Teachers-to-be can graduate with poor English, Thai panel decides

[robsamui]

1 hour ago, mickymouse1 said:

There is no need whatsoever to have any English language skills to qualify as a Teacher in a non English speaking Nation.

Teachers in the UK are not obliged to have any knowledge of German or French etc.

 

German and French? You have utterly missed the point! Ever since the New Word was opened up in the 17th when European nations realised you didn't fall of the edge of the world when their ships got to the horizon, there has been an absolute need for a common language to enable communication between nations. It could have been Dutch or Portuguese, and Spanish came close. But it turned out to be English.

Having said that - with online Google speech translate, perhaps today learning languages is no longer strictly necessary. But when was the last time you saw a Thai pull out their phone so that they could understand what you were saying in English?

[Baerboxer]

1 hour ago, mickymouse1 said:

There is no need whatsoever to have any English language skills to qualify as a Teacher in a non English speaking Nation.

Teachers in the UK are not obliged to have any knowledge of German or French etc.

 

 

German or French etc aren't the world's premier language. English is. 

[Baerboxer]

1 hour ago, robblok said:

I did not say English was not important, i said its not important for teachers who specialize in other subjects. Math, accounting, PE, History. Its the same in my country people all get a basic education in English but higher levels are not mandatory for those that study other fields. For people who do study English or educations that need English a higher level is mandatory.

That is exactly the same that they are doing here for the teachers. 

 

But if teachers are teaching English they should have a suitable level of English seems logical to me. 

 

Mainly its foreigners here who have sour grapes as they don't want to learn Thai even though they live here and expect people to speak English. Good luck with that.

 

Of course people who work in tourism should have better command of English, an ex of mine was a tourguide she was required to get a higher grade for English if she wanted a license that covered foreign tourists too. So they do differentiate here. A lot of trade is done with China so Chinese is useful too. Just up to the people who are in selling stuff to update their knowledge.

 

Don't disagree with you Rob. But children here need to become much more confident in practicing English, spoken and written. IME this requires a school environment where they can widely use English and not be frightened to make mistakes - which we know is difficult because of the 'face" and never make a mistake culture. In this culture they simply would rather not try than make a mistake.

 

My daughter is in M1 at a Satit school. All her classmates, from various schools, all attended English Programs at K and P level. Only 1 or 2 of them are comfortable to speak English to me. Even when visiting our house! One, and not the only one, things that would help this would be having more Thai teachers better skilled in English talking more with the children in English. At the moment the lack of skill, lack of willingness to make a mistake at the teacher level is a bad role model for the children. It acts as a discouraging moderating influence whereas they should be an encouraging one.

 

One of the issues is school management, which I often find at odds with teaching staff, tend to speak little if any English IME. (Not the case with my daughters previous school where management and staff were excellent).

 

Btw, the standard of some foreign teachers leaves a lot to be desired whether they're teaching English or another subject. 

[Moo 2]

The reason is simple, they don't want low and middle class to become too smart, they could take jobs

as lawyers, doctors, politicians, (think about this last one) what a blow for the General, a smart Politician

taking over!

[Ramdas]

Thailand chooses to remain insular and disconnected from the rest of the world perhaps that’s until foreign tourists refrain from coming in the land of deceptions ????????‍♂️

[HalfLight]

33 minutes ago, Grusa said:

As a native English speaker, I was required to learn French and one other language, at school, and a foreign language was obligatory to enter further education. I was given the choice of Latin or Russian - I took Russian. 

 

The French has been extremely useful to me throughout my life, the Russian I never had any opportunity to use until I came here, where it would be almost as useful as Thai, but I can no longer string a meaningful sentence together...not that I was ever very good at it anyway. 

 

It's usefulness may actually be moot anyway. The reason (for example) that I learned Latin when young, was not because Latin was or is or ever will be useful (unless you're studying medicine), but that itthe student become familiar with the habit of learning.

 

Thais lose on both counts, they're generally useless at English and they're not very good at learning anything useful, except perhaps for how to put money in the pockets of other people, including the monk's begging bowls. That's useful for the monks.

 

 

 

[KKr]

5 hours ago, canuckamuck said:

Well, who speaks English these days anyhow? Good for them to see the advantages of sticking with an obscure language that no other country speaks. It gives the kids more time for parade practice anyhow.

didn't notice that "Parade" took over from LINE.

so sad, see this vicious circle around me all the time:
comparing oneself to poor examples in order to attain a higher level.

[HalfLight]

18 minutes ago, Ramdas said:

Thailand chooses to remain insular and disconnected from the rest of the world perhaps that’s until foreign tourists refrain from coming in the land of deceptions ????????‍♂️

 

Then they'll complain there's no tourists to thieve from and cheat - and they won't understand why. I think they'll wake up before then, but as with all serious awakenings, it will be traumatic, and it will be opposed by the luddites ho are used to running the country for their own benefit.

