Corbyn to call for UK election if May loses Brexit vote - Labour

[baboon]

40 minutes ago, RickBradford said:

The reason is simple: Virtually all the people in power, in government and bureaucracy, are staunch Remainers.

The Tories called the referendum, negotiated the terms of leaving and made no adequate plans for a hard Brexit. They own this entire sh!tshow lock, stock and barrel, NOBODY else.

RuamRudy is quite correct.

[RickBradford]

27 minutes ago, baboon said:

The Tories called the referendum, negotiated the terms of leaving and made no adequate plans for a hard Brexit. They own this entire sh!tshow lock, stock and barrel, NOBODY else.

RuamRudy is quite correct.

Your first paragraph echoes exactly what I said. The government (Tories) and their senior civil servants have made a complete dog's breakfast of the whole thing.

 

Your second par doesn't logically follow from the first; the poster was blaming "Brexiteers", of whom there are a minority at the top echelons of government, and none in the civil service bureaucracy, as far as anyone can tell.

 

The whole thing has been a car crash, but to claim that "Brexiteers" were at the wheel, is absurd.

 

 

[baboon]

7 minutes ago, RickBradford said:

Your first paragraph echoes exactly what I said. The government (Tories) and their senior civil servants have made a complete dog's breakfast of the whole thing.

 

Your second par doesn't logically follow from the first; the poster was blaming "Brexiteers", of whom there are a minority at the top echelons of government, and none in the civil service bureaucracy, as far as anyone can tell.

 

The whole thing has been a car crash, but to claim that "Brexiteers" were at the wheel, is absurd.

 

 

And why weren't they at the wheel? Oh yes, after the referendum went their way, they turned tail and fled. Why? Because they knew they were leading their supporters a merry dance all along, and did not want to cop for it when the reckoning came.

[RickBradford]

^^

Your tinfoil hat is obviously receiving loud and clear today .... 

[melvinmelvin]

2 hours ago, dunroaming said:

We all remember Johnsons response of "Just tell them to go and whistle for their money".  What a statesmen he is!  We need a positive relationship with the EU no matter what the outcome of Brexit is.

 

and don't forget bojo is one of the potential PM candidates frequently promoted

by this rees-mogg tory heavyweight

 

my gawd - what a laugh

 

what was it @tebee called it, omnishambles

 

 

 

 

[dunroaming]

1 hour ago, baboon said:

And why weren't they at the wheel? Oh yes, after the referendum went their way, they turned tail and fled. Why? Because they knew they were leading their supporters a merry dance all along, and did not want to cop for it when the reckoning came.

Very true.  After Cameron resigned the orchestrators of Brexit were perfectly placed to take over and deliver what they promised.  I remember the shock on the faces of Johnson's supporters when he announced that he wouldn't be running for PM even though it was a simple shoe in.  Instead he backed May for the position.  Funny that considering that it was May or Leadsom (an ardent Brexiteer) that were in the running.

 

Anyway May took it and immediately appointed the Brexiteers who hadn't run away to conduct the negotiations, even bringing Johnson into the cabinet as FS.  In fact she deliberately surrounded herself with leave supporters like Fox, Leadsom, Davis, Gove and Johnson.  She also adopted the Brexit campaigners red lines and the ridiculous "Brexit means Brexit".  After Davis inevitably  failed she then appointed another passionate Brexiteer Dominic Raab.  Obviously he failed as well while trying to deliver a Brexit that was never deliverable.  For a remainer she certainly made life difficult for herself.

[melvinmelvin]

2 hours ago, baboon said:

The Tories called the referendum, negotiated the terms of leaving and made no adequate plans for a hard Brexit. They own this entire sh!tshow lock, stock and barrel, NOBODY else.

RuamRudy is quite correct.

 

watch the pump, keep kwam dan down

 

disagree

 

this entire shit is owned by the UK parliament, not Tory, not PM

the culprit is the parliament

 

Brexit is no ordinary matter for parliament to deal with.

It is a vital matter.

Has long lasting implications for UK.

It is a pretty complex matter.

could even say - once in a lifetime matter

 

what does parliament do?

it leaves the whole Brexit portfolio to be sorted by;

 

an inexperienced PM, a PM without experience in multilateral negotiations.

a PM picked by a Tory back room meeting

a PM that very early on emitted, twice, very clear signals re her failing understanding of UK constitutional legislation

emitted very clear signals of complete lack of will to cooperate with parliament

extremely busy sunbathing in the glory of her newfound powers

and no checks and balances requested by parliament (the so called sovereign one)

 

and parliament retracts into slumber - playing thumbs - doing boomboom all

 

this week, after 2 years, parliament steps out of slumber and want a hand in the Brexit process,

too boombooming late I am afraid.

