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U.S. embassy income letter redux -- officializing social security benefits documents


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4 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

it seems to me the U.S. embassy rules as far as far as provided services would be expected to be the SAME.

Recalling that the US does not have an Ambassador to Thailand as yet, the new Thailand immigration rules for proof of income may not be getting the attention it needs from the US State Department in DC where eight of ten top jobs are unfilled.

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26 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Yeah and no.

The majority of nations are still issuing income letters, those letters are still accepted by Thailand immigration, and armed with those letters no specific import of monies is required at all. So you're not really right for now anyway. 

I would venture to guess those three embassy make up 50% or better of retirees here?

At this point it does not matter really. Going to have to pony up the funds, no ands if's or buts about it, if you want to stay in Thailand for one more year.

Edited by garyk
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6 minutes ago, ocddave said:

Which means you are going to have to get it notarized locally before sending to the next step, sort of like I had to do with my Marriage Certificate

Yes-this would work as far as an official notarization - However- time consuming and cumbersome and who know if Thai Imm would accept.

 

Reading the Citizens Service section of the US Embassy Website in Columbia- it appears they are working with Colombian Imm as the Us Embassy provides  an income letter- an Award letter- etc- which 'certifies'  income from  US Social Security- the military- veterans department.  I am sure they either have the applicant fill out a general affidavit or have one specifically for this purpose. At some point- I am sure the applicant has to show their award letter from Us Social Security etc.

 

The question remains why is the US Embassy in Columbia and possibly Peru able to produce this type of letter and call it certification when the US Embassy refuses to do the same. Why wouldn't the Us Embassy look at the same letters with letterheads and say the same thing. 

 

The following again from the US Embassy in Columbia- quoting-

 

On the day of your notary appointment you will need to present:

  • Original or copy of valid U.S. Passport
  • Documentation from Social Security, Veterans, private pension from the current year indicating the amount you receive or bank statements from the last three months showing the monthly amount you receive
  • Notary fee

 

Again- why can't the Us Embassy Bangkok do this and Columbia can?  I believe Us citizens deserve an answer.

 

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Good Work!!

It has been my experience over the years that if a person wants to get an Embassy's (or State Department's) attention they have to take their case to their State representatives in Congress (Senators / Representatives), because they control the department's appropriation.

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I retired at 45 and probably won't take SS til I'm 70 so what should I tell Thai immigration for the 25 years in between when I am not collecting SS?  Personally, I have another pension but most people don't.  But with the 50 year old rule that didn't matter either.  Income affidavits where brilliant. Whoever stopped them was an idiot.  The first time I get to use one this month will be my last chance to use one.  And the OP is forgetting these SA countries want expats.  They recognize the value.  If you think Thailand does you have not been paying attention.  Thais hate foreigners and the message could not be more clear.  I am only here because I am committed to my partner and every other country including mine treat her like a criminal so we can barely take a holiday without an anal cavity inspection.  Maybe if Thais started treating other countries with respect they would be treated the same way.  No time soon I am sure.

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What everybody does is their own business. But, the air sucks so I had to stay home today and do my chores and Im going out tonight, so I wrote this up for whoever wants to use it. Copy and paste into Google Docs or Word, edit as you see fit (you may need 3 or 4, or just 3, or just 4, or both), make it look pretty (I dont format, Im not a secretary) and good luck. Maybe even have it translated. Since I'm a part timer and dont have to worry until January, Ill probably give this a shot knowing full well if they say no, I can just split and get an SETV. Or not, if someone gets turned down. Im lucky enough to be above their threshold, if you arent, you may have to have baht in the bank.

 

If you dont think it will work, thats fine too, post your doom and gloom. But if it does work, you owe me a can of Pringles.

AFFIDAVIT AND CERTIFICATION OF INCOME


 

KINGDOM OF THAILAND                                              )

BANGKOK METROPOLIS                                              ) SS

EMBASSY OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA     )


 

 ___________________________, being duly sworn, deposes and says:

 

  1. I am a citizen of the United States of America, bearing Passport Number _____________, issued at ____________________ on the _____ day of _____, _______, valid until the _________day of __________, ________.  A true and correct photocopy of my Passport is annexed hereto and incorporated herein as Attachment “A”.

