." But as those crimes represented just 0.18 percent of all convictions in Texas that year, they had little effect on overall crime rates.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/06/19/two-charts-demolish-the-notion-that-immigrants-here-illegally-commit-more-crime/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.32815e42cc32

 

 

[DM07]

2 hours ago, keemapoot said:

I'll see your 10 and raise you 5.

I'd say: only one!

...being the whole speech, mind you!

[mcambl61]

2 hours ago, Lungstib said:

This from an NBC report;      Figures from the federal government’s Department of Customs and Border Protection reveal that only SIX (yes 6) people on a security watchlist were detained over a six-month period at the Mexican border. State Department reports on terrorism have expressed more concern about suspects travelling in from Canada than Mexico.           This is the national emergency Trump has concocted.

former Obama border patrol chief Mark Morgan repeatedly said yesterday that a wall is effective in drastically reducing illegal crossings in every case that a barrier has been installed and further endorsed the CBP leadership in its request for additional barriers to be installed.

 

And how many people got through we don't know about?    of course none of these things matter as long as the orange man bad cabal says it doesn't

 

 

[mcambl61]

32 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

I know most Trump devotees will dismiss this article, as they will say it comes from the MSM. Most of us know that is simply deflection based on ignorance and following the wishes of the Master. But, the facts are the facts. The bottom line is that alot of white, native born Americans are real trouble makers. Not something Trump likes to discuss, as a percentage of these criminals are part of his base. 

So playing the white man bad shtick, while thinking several hundred of miles of open borders and the drug and human smuggling that goes with it should just be ignored, and then if you disagree, you are of course a racist and ignorant, because you say so.

 

 

[Berkshire]

41 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

 

I know most Trump devotees will dismiss this article, as they will say it comes from the MSM. Most of us know that is simply deflection based on ignorance and following the wishes of the Master. But, the facts are the facts. The bottom line is that alot of white, native born Americans are real trouble makers. Not something Trump likes to discuss, as a percentage of these criminals are part of his base. 

 

"As a percentage of their respective populations, there were 56 percent fewer criminal convictions of illegal immigrants than of native-born Americans in Texas in 2015," author Alex Nowrasteh writes. "The criminal conviction rate for legal immigrants was about 85 percent below the native-born rate."

The data shows similar patterns for violent crimes such as homicide and property crimes such as larceny. The study did find that immigrants in the United States illegally were more likely than native-born people to be convicted of "gambling, kidnapping, smuggling, and vagrancy." But as those crimes represented just 0.18 percent of all convictions in Texas that year, they had little effect on overall crime rates.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/06/19/two-charts-demolish-the-notion-that-immigrants-here-illegally-commit-more-crime/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.32815e42cc32

 

 

Be careful when presenting facts to a Trump supporter.  Their head might explode.

[pedro01]

52 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

 

I know most Trump devotees will dismiss this article, as they will say it comes from the MSM. Most of us know that is simply deflection based on ignorance and following the wishes of the Master. But, the facts are the facts. The bottom line is that alot of white, native born Americans are real trouble makers. Not something Trump likes to discuss, as a percentage of these criminals are part of his base. 

 

"As a percentage of their respective populations, there were 56 percent fewer criminal convictions of illegal immigrants than of native-born Americans in Texas in 2015," author Alex Nowrasteh writes. "The criminal conviction rate for legal immigrants was about 85 percent below the native-born rate."

The data shows similar patterns for violent crimes such as homicide and property crimes such as larceny. The study did find that immigrants in the United States illegally were more likely than native-born people to be convicted of "gambling, kidnapping, smuggling, and vagrancy." But as those crimes represented just 0.18 percent of all convictions in Texas that year, they had little effect on overall crime rates.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/06/19/two-charts-demolish-the-notion-that-immigrants-here-illegally-commit-more-crime/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.32815e42cc32

 

 

 

I find it amusing that this chart is used to 'prove' that illegal immigration should not be tackled.

 

But the US has 300 million people - surely it can tackle multiple issues at the same time, right? Are we saying the yellow areas should be ignored because the pink ones are bigger? Really?

