Scott Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 Off-topic, troll posts removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billd766 Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 2 hours ago, Thainesss said: The entire show is being held up by approximately 7 democrat votes in the Senate. Republicans hold the majority of seats but 60 votes are required to pass budget. 7 democrat votes are the owners of this shutdown. But you keep on thinking its Trump holding 800,000 people hostage. The only person that "owns" this shutdown is the person who ordered it to happen. That is your very own POTUS, Donald Trump. Nobody else and he cannot give in because he will lose face and look stupid. He has already lost face and looked stupid in the eyes of the world with his constant policy of shooting off Tweets, and then Tweeting the opposite thing the next day, instead of running the USA as it should be run. Hey ho. The electoral college voted him in, so live with their decision, and IMHO the sooner he is impeached the better for the USA and the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thainesss Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 1 minute ago, billd766 said: The electoral college voted him in, so live with their decision, and IMHO the sooner he is impeached the better for the USA and the world. Yeah.... it takes 2 to tango and the Democrats have a hard sell to the public. Just remember that whatever Trump is doing, the dems are obstructing it. And they have to sell that to the public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neeray Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 17 minutes ago, Thainesss said: Yeah.... it takes 2 to tango and the Democrats have a hard sell to the public. Just remember that whatever Trump is doing, the dems are obstructing it. And they have to sell that to the public. Let's not forget the 8 year run of "the party of no". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thainesss Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 1 minute ago, neeray said: Let's not forget the 8 year run of "the party of no". So you're openly admitting that its politics. I guess well do away with the 800k workers shield now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
attrayant Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 21 minutes ago, Thainesss said: Just remember that whatever Trump is doing, the dems are obstructing it. And they have to sell that to the public. There is nothing to sell. The "dems" were elected to do this - by the public. If their very first act is caving in to an absurd Trump demand, they will be defying the will of the voters who put them in office. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJBangkok Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 2 hours ago, utalkin2me said: Who doesn't fall on hard times? I believe there is insurance for situations like this for people who are that worried about it. It isn't like govt shutdowns are unheard of. They actually happen fairly regularly. Honestly, if we are going to complain about working conditions for sects of employees, I think the govt variety are coming out way ahead. Hope it is solved for them asap though. The ones who voted for Trump get no sympathy from me though, I will throw the ones who didn't some serious sympathy though. He is the problem. Period. Good post. For all those Govt employees affected by the shutdown as all I can say is welcome to the real world. The majority of the population working in the private sector faces worse risks of actual layoffs and retrenchment on a daily basis. Companies and businesses can screw up, get into fights with unions or just run their business badly and employees end up eating it. If government employees are inconvenienced by a pay delay so much that they find it intolerable then they should go get a job in the private sector. That being said I don’t expect there Is going to be an overwhelming rush of government employees for the exit door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolboy Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 1 hour ago, Thainesss said: Yeah.... it takes 2 to tango and the Democrats have a hard sell to the public. Just remember that whatever Trump is doing, the dems are obstructing it. And they have to sell that to the public. I suspect your powers of recall aren't all that they might be. Just a short time ago an election was held. The Republicans made illegal immigration their issue. How did that turn out. It's Trump who has to try and sell it to the public and so are the signs are that he is failing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesMad Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 6 hours ago, GettingBye said: This shut down would not even be taking place except for the citizens of other countries holding the belief that the US Laws do not apply to them YES, absolutely right! usa laws do not apply to citizens of other countries! Civilized countries do NOT shut down their government and use a proper democratic process to choose their government. usa laws are not MY laws, so I will definitely not obey them; not now and not ever... I hope that all (affected and non-affected) government people (and their families) call in sick, and show this sorry excuse of a president what he is doing to a once great country... To the world, the case is pretty clear cut: - trumpy wants wall, and makes it very clear that the Mexicans are paying for it (how many times did he say that?!?) - Now he is shutting down his own government, because now the american people have to pay for his stupid wall. Basically it is plain blackmail! The whole civilized world is laughing at your president; yes, you're right, not his Saudi's and his Russian buddy (ah well, they might be laughing their heads off in private) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billd766 Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 1 hour ago, Thainesss said: Yeah.... it takes 2 to tango and the Democrats have a hard sell to the public. Just remember that whatever Trump is doing, the dems are obstructing it. And they have to sell that to the public. What YOU need to remember is that whatever the Democrats are doing, Trump and the Senate are obstructing it. Both he and the Senate have to sell that to the public too. Also remember that more voters voted against Trump than voted for him. Next time around people who have been laid off will remember exactly who laid them off and why. They will make up a sizeable percentage of voters, and the longer the government is shut down the more people will be laid off and people will be unable to pay their bills. It