 

this omnishamble is not May's fault, not really Tory's either, 

this is the fault of the UK parliament, they have watched this process gradually going down the drain

for two years without doing anything

SHAME on UK parliament

May can't really help it, she isn't any better, not good enough - same goes for Tory - not up to it.

'

 

[baboon]

1 minute ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

watch the pump, keep kwam dan down

 

disagree

 

this entire shit is owned by the UK parliament, not Tory, not PM

the culprit is the parliament

 

Brexit is no ordinary matter for parliament to deal with.

It is a vital matter.

Has long lasting implications for UK.

It is a pretty complex matter.

could even say - once in a lifetime matter

 

what does parliament do?

it leaves the whole Brexit portfolio to be sorted by;

 

an inexperienced PM, a PM without experience in multilateral negotiations.

a PM picked by a Tory back room meeting

a PM that very early on emitted, twice, very clear signals re her failing understanding of UK constitutional legislation

emitted very clear signals of complete lack of will to cooperate with parliament

extremely busy sunbathing in the glory of her newfound powers

and no checks and balances requested by parliament (the so called sovereign one)

 

and parliament retracts into slumber - playing thumbs - doing boomboom all

 

this week, after 2 years, parliament steps out of slumber and want a hand in the Brexit process,

to boombooming late I am afraid.

 

this omnishamble is not May's fault, not really Tory's either, 

this is the fault of the UK parliament, they have watched this process gradually going down the drain

for two years without doing anything

SHAME on UK parliament

May can't really help it, she isn't any better, not good enough - same goes for Tory - not up to it.

'

 

No, it is ALL the Tories' fault. THEY called the referendum. THEY made promises do deliver the result of the referendum which was not theirs to make. THEY did the negotiating. THEY got a crap deal. THEY are still engaged in their nasty civil war holding the futures of all the peoples of the UK forefit.

THEY will be the ones who will quite possibly see the disintegration of The United Kingdom as a political entity as a result. THEM. Nobody else.

[Guest]

Have you folks noticed, the Brexit movie has been released and available at usual sources.

 

Vote Leave relied on racism. Brexit: The Uncivil War disguised that ugly truth

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jan/08/vote-leave-racism-brexit-uncivil-war-channel-4

 

 

[dunroaming]

7 minutes ago, oilinki said:

Have you folks noticed, the Brexit movie has been released and available at usual sources.

 

Vote Leave relied on racism. Brexit: The Uncivil War disguised that ugly truth

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jan/08/vote-leave-racism-brexit-uncivil-war-channel-4

 

 

Doubt Brexit supporters will be rushing to watch The Uncivil War although neither side comes out of it well. 

[melvinmelvin]

1 hour ago, baboon said:

No, it is ALL the Tories' fault. THEY called the referendum. THEY made promises do deliver the result of the referendum which was not theirs to make. THEY did the negotiating. THEY got a crap deal. THEY are still engaged in their nasty civil war holding the futures of all the peoples of the UK forefit.

THEY will be the ones who will quite possibly see the disintegration of The United Kingdom as a political entity as a result. THEM. Nobody else.

 

1 - called the referendum - YES TORY

2 - promised to deliver as voted - YES TORY

3 - carried out negotiations - YES THE TORY PM

4 - getting a crap deal - YES THE TORY PM

5 - nasty civil war / peoples of UK forefit

     don't understand - my command of the English lingo doesn't stretch that far

6 - the disintegration of UK will be seen by all, not only tories

 

in between 2 and 3 the so called sovereign parliament should have taken charge of the process

(they didn't)

and established a way forward safeguarding due diligence and national interests,

the sods didn't

 

shame on parliament

 

 

enjoy the mess

 

[baboon]

27 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

1 - called the referendum - YES TORY

2 - promised to deliver as voted - YES TORY

3 - carried out negotiations - YES THE TORY PM

4 - getting a crap deal - YES THE TORY PM

5 - nasty civil war / peoples of UK forefit

     don't understand - my command of the English lingo doesn't stretch that far

6 - the disintegration of UK will be seen by all, not only tories

 

in between 2 and 3 the so called sovereign parliament should have taken charge of the process

(they didn't)

and established a way forward safeguarding due diligence and national interests,

the sods didn't

 

shame on parliament

 

 

enjoy the mess

 

No, shame on the Tories for creating the mess in order to keep their fractured party of vested interests on the road for a little longer. This is all their doing. They broke it, they own it.

