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BANGKOK 20 February 2019 18:00
Genericnic

CM air pollution not so bad

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So transportation is bad for you but open burning in the PM2.5 scale is just dire? Is that correct?

 

4 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

1910667276_PM2.5SourcesinThailandperGreenpeace.jpg.cc1043096d51667630f19338eb0302b5.jpg

 

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3 minutes ago, totally thaied up said:

So transportation is bad for you but open burning in the PM2.5 scale is just dire? Is that correct?

 

 

I think I agree with what you're saying... Except, transportation per se isn't "bad for you."  What's bad is vehicles (diesel! and others) that aren't equipped with modern technology to prevent or limit a lot of harmful exhaust pipe pollution.

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Total cop out from a Thai apologist-as usual.
 
It is ALWAYS somebody else.
 
Whilst they sit on top of their mountains of garbage and their polluted seas and moan and moan "but we are too poor.."
 
 
*eye-roll, sigh* how am I apologizing for Thailand? I am politely ridiculing the Thai government and academics.

But I am also trying to focus people on the truth - if US, PRC and India do not reverse course now, we are all stuffed, including Thailand.

I doubt any TV regulars will act on ANY of the chatter posted on TV, but if our readers were to take action on ONE thing in their lifetimes, it should be this problem.

https://www.ipcc.ch/sr15/

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1 minute ago, SuperTed said:

if US, PRC and India do not reverse course now, we are all stuffed, including Thailand

In 2008 I sat on a hilltop in China, about 5 hours drive West of Shanghai. We were having a tea break and I walked up to the top of this big hill to have a look at the surrounding Countryside. Rice fields were everywhere, yet I could not get over how much pollution I saw in the air. My business counterpart said to me this was a huge problem and just by looking at the fact I could not see the skyline on a very clear day, he was right. This particular vision of that day stuck with me for the rest of my life.

 

I often wonder at times, what the outlook from that hill is like today. The pollution I saw that day far outweighed the worst I have seen in here during burnoff season and I was told, this was 'normal'. Pretty sad state of affairs is all I can say.

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2 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

There are multiple sources of AQI data out there... The Thai government (Pollution Control District) has a website for it, there's AQICN.org, and then there's sites that gather and report private sensor data.

 

In looking at any data, you want to make sure it's reporting at least PM2.5 based AQI values. In the past, in a lot of areas, the Thai government didn't have PM2.5 sensors, so their data was only for PM10, and so the readings and warning levels were misleadingly low.

 

Based on comparing its data with my own PM2.5 readings at home, the AQICN.org website data for PM2.5 is pretty reliable most of the time. And if they're getting readings that are oddball for some reason, their system will actually omit that sensor and its data reporting until it gets straightened out.

 

Also, you need to be aware that the Thai government uses a different AQI scale than the U.S. and much of the rest of the world, that tends to have higher threshhold levels. The Thai PCD reports AQI values using the Thai government's scale. The AQICN.org site and others typically use the U.S. EPA AQI scale, which is probably the defacto standard to use and pay attention to.

 

Any way you cut it, however, the bottom line is that pretty much every year, from say December until March or so, the air quality typically is very bad (into the red / unhealthy levels) in BKK, CM and elsewhere.

 

 

PM10 is always higher than PM2.5. How could the Thai govs readings be lower? Or maybe you mean just the warning levels. Higher readings but also much higher warning levels.

Edited by zib

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40 minutes ago, totally thaied up said:

Thanks for the detailed information. I am learning something from it. What I am seeing in smoke coming out the back of these Red Cars, sitting around for hours at a time in the intersections of Nimmim and the like, cannot be good for the locals living in close proximity to these areas. I have several farang friends that are always sniffing or have allergy problems and they live practically on the roads in Condos in this area. I believe it has got to have something to do with the pollution as they have told me they never had such problems before.

 

I am in San Kamphaeng area and after the burnoff, my air purifiers all need changing of filters as they are just black and our area does not get that high in PM 2.5. I have my purifiers running 24/7 and replace my filters every 4 months but they are never really as dark or dirty as Feb-March. 

As you say, the air is much worse close to the mountain.  I think that being wedged up against Doi Suthep has something to do with it also.  I found that when I lived there, the air quality was at its absolute worst late at night (2am) as the air cooled and the accompanying pollution settled with it.

 

This picture was taken from a condo west of canal road (on Huay Kaew) in March of 2014 (peak burning season) and the trees that are disappearing into the smoke are only 200m from the balcony.

 

 

 

FEF53E46-86BE-41E0-9E26-A036D50EDE6F.jpeg

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3 hours ago, zib said:

PM10 is always higher than PM2.5. How could the Thai govs readings be lower? Or maybe you mean just the warning levels. Higher readings but also much higher warning levels.

 Different individual pollutants have different scales of actual readings (micrograms or other) that are considered good / moderate / unhealthy for some / unhealthy for all. So those individual pollutant levels aren't the ones to focus on, because they're not standardized.