  2. I reside at ____________________________________________________.

  3. I hereby swear and certify that I receive the amount of __________________ per month as Income paid to me by the Social Security Administration of the United States of America. A true and correct copy of my official Benefits Statement as provided to me by the United States Social Security Administration evidencing that Income is annexed hereto and incorporated herein as Attachment “B”.

  4. I hereby swear and certify that I receive the amount of __________________ per year as Income paid to me by _____________________. A true and correct copy of my official United States of America Internal Revenue Service Form 1099 as provided to me in accordance with the laws of the United States is annexed hereto and incorporated herein as Attachment “C”

  5. I hereby swear and certify that based on the foregoing, I have monthly income of no less than ___________ per month.

  6. My purpose in making this Affidavit and Certification is to allow *insert whatever the formal name of Immigration is* to determine my eligibility  for *insert whatever visa*.

  7. I understand and acknowledge that any false statement made in this Affidavit and Certification is an offense that makes me subject to criminal prosecution under the Laws of the Kingdom of Thailand.

  8. I understand and acknowledge that any false statement made in this Affidavit and Certification is an offense that makes me subject to criminal prosecution under the Laws of the United States.

  9. I therefore swear and certify, that the contents of this Certification and Affidavit are true, accurate and complete.

 

______________________________Signature

 

On this _____________ day of _________, 20_, before me______________________a Consul of the United States Embassy, Bangkok, Thailand, duly commissioned and qualified under the Laws of the United States to administer oaths, personally appeared _____________________, who, being administered an oath, duly swore that he is the person named herein and that the contents of this Certification and Affidavit are true, accurate and complete.

 

______________________________

Notary Public etc

Look at the old income affidavits to see what mumbo jumbo they put here


 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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OK just to note that the official now defunct Income affidavit was not a notary statement from the US citizen but a letter from the US Embassy/Consulate addressed directly to Thai Immigration.

Edited by JLCrab
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Wow, a 2.8% raise in SS. Great it only took 42years of paying in a total 13% tax on earnings for this card holder. Did anyone get the new super duper security approved by all branches of the issuing government as announced by that government in 2018?

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Wow, a 2.8% raise in SS. Great it only took 42years of paying in a total 13% tax on earnings for this card holder. Did anyone get the new super duper security approved by all branches of the issuing government as announced by that government in 2018?

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9 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

OK just to note that the official now defunct Income affidavit was not a notary statement from the US citizen but a letter from the US Embassy/Consulate direct to Thai Immigration.

Really? I swore to mine. A letter isnt sworn.

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5 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

A letter is addressed as in Dear Sir/Madam:

Gee whiz add dear sir madam to what I wrote if it makes you happy. 

 

They are either going to accept it or not. Maybe you can suggest an alternative other than transfering 65K or depositing 800K?

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I once submitted a revised income affidavit -- I changed things like dollars to baht and the 'every month' thing and with the US embassy logo -- and the US Embassy staff said it would not be accepted by Thai IMM if ANY changes were made to the affidavit. But if you want to go ahead good luck to you.

Edited by JLCrab
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18 minutes ago, Laorex said:

Wow, a 2.8% raise in SS. Great it only took 42years of paying in a total 13% tax on earnings for this card holder. Did anyone get the new super duper security approved by all branches of the issuing government as announced by that government in 2018?

You only paid 7%. Your employer paid the other halfish

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1 hour ago, Thaidream said:

Yes-this would work as far as an official notarization - However- time consuming and cumbersome and who know if Thai Imm would accept.

Yes, I brought that up in the previous thread as well. But its really the only way you are going to legally certify a document from the US, you may get someone in the Thai Immigration Office to accept almost anything, but without the full certification of a document from its inception to its final destination, nobody is going to listen. I am actually surprised that Sworn Statements are accepted at all, so we should have felt lucky all this time.

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While all the conjecture about what Thai immigration might take...we do know what they will take.   Been moving baht into Thai bank every month inorder to have the 800K before current visa expires.   Do not try to beat the system...resistance is futile! 

