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BANGKOK 19 March 2019 21:39
Dazinoz

My Girlfriend Stateless.

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Hi all,

 

My girlfriend is having troubles getting her ID in Thailand. She is from Myanmar and has no ID or passport. All she had was a photo copy of some type of work permit when she first come here about 10 years ago. Nearly 3 years ago I helped her get her Non Thai pink ID through an agent. They are no longer issued and are being replaced by a CI (certificate of identity). Her "work permit" part of pink ID (back) has expired and she was told by her consulate here in Chiang Mai to go back to Myanmar because if she was caught she could and  probably would be deported. At this time she was told the CIs are not been issued and will start again at a later date. We have been to a number of places trying to get something to make her legal. We were at her consulate the other week and they wanted some document from Myanmar to say she was from there, but she has nothing. She really needs to go home and get something but is hesitant as she is from a hill tribe and not very wordy and usually stuffs things up when she goes to do things alone. I have seen where you can get a Thai ID if you have lived in Thailand 10 years or more but again she has no proof of that.

 

Anyone had any experience with this type of situation. Any type of valid information will be greatly appreciated.

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The first thing that you should do is to clarify if it's possible for her to get a Burmese passport:

- If she can get a passport, she isn't stateless, she just doesn't have a passport. In this case she should sneak back to Myanmar without getting arrested and sent to IDC, get a passport and then a visa for Thailand.

- If she can't get a passport in Myanmar, then she is stateless. Stateless people in Thailand have nearly no rights, and i think currently there is not much she can do about it, maybe in the future this will change: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_nationality_law#Statelessness

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23 minutes ago, allane said:

From what the OP has said, I think my idea is not going to work, but I offer it here, in case I am wrong.

if she is ruled to be eligible for a Burmese passport, that likely can be issued at their consulate in Chiang Mai or Embassy in Bangkok. The problem is that she has nothing to prove she is Burmese.

Might the Embassy accept her pink Thai ID card as evidence that she is not Thai (and hence, Burmese), if she can corroborate that in some other way) ? Does she know any Burmese citizen, legally in Thailand, who knows her well enough to sign an affadavit as to who she is, and where in Burma she comes from ?

Possibly a Burmese language test, written and spoken ?

Unfortunately the consulate want documents to prove she is from Myanmar, which she doesn't have. She sowed them her pink ID and motor bike license but no good. She does not know anyone and I have emailed a few groups of people supposedly there to help Myanmar people but they don't reply and she can not read or write.

 

I did read a story on Stickman by a British guy in a similar situation and it took a fair bit for his girlfriend to do. Unfortunately my gf does not have the patience, understanding or ability to do alone. We have used agents before but she usually just gets ripped off. Recently she was given a name of some \one in Wiang Haeng that could get her ID at a cost of 47,000 baht. We went there and spent 4 days but just got stuffed around. Fortunately we did not pay then any money.

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58 minutes ago, jackdd said:

The first thing that you should do is to clarify if it's possible for her to get a Burmese passport:

- If she can get a passport, she isn't stateless, she just doesn't have a passport. In this case she should sneak back to Myanmar without getting arrested and sent to IDC, get a passport and then a visa for Thailand.

- If she can't get a passport in Myanmar, then she is stateless. Stateless people in Thailand have nearly no rights, and i think currently there is not much she can do about it, maybe in the future this will change: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_nationality_law#Statelessness

Thats what we have been trying to find out but keep going around in circles. We go somewhere and talk to her in Thai and I can not understand then she can't relay that information back to me as she forgets very fast or doesn't understand.

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So it seems to be uncertain if she can get Burmese citizenship.

In this case i would recommend that you ask her what her preferred outcome is and then try to go down this path, to me it sounds like you tried a mix of both:

1) Being recognized as Burmese

2) Being recognized as stateless in Thailand

If it were me i would go for 1), because 2) doesn't really help with anything

 

If she decides for 1) then you have to do research in Myanmar. First you have to figure out where she was born / lived in Myanmar

Was her birth registered anywhere? Many years ago on a mountain probably not, but who knows.

Did she ever do anything official in Myanmar which might have left official documents anywhere?

Are her parents still alive? Do they have any documents to prove that they are Burmese?

These are just the first things that came into my mind, probably many other things to check.

All this is of course very difficult if she can not legally cross the border and can't read / write the language. If she grew up on a mountain she might not even speak burmese properly, so when she talks with people in the city they might not really be willing to help this "foreigner"

Edited by jackdd

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34 minutes ago, jackdd said:

So it seems to be uncertain if she can get Burmese citizenship.