doesn't affect me personally and from your attitude it doesn't affect you either but it does affect at least 800,000 Americans directly plus their families and the stores that they cannot use as they have no income, credit card companies if they cannot meet their monthly payments, gas stations if they have no money for gasoline. The unseen knock on effect is huge. All because of one mans ego and his over inflated sense of self importance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolboy Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 2 hours ago, Thainesss said: Yeah.... it takes 2 to tango and the Democrats have a hard sell to the public. Just remember that whatever Trump is doing, the dems are obstructing it. And they have to sell that to the public. Ever since Trump began the shutdown, his poll numbers have declined. Even Rasmussen's figures support that. https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/?ex_cid=rrpromo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sydebolle Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 Well, maybe they help themselves from the "defense" budget of USD 723 billion (not million) ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Srikcir Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 8 minutes ago, Sydebolle said: Well, maybe they help themselves from the "defense" budget of USD 723 billion (not million) ...... "They" can't. The Defense budget is not a slush fund for discretionary POTUS spending. Congress approves funding for specific defense programs agreed upon by Congress and the POTUS. Any budget reductions in any of those programs belong to the US Treasury and the property of Congress as representatives of the American electorate. A POTUS not getting specific funds from Congress is not a National Emergency, it is a Check and Balance against an autocratic spending behaving POTUS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwest5829 Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 6 hours ago, Thainesss said: There are 2 parties at play here, and the democrats refuse to give more than one us dollar (pelosi's own words) for extra border security, so to place the blame on Trump is partisan hackery using the same furlowed workers as fodder. You cant grandstand about federal workers starving while finger pointing at trump when the dems could open the government at any time if they were serious about border security. It takes 2 to tango. Individual #1 already publicly stated he is proud to own the shutdown. Matter of public recorded record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Srikcir Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 working without pay seeks to block tax refunds during shutdown The National Treasury Employees Union, which also represents workers at several other affected federal agencies including Customs and Border Protection, filed a complaint in U.S. District Court against acting White House chief of staff Mick Mulvaney that claims many of its members are unconstitutionally being forced to work without pay during the government shutdown. The union argues the Trump administration is abusing a loophole in the law. In the request for an injunction to block those guidances, it alleges that the directions are unconstitutional because they require the government to spend funds that Congress did not approve and force employees to work without pay in a situation where they have been considered nonessential in the past. https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/policy/economy/union-lawsuit-over-federal-employees-working-without-pay-seeks-to-block-tax-refunds-during-shutdown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwest5829 Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 1 hour ago, AJBangkok said: Good post. For all those Govt employees affected by the shutdown as all I can say is welcome to the real world. The majority of the population working in the private sector faces worse risks of actual layoffs and retrenchment on a daily basis. Companies and businesses can screw up, get into fights with unions or just run their business badly and employees end up eating it. If government employees are inconvenienced by a pay delay so much that they find it intolerable then they should go get a job in the private sector. That being said I don’t expect there Is going to be an overwhelming rush of government employees for the exit door. Excellent observation private sector nor public offer protections for employees. Sooner the focus of what is needed, the better. The working middle class being screwed for the past 30-40 years has ugly consequences from Brexit to right wing political swing to Individual #1 getting elected by the Electoral College (not by the popular vote). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReMarKable Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 Why not just allow military air-traffic controllers in to replace overworked civilian controllers, like Ronald when he broke the back of their labor union. Since the non-crisis at the border has created other true crises in government, such as personnel issues, let the military step in to fill these other issues as well. They will all be in place when the coup is declared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thailand J Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 I am waiting for the shut down to be over so that I can get the exchange rate from the Treasury to file FBAR. May be I'll use the published rate from the Federal Reserve, should be acceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolboy Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 1 hour ago, wwest5829 said: Excellent observation private sector nor public offer protections for employees. Sooner the focus of what is needed, the better. The working middle class being screwed for the past 30-40 years has ugly consequences from Brexit to right wing political swing to Individual #1 getting elected by the Electoral College (not by the popular vote). Can the private sector force its employees to work without pay? I've heard of wage slaves, but non-wage slaves? Federal workers sue Trump administration over shutdown, allege work without pay violates 13th Amendment https://thehill.com/regulation/424817-5-federal-workers-sue-over-shutdown-allege-work-without-pay-violates-13th Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 3 hours ago, billd766 said: The only person that "owns" this shutdown is the person who ordered it to happen. That is your very own POTUS, Donald Trump. Nobody else and he cannot give in because he will lose face and look stupid. He has already lost face and looked stupid in the eyes of the world with his constant policy of shooting off Tweets, and then Tweeting the opposite thing the next day, instead of running the USA as it should be run. Hey ho. The electoral college voted him in, so live with their decision, and IMHO the sooner he is impeached the better for the USA and the world. Yes, and the people agree. It's on "trump" and the republicans particularly McConnell. Quote Americans blame Trump and GOP much more than Democrats for shutdown, Post-ABC poll finds By a wide margin, more Americans blame President Trump and Republicans in Congress than congressional Democrats for the now record-breaking government shutdown, and most reject the president’s assertion that there is an illegal-immigration crisis on the southern border, according to a Washington Post-ABC News poll. