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BANGKOK 21 February 2019 06:24
4MyEgo

Corruption or not corruption

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Corruption is you paying them to do the job they are already paid to do.

 

This is a bit more grey. On the face of it he’s probably just moonlighting as a photo printing service. So long as he isn’t the only photo printing service you can use then that should be fine and it isn’t corruption to me. 

 

The big question is whether that 500 baht also goes to anything else which gets you around the rules or gets you to the front of the queue? That would be corruption. 

Edited by samran
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9 minutes ago, samran said:

Corruption is you paying them to do the job they are already paid to do.

... this variant borders on extortion - if not explicitly so - when you have a life/family here based on following the published laws/rules.

 

"Nice wife and/or kids you've got there.  Shame if couldn't see her/them any more..."

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2 hours ago, JackThompson said:

... this variant borders on extortion - if not explicitly so - when you have a life/family here based on following the published laws/rules.

 

"Nice wife and/or kids you've got there.  Shame if couldn't see her/them any more..."

If they ever tried that on me, we would go to plan C as my wife and children have dual passports and as the saying goes, have money, will travel.

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20 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Maybe it is corrupt; however, consider the alternative. Being screwed around for hours or days until the ducks are all in a neat row.

I finished up having to pay an Australian migration agent $1200 (AUD) to get a tourist visa for my Thai GF to go to Australia on holiday. Everything was legal, but it was also much more expensive than anything I've paid in Thailand.

Woah!

They saw you coming I'm afraid.

 

$1200 for a $150 visa.

That's outrageous.

 

They're very simple to do as well.

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21 minutes ago, Will27 said:

Woah!

They saw you coming I'm afraid.

 

$1200 for a $150 visa.

That's outrageous.

 

They're very simple to do as well.

They are not simple to do if a Thai employee in the Australian Consulate in Bangkok decides to get picky, even though I consider I supplied ample evidence of support and even a copy of a return flight booking. My first application was rejected. There is no avenue of appeal from their decision, even when it is dead wrong. Bureaucrats don't like the embarrassment of having a decision overturned, so it's simpler to just block the avenue.

Any other miracles of hindsight you would like to share with me?

 

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13 minutes ago, baansgr said:

I always thought the Thai requirements for visas and extensions were quite simple and accommodating, however different offices can make the simplest thing an issue just to assert their authority, expect kickbacks or just because they damn right hate us. The increasing nonsensical BS they want for marriage/dependent extensions is ludicrous, different coloured shorts or shirts, every room pictures. What should and can be an easy process is made extremely hard for no other reason than feeling superior....next thing they will have whistles, thats a true sign of importance in thai culture

I have to admit, while I have never felt welcome in the IO, I simply put it down to their culture, i.e. I can say the same for anyone, family member ot not that visits our place, no hello or anything like that, they just go on about their business chatting to the wife, except for someone who is making a delivery for something I have purchased, they give you the usual wai, which is similar as shaking your hand, and warm, so I suppose it is an imbedded thing where they don't acknowledge your presence but know your there, so I suppose if I need to feel welcomed, I should learn the lingo, which I won't because I am have no use for it or don't wish to put myself to that trouble in my twilight years, my choice.

 

The above said, I have to give the IO credit as they have never made it difficult for me and have always been pleasant to the wife, regardless if I kind of feel awkward not being able to engage in the conversation and have only had to pay something once before, i.e. tea/petrol money for them to do the return trip ( 3 hours) for a couple of photos with them when I did the application 3 years ago.

 

One as to remember we are guests in their country regardless if some Thai's do not make us feel welcome, although when I weigh it all up, I know I am better of here then the city I came from with all it's bureaucracies and controlled state mentality, and the fact that I would have to work to survive if I had to return there.

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Op, it is just a service offered, not in the rule book of course, but a service well worth the money.

I do not mind paying a little for a service when it saves a long trip to the IO. Remember, our time is valuable.