 

The yellow area represents crimes that are preventable by the perpetrators not being here in the first place. The pink area does not. So the yellow area can be considered more preventable. The liberal argument therefore, seems to be "we should not prevent crimes, if unpreventable crimes are greater in number" mmmmmkaaaaay

 

The other thing this chart does not represent is the difficulty in finding and convicting a perpetrator that is invisible to the system, undocumented, with no registered address. There is no evidence in this chart that undocumented immigrants commit less crime. In fact, with no cause - there is no explanation for that effect. The conclusion drawn by liberals is "they are obviously much nicer than Americans" but it could equally be argued "they are harder to catch and convict".

 

As it is - I think this chart is a great case for a reduction in illegal immigrants. 

[Berkshire]

The results are coming in regarding Trump's prime-time address.  This headline was particularly on the mark...

Donald Trump Delivers a Wet Fart Oval Office Address

[On Tuesday night, Trump’s flaming dumpster train of distractions, lies, cons, and empty political promises flew off the rails and plunged into a mountain of burning tires in one of his worst public speeches.

After seventeen days of a government shutdown temper tantrum, Trump needed a game-changing home run of a speech to change the political climate in D.C.  He failed.]

 

https://www.thedailybeast.com/donald-trump-delivers-a-wet-fart-oval-office-address?ref=wrap

 

[pedro01]

10 minutes ago, Berkshire said:

The results are coming in regarding Trump's prime-time address.  This headline was particularly on the mark...

Donald Trump Delivers a Wet Fart Oval Office Address

[On Tuesday night, Trump’s flaming dumpster train of distractions, lies, cons, and empty political promises flew off the rails and plunged into a mountain of burning tires in one of his worst public speeches.

After seventeen days of a government shutdown temper tantrum, Trump needed a game-changing home run of a speech to change the political climate in D.C.  He failed.]

 

https://www.thedailybeast.com/donald-trump-delivers-a-wet-fart-oval-office-address?ref=wrap

 

LMAO 

 

It's all nonsense.

 

Leftist news claims it a disaster. Right wing news claims it a success.

 

Muppets on the other hand, go looking for an article that fits their bias and cut and paste it onto a discussion as if it was some indication that they were capable of forming their own opinion.

 

This is a discussion forum, not a scrap book. Jeez.

[Burma Bill]

Perhaps one day, someone will make a fortune when it is knocked down and pieces are sold off!

[Nyezhov]

3 hours ago, Lungstib said:

Figures from the federal government’s Department of Customs and Border Protection reveal that only SIX (yes 6) people on a security watchlist were detained over a six-month period at the Mexican border. State Department reports on terrorism have expressed more concern about suspects travelling in from Canada than Mexico. 

How many weren't caught?

[farcanell]

37 minutes ago, pedro01 said:

I find it amusing that this chart is used to 'prove' that illegal immigration should not be tackled.

I find it amusing that you spin the information in this way, when the link clearly states that the chart/ information disproves the argument that illegals commit more crime.... where or how does the chart infer that illegal immigration should not be tackled?

[pedro01]

3 minutes ago, farcanell said:

I find it amusing that you spin the information in this way, when the link clearly states that the chart/ information disproves the argument that illegals commit more crime.... where or how does the chart infer that illegal immigration should not be tackled?

 

I didn't spin anything.

 

You have not argued against any of my points - which are valid and uncontested. 

 

Which is why you have not argued against any of my points.

 

For further reading, I suggest you study the concepts of cause & effect. 

[Orton Rd]

TRUMP 2020, build the wall!

[stevenl]

35 minutes ago, pedro01 said:

LMAO 

 

It's all nonsense.

 

Leftist news claims it a disaster. Right wing news claims it a success.

 

Muppets on the other hand, go looking for an article that fits their bias and cut and paste it onto a discussion as if it was some indication that they were capable of forming their own opinion.

 

This is a discussion forum, not a scrap book. Jeez.

"Right wing news claims it a success."

Fox News has a very factual review of his speech, far from calling it a success. But I'm sure some of their opinion makers will come out shortly and call it a success. So no, right wing news is not calling it a success.

[stevenl]

14 minutes ago, pedro01 said:

 

I didn't spin anything.

 

You have not argued against any of my points - which are valid and uncontested. 