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/americans-blame-trump-and-gop-much-more-than-democrats-for-shutdown-post-abc-poll-finds/2019/01/12/9c89aff2-16a9-11e9-90a8-136fa44b80ba_story.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 8 hours ago, Thainesss said: There are 2 parties at play here, and the democrats refuse to give more than one us dollar (pelosi's own words) for extra border security, so to place the blame on Trump is partisan hackery using the same furlowed workers as fodder. You cant grandstand about federal workers starving while finger pointing at trump when the dems could open the government at any time if they were serious about border security. It takes 2 to tango. Stop lying. She said no money for the "trump" vanity wall. There is widespread bipartisan support for border security. If you want to persuade people to your pro-"trump" agenda that aren't already so infected, you must try out actually telling the TRUTH. McConnell can open the government. Send "trump" the bill the REPUBLICANS passed before, the great wall dictator president will veto it, and then the veto can be overturned. Republicans -- nation first or bizarre demagogue leader first? So far they have made their choice and the vast majority of the American people are disgusted and will not forget the destructive choices they are making now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamini Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 Trump behaving like a child because he can't get his pet wall project. Reminds me of May who is threatening economic chaos if she can't get her pet brexit plan approved Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, gamini said: Trump behaving like a child because he can't get his pet wall project. Reminds me of May who is threatening economic chaos if she can't get her pet brexit plan approved As "trump" continues to say, elections have consequences. The U.S. just had an election and "trump" lost control of the house. He ran on building his great ego wall, couldn't get it done when he did control all of congress, and now the consequences hit home. No "trump" wall. The people have spoken. He can try to live in his perverted fantasy world where he didn't actually lose the last election, but the vast majority of the American people are not going down that rathole with him. He owns the shutdown. He owns his fake reality rathole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulic Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 As is usual for both sides, if you do it my way, you are openminded, reasonable and fair, if not you are close-minded and unreasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlmcleod Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 Trump can truly take pride in his latest accomplishment! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dumbastheycome Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 10 hours ago, GettingBye said: Why do all the news articles cry about the poor Federsl workers not getting paid and completely omit the fact they will receive all back wages for these days they have had holiday? And what kind of incompetent federal workers do we have that do not even have a few weeks of savings to live on in an emergency. This shut down would not even be taking place except for the citizens of other countries holding the belief that the US Laws do not apply to them and so many politicians allowing it to reach a humanitarian crisis over the past 30 years. Well I guess that because the USA is the golden light of economies where the average joe has plenty tucked away to offset the effects of political lunacy ..Not ! Instead assume that most are normal workers who are usually just "Getting by". Back pay does not compensate for default penalties on credit. It does not sweeten the relationship between tenant and landlord over unpaid rent. In addition those who have been furloughed will receive no pay if and when they return to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stargeezr Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 Sorry as this situation will not affect Trump supporters as none of them work for the government. This shut down is on Trump and I hope it costs the Republicans a lot of votes. Geezer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 Here's a possible solution that probably won't happen because for it happen McConnell needs to bring the bill to a senate vote and he's pledge he won't do that for anything "trump" won't sign. But it's something. Quote How to end the government shutdown — with neither side losing Resurrecting a once-common practice, President Trump should let the government reopen without his signature. https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2019/01/11/how-end-government-shutdown-with-neither-side-losing/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billd766 Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 13 hours ago, Jingthing said: Here's a possible solution that probably won't happen because for it happen McConnell needs to bring the bill to a senate vote and he's pledge he won't do that for anything "trump" won't sign. But it's something. https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2019/01/11/how-end-government-shutdown-with-neither-side-losing/ Though it seems to me to be a sensible option IMHO Trump is unlikely to take that option as he believes it is close to "The gunfight at the OK Corral" with Trump as Ike Clanton and the Democrats as the Law abiding Earp's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgraham Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 Just as the shutdown during the Obama administration I have noticed no change so don't furlough them, fire them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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