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I would have just paid  gladly & never mentioned it to anyone ,,,, think

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Here is the problem, westerners look for all of the corrupt things happening here and only see them as corrupt. Some, based on principle, refuse to participate. Life is harder for these people. But ALL of Thailand is corrupt. Every branch of every government at every level. Every policeman, every politician, everyone, everywhere. Where we see corruption, it’s just a way of life for them.

 

Don’t look at anything as corrupt (or question if it is) and make judgment. Assume it all is and accept that this is how Thais operate. In most cases it’s not corruption to them, it’s life. Wealthy Thais know this better than the rest, it’s why most of them are wealthy.

 

Once you fully understand this and accept it, and work within their rules (corrupt or not), life gets unbelievably easy here. Backs get scratched, money trumps everything, and everyone is on the take. EVERYONE. You just have to learn how to approach it without offending them, because despite everyone being on the take, there is a right and a wrong way to do it. The right way is the Thai way. The wrong way is the western way.

 

Leave your western values in the west and forget about if it’s right or wrong to play on their level, because they don’t care if you lose. In fact, they hope you do and have set everything up here so they always have the upper hand. So play on their level, get your hands dirty, and life is so, so much easier. 

 

Take notes from wealthy Thais if you know any. 

 

No no idea why I wrote all of that. 🤔

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On 1/12/2019 at 4:39 PM, Lacessit said:

Maybe it is corrupt; however, consider the alternative. Being screwed around for hours or days until the ducks are all in a neat row.

I finished up having to pay an Australian migration agent $1200 (AUD) to get a tourist visa for my Thai GF to go to Australia on holiday. Everything was legal, but it was also much more expensive than anything I've paid in Thailand.

Why couldn't your gf go to the Aussie embassy/consulate and apply for an Oz tourist visa like how we all go to the Thai consulate to apply for a Thai tourist visa? Surely lots of people are doing this all over the world at Aussie embassies/consulates....

 

As to the OP's question, yes it sure is corruption by gaining a favour to circumvent the proper channels in a fast-track method with a small 500 baht bribe.

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I'd say the I.O did you a massive favour for small money and in your shoes I would have been extremely grateful. The money went to their New Year Party Fund not into his own pocket, he went out of his way to save you a massive and expensive round trip in your own words, which he didn't need to do. He wasn't being capricious or pedantic, YOU were at fault for not providing the up-to-date photos. Again by your own admission you have been in Thailand long enough to know the rules for the Annual extension based on marriage, the copies required, the photos, the forms, You didn't follow the rules and he was being really good to help you out. Some sour-faced I.O's would have rejected your application out-of-hand and told you to come back when you had all the requirements to hand. So corruption, absolutely not, a private agreement to bail YOU out of the doo-doo yes, I only hope when I do mine next month I find an I.O like yours! You are one lucky man - be grateful! 

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2 hours ago, Lacessit said:

They are not simple to do if a Thai employee in the Australian Consulate in Bangkok decides to get picky, even though I consider I supplied ample evidence of support and even a copy of a return flight booking. My first application was rejected. There is no avenue of appeal from their decision, even when it is dead wrong. Bureaucrats don't like the embarrassment of having a decision overturned, so it's simpler to just block the avenue.

Any other miracles of hindsight you would like to share with me?

 

You should've put more time into the application rather than blaming Thai employee's

and everyone else.

 

FWIW, when an Aussie provides financial support for the applicant, the decision to grant

or refuse is reviewed by an Aussie member of staff.

 

That's not to say mistakes don't happen, but by and large it's an easy process with a high grant rate. 

Edited by Will27

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I would consider this IO's offer an incredibly kind gesture. That mere 500 baht saved you another days time and gas

and the time he spent dealing with the photo's (printing out and placing in the file) was easily worth the money. I do

not consider this corruption at all. Almost anywhere else you would not have been afforded this kindness. Good for

you.

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500 is welcomed to not travel to do a repeat visit that you only go to hand in photos. As long as the job is done that is. 

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