"Enjoy the mess"? The mess they created. 

[elliss]

12 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

Labour is in power in Wales and is making such a mess of things there;

 

             Put  red  flag on a donkey in wales and,  nuff said.

[Basil B]

I think the only people who are taking any notice of him are some Tories who were thinking of voting against May's option...

[anon676545345]

3 hours ago, dunroaming said:

Very true.  After Cameron resigned the orchestrators of Brexit were perfectly placed to take over and deliver what they promised.  I remember the shock on the faces of Johnson's supporters when he announced that he wouldn't be running for PM even though it was a simple shoe in.  Instead he backed May for the position.  Funny that considering that it was May or Leadsom (an ardent Brexiteer) that were in the running.

 

Anyway May took it and immediately appointed the Brexiteers who hadn't run away to conduct the negotiations, even bringing Johnson into the cabinet as FS.  In fact she deliberately surrounded herself with leave supporters like Fox, Leadsom, Davis, Gove and Johnson.  She also adopted the Brexit campaigners red lines and the ridiculous "Brexit means Brexit".  After Davis inevitably  failed she then appointed another passionate Brexiteer Dominic Raab.  Obviously he failed as well while trying to deliver a Brexit that was never deliverable.  For a remainer she certainly made life difficult for herself.

 

Davis and Raab quit as May was undermining their ability to negotiate Brexit by taking the lead herself and overriding them. Johnson was never a leaver the stupid fat buffoon was writing a newspaper article in favour of remain immediately prior to deciding to 'head' the leave campaign. He didn't expect leave to win, he thought he'd gain the spotlight going up against his old Etonian chum Cameron then bow out gracefully when leave lost having gathered support from Eurosceptics. Now the utter muppet is stuck half heartedly arguing for a cause he never believed in to attain an outcome he doesn't want.

 

That's the problem the remain campaign encompassed both the government and the opposition, pretty much the whole political elite and their financial sponsors, that's why there was never a government 'leave' plan. The European Research Group headed by Mogg is the only pro leave entity within government and May has ignored any input from them. 

[nauseus]

20 hours ago, cooked said:

Polls have shown that even more would vote leave in a second referendum than last time. Sort of "up yours boyo. we already told you".

Channel 4 must have boobed here. A relatively balanced discussion from the "deprived". It sort of blows away the touted 75% number for youngsters wanting to remain. Well done kiddies.

 

 

[dick dasterdly]

10 hours ago, dunroaming said:

Doubt Brexit supporters will be rushing to watch The Uncivil War although neither side comes out of it well. 

Very true.

 

It's extremely unlikely that any brexiteer will be rushing to watch a move entitled "Vote Leave relied on racism. Brexit: The Uncivil War disguised that ugly truth"!!

 

A very bad title that immediately indicates that the movie is likely to be extremely biased....

 

[Snow Leopard]

Corbyns fancy woman

 

 

[7by7]

5 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

Very true.

 

It's extremely unlikely that any brexiteer will be rushing to watch a move entitled "Vote Leave relied on racism. Brexit: The Uncivil War disguised that ugly truth"!!

 

A very bad title that immediately indicates that the movie is likely to be extremely biased....

 

 

What movie would that be, then?

 

The Channel 4 programme is entitled "Brexit: The Uncivil War." (I don't know if that link will work outside the UK.)

 

There is an opinion piece in the Guardian critical of the programme entitled "Vote Leave relied on racism. Brexit: The Uncivil War disguised that ugly truth"

Quote

What the film doesn’t tell us is how low he went to push this. It shouldn’t be a secret, since Vote Leave repeated the same election broadcast (now pulled from YouTube) on all terrestrial TV channels throughout the last 30 days of the campaign. Following lurid graphics representing the threat of 76 million Turks joining the EU and coming to the UK, it climaxed with a split screen showing (staying in the EU) a surly foreign man elbowing a tearful elderly white woman out of the queue in A&E, while (leaving the EU) the woman is contentedly treated without having to wait

 

[bert bloggs]

On 1/10/2019 at 9:24 AM, RuamRudy said:

More than 2 years after we lost, and a mere handful of days before Brexit is supposed to come into effect, yet you are still unable to say what the 'it' that we are supposed to live with actually is.