 

The advantage of the AQI scale (at least the U.S. version) is that it incorporates those different threshold danger levels into the AQI formula for each pollutant, so that good or moderate or unhealthy AQI levels mean the same thing, no matter what pollutant.

 

But in reality, in Thailand most of the time, the one pollutant with the highest AQI levels is invariably PM2.5. And it's the highest individual pollutant AQI that sets the overall AQI level for that hour or day. So pretty much all of the time, the overall AQI and the PM2.5 AQI in Thailand are going to be the same.

 

Re your comment above, however, the Thai Pollution Control District has its own AQI scale that's unique to Thailand, and different than the generally de facto U.S. EPA AQI scale used elsewhere. So if you're looking at the Thai PCD site or any other sites that uses their AQI data, you're likely to see more yellow or orange colored readings, when the other non-Thai sites like AQICN.org will be showing you red for Thailand.

 

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2 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 Different individual pollutants have different scales of actual readings (micrograms or other) that are considered good / moderate / unhealthy for some / unhealthy for all. So those individual pollutant levels aren't the ones to focus on, because they're not standardized.

 

The advantage of the AQI scale (at least the U.S. version) is that it incorporates those different threshold danger levels into the AQI formula for each pollutant, so that good or moderate or unhealthy AQI levels mean the same thing, no matter what pollutant.

 

But in reality, in Thailand most of the time, the one pollutant with the highest AQI levels is invariably PM2.5. And it's the highest individual pollutant AQI that sets the overall AQI level for that hour or day. So pretty much all of the time, the overall AQI and the PM2.5 AQI in Thailand are going to be the same.

 

Re your comment above, however, the Thai Pollution Control District has its own AQI scale that's unique to Thailand, and different than the generally de facto U.S. EPA AQI scale used elsewhere. So if you're looking at the Thai PCD site or any other sites that uses their AQI data, you're likely to see more yellow or orange colored readings, when the other non-Thai sites like AQICN.org will be showing you red for Thailand.

 

I don't think you get what I mean. I mean PM10 is particles smaller than 10 micrometers. This will include particles which are detected by PM2.5 since that's means smaller than 2.5 micrometers. So if PM2.5 is higher than PM10 then something is broken. So I don't mean about the different scales.

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2 minutes ago, zib said:

I don't think you get what I mean. I mean PM10 is particles smaller than 10 micrometers. This will include particles which are detected by PM2.5 since that's means smaller than 2.5 micrometers. So if PM2.5 is higher than PM10 then something is broken. So I don't mean about the different scales.

Ah I see now that it might be confusing since most websites lists PM10 or PM2.5 AQI and not the raw particle data.

https://airnow.gov/index.cfm?action=airnow.calculator

 

I always deal with the raw data.

 

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23 minutes ago, zib said:

I don't think you get what I mean. I mean PM10 is particles smaller than 10 micrometers. This will include particles which are detected by PM2.5 since that's means smaller than 2.5 micrometers. So if PM2.5 is higher than PM10 then something is broken. So I don't mean about the different scales.

 

It depends on if you're talking about raw microgram readings of PM2.5 or PM10, or, the AQI readings for those two substances.

 

When I look at the Thai PCD website that shows realtime values for both PM2.5 and PM10 in micrograms, the raw numbers of micrograms per cubic meter of PM10 are always higher than the PM2.5 microgram readings, as you'd expect, because the PM10 measurement is a broader one including more stuff.

 

1201877750_2019-01-1321_37_35.jpg.b59bcbd1279fa65b0e955f2fe68cee4b.jpg

 

But, the AQI values for PM2.5 are going to be higher than those for PM10 typically, because each pollutant has its own individual formula for converting micrograms into AQI, based on the individual health risk characteristics of each pollutant. And PM2.5 has higher risk issues than PM10 because it can enter the body more easily than the larger particles.

 

 

Edited by TallGuyJohninBKK

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2 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

It depends on if you're talking about raw microgram readings of PM2.5 or PM10, or, the AQI readings for those two substances.

 

When I look at the Thai PCD website that shows realtime values for both PM2.5 and PM10 in micrograms, the raw numbers of micrograms per cubic meter are always higher than the PM2.5 micrgram readings, as you'd expect, because the PM10 measurement is a broader one including more stuff.

 

 

 

But, the AQI values for PM2.5 are going to be higher, because each pollutant has its own individual formula for converting micrograms into AQI, based on the individual health risk characteristics of each pollutant.

 

 

Yeah

 

I added AQI on my page (south phuket) now http://slim.keff.org/air/

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21 minutes ago, zib said:

Ah I see now that it might be confusing since most websites lists PM10 or PM2.5 AQI and not the raw particle data.

https://airnow.gov/index.cfm?action=airnow.calculator

 

I always deal with the raw data.

 

 

The raw data of micrograms are NOT comparable from one pollutant to another.

 

That's why they developed the AQI, which is a way of standardizing the publicly reported values across a range of different pollutants with different health risk characteristics.

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