Edited by Puchaiyank
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1 minute ago, JLCrab said:

I once submitted a revised income affidavit -- I changed things like dollars to baht and the 'every month thing and with the US embassy logo -- and the US Embassy staff said it would not be accepted buy Thai IMM if ANY changes were made to the affidavit. But if you want to go ahead good luck to you.

And was your revised edition accepted by Thai Immigration?

 

But why am I arguing. My post is clear. Folks can do whatever they want. It doesnt affect me one way or the other. I have been looking at the Adriatic coast for the summer myself.

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1 minute ago, JLCrab said:

No upon the advice of the US Embassy Vice Consul I used the standard unedited version I also had with me.

So you never tried? Right. Carry on. Hopefully you can come up with something that MAY help folks who dont want to go the 65/800 route. Like I said, Im set. 

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5 minutes ago, Nyezhov said:

Like I said, Im set. 

So am I -- I didn't say don't give it a try and ThaiDream and I had this discussion about maybe using the blank affidavit form in November. I am familiar with the blank form as I used it when my father died 10 years ago and some things had to be notarized.

Edited by JLCrab
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8 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

I once submitted a revised income affidavit -- I changed things like dollars to baht and the 'every month' thing and with the US embassy logo -- and the US Embassy staff said it would not be accepted by Thai IMM if ANY changes were made to the affidavit. But if you want to go ahead good luck to you.

It is not the same affidavit- the affidavit you did was a special embassy produced template to be used  specifically for Thai Immigration.

 

The General Affadavit- is a form with your basic information plus a large area where a citizen writes in the information they want to attest to- The Vice Consul reviews the info- if OK- you swear it is correct and they sign it.  You can find the blank form at the US Embassy Website.

 

The question of this thread is why can the Us Embassy Columbia- agree to view a citizen's  documentation (Social Security; military pension etc) and issue a document that certifies this  income and the US Embassy Thailand states they cannot do this or will not do this .(US Embassy Columbia/Citizens Services/Notarial s for reference)

 

It appears the US Embassy in Bangkok is either misinformed or simply refuses the same service that the US Embassy in Columbia provides. 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

The question of this thread is why can the Us Embassy Columbia

I don't have the slightest idea -- maybe the people in Bangkok don't know that they can do it and need to be enlightened.

Edited by JLCrab
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10 minutes ago, Nyezhov said:

So you never tried? Right. Carry on.

So you are saying maybe if the US Embassy Vice Consul advised that any adulteration to the affidavit will be refused by Thai Immigration I should have said well go ahead and notarize it anyway and I'll give it the old try.

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9 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

So you are saying maybe if the US Embassy Vice Consul advised that any adulteration to the affidavit will be refused by Thai Immigration I should have said well go ahead and notarize it anyway and I'll give it the old try.

Well you had no need to do it then did you. Now, some folks have no choice. Maybe the old college try is worth it, maybe its better just to pack up and leave.

 

But hey, on behalf of all who may need the Hail Mary, thanks for your help. 

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22 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

The question of this thread is why can the Us Embassy Columbia- agree to view a citizen's  documentation (Social Security; military pension etc) and issue a document that certifies this  income and the US Embassy Thailand states they cannot do this or will not do this .(US Embassy Columbia/Citizens Services/Notarial s for reference)

 

It appears the US Embassy in Bangkok is either misinformed or simply refuses the same service that the US Embassy in Columbia provides. 

 

Regardless of what the US Embassy - Bangkok said about the State Dept saying their couldn't/shouldn't issue the income affidavit that's all BS.  They stopped because Thai Immigration wanted them to really verify the income which the embassy truly can not do.     

 

Nor can the US Embassy Columbia verify a person's income.,  but apparently Columbia Immigration is happy enough with the income letter issued....do not require verification....probably have fewer issues with some Americans stretching the truth regarding true income....probably a lot fewer Americans in Columbia compared to Thailand.  Because like you said the US Embassy -Colombia still issue income letters for folks getting retirement visa/extensions in Columbia.

 

https://co.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/notaries-public/

image.png.0661e1cd366ee4fdf537b9f28e168efc.png

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