 

Which is why you have not argued against any of my points.

 

For further reading, I suggest you study the concepts of cause & effect. 

When you say " I find it amusing that this chart is used to 'prove' that illegal immigration should not be tackled. " yes, you're spinning.

[irwinfc]

1 hour ago, spidermike007 said:

 

I know most Trump devotees will dismiss this article, as they will say it comes from the MSM. Most of us know that is simply deflection based on ignorance and following the wishes of the Master. But, the facts are the facts. The bottom line is that alot of white, native born Americans are real trouble makers. Not something Trump likes to discuss, as a percentage of these criminals are part of his base. 

 

"As a percentage of their respective populations, there were 56 percent fewer criminal convictions of illegal immigrants than of native-born Americans in Texas in 2015," author Alex Nowrasteh writes. "The criminal conviction rate for legal immigrants was about 85 percent below the native-born rate."

The data shows similar patterns for violent crimes such as homicide and property crimes such as larceny. The study did find that immigrants in the United States illegally were more likely than native-born people to be convicted of "gambling, kidnapping, smuggling, and vagrancy." But as those crimes represented just 0.18 percent of all convictions in Texas that year, they had little effect on overall crime rates.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/06/19/two-charts-demolish-the-notion-that-immigrants-here-illegally-commit-more-crime/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.32815e42cc32

 

 

the yellow bars can really go down by curbing illegal immigration. well isn't that a good thing?

[attrayant]

This is a manufactured crisis and we have better things to do with twenty billion dollars.

 

[attrayant]

2 minutes ago, irwinfc said:

the yellow bars can really go down by curbing illegal immigration. well isn't that a good thing?

 

Have you ever wondered why the police don't pull you over for going 2 miles over the speed limit?  It's because, even though you're technically breaking the law, but they have limited resources and better things to do with them.  How massive, bloated and expensive would a police force be if it wanted have enough officers to nab every single person who jay-walked, over-tinted their car windows or didn't use their turn signal?

[Srikcir]

19 minutes ago, attrayant said:

his is a manufactured crisis and we have better things to do with twenty billion dollars.

Note that "undocumented" is not "illegal."

After apprehension if the undocumented immigrant requests asylum that person will go through a due process of law to determine asylum through documentation and eventually become "legal."

So the chart misleads the issue of "illegal" immigration that would be less than shown for undocumented immigrants.

[Srikcir]

6 hours ago, webfact said:

a wall is urgently needed to resolve what he calls a crisis at the U.S.-Mexico border

If such a crisis, why did Trump withdraw 5,000 soldiers from the border immediately after the mid-term elections.

He has, according to his own evaluation of the existence of an "open border," left the US vulnerable to invasion by terrorists, rapists and drug cartels through the southern land border for more than two years.

If such a crisis of an unsecured border exists, why is there not a cry by local and state officials along the Mexican-US border for immediate wall security?

In fact during Trump's 9pm press speech, he made no reference to declaring a National Emergency to mobilize the military to build the wall.

What has happened is that both Trump's senior advisors and Congress have shutdown Trump -  with a wall of truth.

 

[metisdead]

An inflammatory troll post has been removed. 

 

A post in violation of fair use violation has been removed. 

[huainnews]

  The report says that the $5.7billion is 'just for this year's funding'

  Heaven forbid, this government shutdown could be repeated for another 20 years!

[candide]

2 hours ago, pedro01 said:

 

I find it amusing that this chart is used to 'prove' that illegal immigration should not be tackled.

 

But the US has 300 million people - surely it can tackle multiple issues at the same time, right? Are we saying the yellow areas should be ignored because the pink ones are bigger? Really?

 

The yellow area represents crimes that are preventable by the perpetrators not being here in the first place. The pink area does not. So the yellow area can be considered more preventable. The liberal argument therefore, seems to be "we should not prevent crimes, if unpreventable crimes are greater in number" mmmmmkaaaaay

 

The other thing this chart does not represent is the difficulty in finding and convicting a perpetrator that is invisible to the system, undocumented, with no registered address. There is no evidence in this chart that undocumented immigrants commit less crime. In fact, with no cause - there is no explanation for that effect. The conclusion drawn by liberals is "they are obviously much nicer than Americans" but it could equally be argued "they are harder to catch and convict".