 

You have failed in the most dismal of ways - all your Brexit bluster has gone and you have been shown to be utterly lacking in content, ideas, imagination, foresight - Brexit has been shown to be nothing more than an empty vessel of jingoism and bilious lies. Brexit and the Brexiteers have resoundingly failed UK in the most catastrophic of ways, and when the UK falls, as it will very soon, the blame will squarely lie at your door.

you wish , and if "wishes were horses ,beggars would ride"

[tebee]

[Guest]

Yesterday I was watching / listening some BBC tv-talk show about brexit. 

 

There was one rather bright and humanistic, younger Labour member, who actually spoke the way I would expect a Labour politicians to talk. 

 

She didn't want to talk about partisan politics. She wanted to talk about the issues, which the people, she represents, have in their everyday life. 

 

If only the Labour would be smart enough to ditch Corbyn and most of his, really not too smart, shadow cabinet and the party would start over - I think Labour as well as UK could have a lot better future in front of them.

 

UK definitely needs an overhaul and cleanup of the old grumpies from it's political elite and replace them with a lot younger, a lot more open politicians, who are actually working for the people. 

 

Perhaps that happens after this brexit disaster is over. 

[melvinmelvin]

24 minutes ago, oilinki said:

Yesterday I was watching / listening some BBC tv-talk show about brexit. 

 

There was one rather bright and humanistic, younger Labour member, who actually spoke the way I would expect a Labour politicians to talk. 

 

She didn't want to talk about partisan politics. She wanted to talk about the issues, which the people, she represents, have in their everyday life. 

 

If only the Labour would be smart enough to ditch Corbyn and most of his, really not too smart, shadow cabinet and the party would start over - I think Labour as well as UK could have a lot better future in front of them.

 

UK definitely needs an overhaul and cleanup of the old grumpies from it's political elite and replace them with a lot younger, a lot more open politicians, who are actually working for the people. 

 

Perhaps that happens after this brexit disaster is over. 

 

will not happen me thinks

UK is solidly buried in medieval political management and with an electoral system suited for the 18 hundreds,

main problem is that they are boombooming proud of it, they call it long standing democratic traditions

 

nee problem, their choice

 

[Guest]

34 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

will not happen me thinks

UK is solidly buried in medieval political management and with an electoral system suited for the 18 hundreds,

main problem is that they are boombooming proud of it, they call it long standing democratic traditions

 

nee problem, their choice

 

I guess UK has reached it's peak arrogance, which caused Brexit in one way. 

 

They need to become poor again, like they were before joining the EU, to remember what co-operation between nations actually means to all of us. 

 

We'll see UK knocking on heavens.. no EU's doors once again, after a decade or so. A lot more humble UK at that point. 

[melvinmelvin]

27 minutes ago, oilinki said:

I guess UK has reached it's peak arrogance, which caused Brexit in one way. 

 

They need to become poor again, like they were before joining the EU, to remember what co-operation between nations actually means to all of us. 

 

We'll see UK knocking on heavens.. no EU's doors once again, after a decade or so. A lot more humble UK at that point. 

wrong oilinki,

 

before joining EEC UK were at the top of the world - masters of the lot including commanding some ripples in the ocean

just ask mr heath and mrs nonono

 

UK is so full of themselves that they can hardly spell humble

 

they may get a window following this Brexit mess

split of Labour in 2 and split of Tory in 2 or 3 could potentially be a godsend

that would be a potential basis for replacing fptp by smth reasonably up to date

good basis for establishing a functional rather than today's dysfunctional parliament

 

challenges are legio, not surprisingly since they have done close to shit re the parliamentary system

for ages.

 

++++

but of course,

the odds are best for just continuing in the same path - no adjustment'

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

Oh, don't hold back. Not for my sake ????

 

I'm more hopeful than you are that UK manages to reinvent it's political system at some point. Brexit just might be the right trigger to do so. 

[tebee]

 

[evadgib]

We will be leaving on 29 March.

 

[melvinmelvin]

6 hours ago, tebee said:

 

 

weird tebee,

this doesn't play at all on my laptop,

does that mean HP produces leaver computers only?

 

[Basil B]

May should go to Parliament today, say she has not enough support for her deal and she is conceding, this uncertainty is damaging the country and is withdrawing article 50, further more call Corbyn's bluff by calling a vote of confidence in her Government.