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BANGKOK 19 January 2019 07:38
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Britain's Hammond says no-deal Brexit would harm its people

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2 hours ago, nontabury said:

Well thanks to the remoaners, it’s possible that we will soon find out.

Just a point of process here.

1) There can only be an election if May looses a vote of confidence - there is no sign of this happening, the DUP have said they would support her.

2) Corbyn is a leaver - always has been, he's not going to win a GE anyway, but if he goes into an election still supporting Brexit a recent YouGov poll shows him loosing very badly indeed. 

3) You can't  thank remainers or leavers for election results, people vote for different parties on many different issues, and most of them appear utterly sick of the whole Brexit mess. There are plenty of LP leavers mainly among their lunatic far left fringe, and plenty of Tory remainers.

Edited by Nigel Garvie

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2 hours ago, nontabury said:

 

 I think it’s quite appropriate for those who not only refuse to accept the Democratic decision of the majority, but also want to undermine the people’s vote.

So, what you are saying is "If we children don't get what we want, we'll be calling all of your other people by low grade names!"

 

That's not democracy. 

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57 minutes ago, Nigel Garvie said:

...

2) Corbyn is a leaver - always has been, he's not going to win a GE anyway, but if he goes into an election still supporting Brexit a recent YouGov poll shows him loosing very badly indeed. 

3...

Where Corbyn could win is if we leave in some sort of chaos and it all goes very badly. He will say "this isn't the way I would have left"

Parliament disintegrates, we have a general election.

I can see him getting voted in just to get back at the Tories as they take the flak for a bad, disorganized Brexit. Not that his would have been any better, but he didn't give us the one we got.

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3 minutes ago, oilinki said:

So, what you are saying is "If we children don't get what we want, we'll be calling all of your other people by low grade names!"

 

That's not democracy. 

"Plebiscites are exercises not in democracy but in crude majoritarianism. "

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Just now, tebee said:

"Plebiscites are exercises not in democracy but in crude majoritarianism. "

Those folks, who are so keen to show their power are really just few people.

They represent the sill 5-7% of the people, who once thought it would be so cool to be against everything. 

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3 minutes ago, nauseus said:

No, that's remainers.

A second referendum would not be undemocratic even though it would most likely would see a shift just sufficient to produce a Remain vote.

 

Demographic turnover alone has moved the UK to a Remain majority. Given the extreme age-gradient in voting on 2016 (the steepest ever in a UK-wide vote), the number of old Leavers who have died since 23/6/16 and their replacement with newly 18 Remainers is enough on its own to change the result. No one even needs to have changed their minds since 2016, though surveys suggest that some have done so.

 

More pertinently, having a vote that compares two realities: the negotiated Withdrawal Agreement and Remaining in the EU, is a far more valid exercise in democracy than a vote in which, perhaps not surprisingly, thought that having cake and eating it was a good (and feasible) idea.

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18 minutes ago, tebee said:

A second referendum would not be undemocratic even though it would most likely would see a shift just sufficient to produce a Remain vote.

 

Demographic turnover alone has moved the UK to a Remain majority. Given the extreme age-gradient in voting on 2016 (the steepest ever in a UK-wide vote), the number of old Leavers who have died since 23/6/16 and their replacement with newly 18 Remainers is enough on its own to change the result. No one even needs to have changed their minds since 2016, though surveys suggest that some have done so.

 

More pertinently, having a vote that compares two realities: the negotiated Withdrawal Agreement and Remaining in the EU, is a far more valid exercise in democracy than a vote in which, perhaps not surprisingly, thought that having cake and eating it was a good (and feasible) idea.

Another deluded undertaker.

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8 hours ago, Nigel Garvie said:

Just a point of process here.

1) There can only be an election if May looses a vote of confidence - there is no sign of this happening, the DUP have said they would support her.

2) Corbyn is a leaver - always has been, he's not going to win a GE anyway, but if he goes into an election still supporting Brexit a recent YouGov poll shows him loosing very badly indeed. 

3) You can't  thank remainers or leavers for election results, people vote for different parties on many different issues, and most of them appear utterly sick of the whole Brexit mess. There are plenty of LP leavers mainly among their lunatic far left fringe, and plenty of Tory remainers.

 

to 1) or if May calls a snappy herself

 

to 2) wouldn't offer many farthings for polls produced in UK anymore,

        would like to see that scenario assessed by non UK political expert commentators

 

to 3)  yes, so it appears

 

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9 hours ago, nontabury said:

 

 I think it’s quite appropriate for those who not only refuse to accept the Democratic decision of the majority, but also want to undermine the people’s vote.

It was a democratic opinion poll. Parliament is not bound to act upon it. Have you worked how our representative democracy works yet?

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54 minutes ago, Grouse said:

It was a democratic opinion poll. Parliament is not bound to act upon it. Have you worked how our representative democracy works yet?

I for one, am not prepared to go round in circles yet again on this (IMO) diversion tactic.

 

We've been through it time and time again ☹️.

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4 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

I for one, am not prepared to go round in circles yet again on this (IMO) diversion tactic.

 

We've been through it time and time again ☹️.

 

thread is going Thai DD,

do as in LoS - rote learning

 

 

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1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

I for one, am not prepared to go round in circles yet again on this (IMO) diversion tactic.

 

We've been through it time and time again ☹️.

Just stating facts. At least one contributor seems to have trouble assimilating these. I'm not justifying anything; merely stating how things work in the U.K. No point howling at the moon!

 

One thing's for sure, we will all more careful who we choose as MPs in future!

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18 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Just stating facts. At least one contributor seems to have trouble assimilating these. I'm not justifying anything; merely stating how things work in the U.K. No point howling at the moon!

 

One thing's for sure, we will all more careful who we choose as MPs in future!

I suspect, only at the next election - when voters take notice of how their MPs acted - compared to how their constituents voted.....

 

After that, it will depend on what happens in the close future re. brexit, and just how much this charade has annoyed voters!

 

Will there be a resurrection of UKIP, or will even more voters not bother to vote as they know there's no point?

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9 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

I suspect, only at the next election - when voters take notice of how their MPs acted - compared to how their constituents voted.....

 

After that, it will depend on what happens in the close future re. brexit, and just how much this charade has annoyed voters!

 

Will there be a resurrection of UKIP, or will even more voters not bother to vote as they know there's no point?

You still don't seem to understand this crucial point. You choose an MP who you believe will act in your best interest. That may not be what you say. Think about that. Please. I'm not saying it is right or wrong but that is how the system is designed to work.

 

Taken to the limit you indicate that we should vote directly on everything. Easily achieved technically. I am happy to appoint someone to act on my behalf who has all the resources and back up to take sensible decisions; a bit like a company director.

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