 

As it is - I think this chart is a great case for a reduction in illegal immigrants. 

You forget a small detail: 65% of recent undocumented immigrants are visa overstayers who entered the US legally..... 

[farcanell]

58 minutes ago, pedro01 said:

 

I didn't spin anything.

 

You have not argued against any of my points - which are valid and uncontested. 

 

Which is why you have not argued against any of my points.

 

For further reading, I suggest you study the concepts of cause & effect. 

???????????? ok then... let’s look at that.... this post above is a response to my post below

 

1 hour ago, farcanell said:

I find it amusing that you spin the information in this way, when the link clearly states that the chart/ information disproves the argument that illegals commit more crime.... where or how does the chart infer that illegal immigration should not be tackled?

My post was in response to this;

 

1 hour ago, pedro01 said:

 

I find it amusing that this chart is used to 'prove' that illegal immigration should not be tackled.

 

But the US has 300 million people - surely it can tackle multiple issues at the same time, right? Are we saying the yellow areas should be ignored because the pink ones are bigger? Really?

 

The yellow area represents crimes that are preventable by the perpetrators not being here in the first place. The pink area does not. So the yellow area can be considered more preventable. The liberal argument therefore, seems to be "we should not prevent crimes, if unpreventable crimes are greater in number" mmmmmkaaaaay

 

The other thing this chart does not represent is the difficulty in finding and convicting a perpetrator that is invisible to the system, undocumented, with no registered address. There is no evidence in this chart that undocumented immigrants commit less crime. In fact, with no cause - there is no explanation for that effect. The conclusion drawn by liberals is "they are obviously much nicer than Americans" but it could equally be argued "they are harder to catch and convict".

 

As it is - I think this chart is a great case for a reduction in illegal immigrants. 

Your para one.... you make a statement, not an argument. My post makes a counter statement, asking for you to back up your original statent, vs an argument, per say... and... in response, you failed to present anything to substantiate your statement, instead putting the burden on me, to present your argument..... so... let’s look at that.

 

your para two... you ask a question based on your interpretation of spidermikes post... that’s your interpretation of the chart/ info, not nessesarily his. (it might be, but he did not state that, so your arguably trolling)... that said, no one has suggested that one area should be ignored over another, but rather that  the worse area is being ignored, whilst the area of less imminent threat, is being demonized.

 

your para three... I’d really really like to see some tangible evidence backing up your statement about the liberal argument, as it’s totally bizarre, and assumedly your own interpretation of democratic thinking, which I have seen zero evidence of.... but hey, let’s use your argument in para four, to counter your assertions in para three, to wit... difficulty in finding and convicting immigrants... so by extension, non immigrant conviction rates should be higher, driving down  the crime rate and recidivism in that group, as they are easier to catch... mmmmokkkaaay.... works both ways, depending on your bias, not on fact.

 

your para four.... you seem to be suggesting that all non immigrant crime is accounted for in the chart, whilst immigrant crime is not, which is a bizzarre assumption. Logically one could justifiably argue that the same percentage of crime rate is reported across both groups, ergo the non immigrant rate would be even higher, in relation to the immigrant rate stated... simple math, right?.

 

as to immigrants being nicer... no this is not suggested anywhere. Instead, it’s simply raw data demonstrating that immigrants are less likely to commit crimes.... your interpretation again

 

your para five... a statement, to which I would offer a counter statement.... the data suggests that immigrants are more law abiding, which can only have a net positive effect on the population, as they set a better example to their communities (or families)

 

so... there ya go.... I’ve argued against your points... they have now been contested, and their validity is in question, if not completely debunked

 

thanks for the advise on pursuing learning into cause and effect, but respectfully, you should be more circumspect with the sarcasm.... or consider reading and compression exercises to improve your understanding of issues, which might assist your development of arguments going forward.

[billd766]

6 hours ago, Boon Mee said:

The overwhelming majority of the American people support building the Wall so Trump will be able to keep another campaign promise. 

Do you have any links, polls, independent reports to back up what you have said?

 

Or is it just another one of your unsubstantiated "opinions"?