In this case i would recommend that you ask her what her preferred outcome is and then try to go down this path, to me it sounds like you tried a mix of both:

1) Being recognized as Burmese

2) Being recognized as stateless in Thailand

If it were me i would go for 1), because 2) doesn't really help with anything

 

If she decides for 1) then you have to do research in Myanmar. First you have to figure out where she was born / lived in Myanmar

Was her birth registered anywhere? Many years ago on a mountain probably not, but who knows.

Did she ever do anything official in Myanmar which might have left official documents anywhere?

Are her parents still alive? Do they have any documents to prove that they are Burmese?

These are just the first things that came into my mind, probably many other things to check.

All this is of course very difficult if she can not legally cross the border and can't read / write the language. If she grew up on a mountain she might not even speak burmese properly, so when she talks with people in the city they might not really be willing to help this "foreigner"

She can speak and understand Thai better than she can Burmese. Her father is still alive and lives in a village not far from the army border crossing near Doi Angkan. Don't know her village name. On further "interrogation" apparently she wasn't even born in Burma and doesn't know where she came from. She did go back to her Burma home a few years back with my assistance but nothing happened. I thought it may have just been a money grab, and probably was, but now things are tightening and it is getting difficult and scary for her. I have been trying to get her to go home again and try to get what info/documents she can but she is scared to do so for a number of reasons, and I am sure some of which I don't know. I am really getting lost as to what to do.

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"Nearly 3 years ago I helped her get her Non Thai pink ID through an agent. They are no longer issued and are being replaced by a CI (certificate of identity). Her "work permit" part of pink ID (back) has expired and she was told by her consulate here in Chiang Mai to go back to Myanmar because if she was caught she could and  probably would be deported."

 

Deported for working illegally?

 

Deported for anything else?

 

 

 

 

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This is not meant to be negative. Her background seems very unclear. Is it possible that she is Rohingya. If that was case her situation would be even more difficult. Given that they have very limited rights with Myanmar. Im not sure, but I don't think they can even obtain pp. 

Certainly sounds like she is between rock and hard place. Perhaps might explain why so few replies to the OP. The "stateless" option I can't imagine would count for much in Thailand. 

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1 minute ago, Enoon said:

 

"Nearly 3 years ago I helped her get her Non Thai pink ID through an agent. They are no longer issued and are being replaced by a CI (certificate of identity). Her "work permit" part of pink ID (back) has expired and she was told by her consulate here in Chiang Mai to go back to Myanmar because if she was caught she could and  probably would be deported."

 

Deported for working illegally?

 

Deported for anything else?

 

 

 

 

She has not worked for 4 years as I have been looking after her but her consulate told her she could be deported for no valid ID.

 

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2 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

This is not meant to be negative. Her background seems very unclear. Is it possible that she is Rohingya. If that was case her situation would be even more difficult. Given that they have very limited rights with Myanmar. Im not sure, but I don't think they can even obtain pp. 

Certainly sounds like she is between rock and hard place. Perhaps might explain why so few replies to the OP. The "stateless" option I can't imagine would count for much in Thailand. 

She could be anything. Maybe I used the term stateless incorrectly but just meaning she has no true ID. Well she has the pink ID but because on it says she is from Myanmar and thats now invalid.

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2 minutes ago, Dazinoz said:

She has not worked for 4 years as I have been looking after her but her consulate told her she could be deported for no valid ID.

 

 

And the only documentation that would allow her to get a new one has to be obtained in Burma?

 

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1 minute ago, Enoon said:

 

And the only documentation that would allow her to get a new one has to be obtained in Burma?

 

I don't know and that why I am asking on here for people with experience in this. We just keep going around in circles.

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2 minutes ago, Dazinoz said:

I don't know and that why I am asking on here for people with experience in this. We just keep going around in circles.

 

You need to accompany her back to her "Burma home" and find her origins.

 

Start from there.

 

Maybe a little "creativity" required to get her over the border.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Enoon said:

 

You need to accompany her back to her "Burma home" and find her origins.

 

Start from there.

 

Maybe a little "creativity" required to get her over the border.

 

 

I did accompany her to the Thai/Burma army crossing but was told I can't cross. Honestly if we crossed at Techalek, which is probably the closest I don't know if she could find our way to the village.

 

Obviously my concern is getting myself into trouble as well as getting her ID. She once told me it would not be safe for me (farang) going to her village.

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