 

 

 

[marcusarelus]

2 minutes ago, HalfLight said:

 

Then they'll complain there's no tourists and they won't understand why. I think they'll wake up before then, but as with all serious awakenings, it will be traumatic, and it will be opposed by the luddites ho are used to running the country for their own benefit.

Since the overwhelming number of tourists come from China why would Thais need English for tourists? 

 

China 10,000,000

UK 994,468

USA 1,056,124

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourism_in_Thailand

 

Tourism going up in Thailand 20% 2015, 2016 9%, 2017 8%.

 

[NCC1701A]

can you spot the future Crazy House employee in this photo?

 

 

[scorecard]

1. IMHO there should be very serious criticism of policy makers in the past for allowing this disgraceful scenario to develop.

 

2. Still no mention of any policy / regulations etc., to really fix the situation.

 

3. If really necessary to allow them to graduate (LOS has a serious problem on the horizon with hundreds of thousands of teachers retiring and nowhere near enough preparation to replace them;  so they need to let these students graduate.

 

4. Why not make a new policy that these batches can graduate, but the following year the students must achieve 1 perhaps 2 levels high in english communication to graduate, and the following year a level high neded, and the following year must achieve full international standards.

 

And along with the above full details of new structured fully detailed methodology to progressively achieve the higher levels.

 

It can be better if there is a serious desire / will to achieve better. 

 

 

[KKr]

1 minute ago, HalfLight said:

 

Your fundamental mistake is the same as mine used to be - giving a damn. Now I don't and I'm much less frustrated and have mush less sympathy for the bone-headed Thais.

First time ever I hear that "giving a damn" about family, or in larger context the community or country that one is living in is a "fundamental mistake".

Thank you for that profound, albeit misguided, insight that will surely not enlighten my future.

[robblok]

22 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Don't disagree with you Rob. But children here need to become much more confident in practicing English, spoken and written. IME this requires a school environment where they can widely use English and not be frightened to make mistakes - which we know is difficult because of the 'face" and never make a mistake culture. In this culture they simply would rather not try than make a mistake.

 

My daughter is in M1 at a Satit school. All her classmates, from various schools, all attended English Programs at K and P level. Only 1 or 2 of them are comfortable to speak English to me. Even when visiting our house! One, and not the only one, things that would help this would be having more Thai teachers better skilled in English talking more with the children in English. At the moment the lack of skill, lack of willingness to make a mistake at the teacher level is a bad role model for the children. It acts as a discouraging moderating influence whereas they should be an encouraging one.

 

One of the issues is school management, which I often find at odds with teaching staff, tend to speak little if any English IME. (Not the case with my daughters previous school where management and staff were excellent).

 

Btw, the standard of some foreign teachers leaves a lot to be desired whether they're teaching English or another subject. 

I certainly don't disagree that English language teaching needs an overhaul. I just don't see the benefits of people who are good in other subjects and will teach those (not English) lose out. 

 

I can still remember how bad I was at German and was happy to drop the subject as fast as I could for subjects that were more to my liking. I prefer to have a good math teacher over one that does mediocre math and can speak English. I just mean it might mean that people who are good at their given subject (math for instance) could not pass tests and teach while people who might be worse at math but good at English pass and give bad math.

 

But your 100% right about Thais being afraid to make mistakes. I really don't care if I make mistakes in my Thai or English or German as long as I am understood. Takes some confidence I guess to accept that you make mistakes. Current GF is trying to learn English at a private school and how she pronounces things is horrible. She is trying but its hard and I just don't want to teach her as I find it hard to teach someone how to pronounce something. 

 

What I have found helps is making sure she watches a lot of English TV. 

 

Good teachers are not only qualified at the subject they teach but are also able to transfer that knowledge its hard to find good teachers.

 

[HalfLight]

1 minute ago, KKr said:

First time ever I hear that "giving a damn" about family, or in larger context the community or country that one is living in is a "fundamental mistake".

Thank you for that profound, albeit misguided, insight that will surely not enlighten my future.

 

Well, I guess that there's quite a lot of unhappiness and frustration in your tea-leaves friend.

 

If Thais don't care about Thais, is there a good reason I should?

 

Didn't think so, besides, have you ever tried to tell a Thai anything? Nobody home - not listening. Know it all already, God says so.

 

 

[marcusarelus]

1 minute ago, robblok said:

I certainly don't disagree that English language teaching needs an overhaul. I just don't see the benefits of people who are good in other subjects and will teach those (not English) lose out. 

 

I can still remember how bad I was at German and was happy to drop the subject as fast as I could for subjects that were more to my liking. I prefer to have a good math teacher over one that does mediocre math and can speak English. I just mean it might mean that people who are good at their given subject (math for instance) could not pass tests and teach while people who might be worse at math but good at English pass and give bad math.

 

But your 100% right about Thais being afraid to make mistakes. I really don't care if I make mistakes in my Thai or English or German as long as I am understood. Takes some confidence I guess to accept that you make mistakes. Current GF is trying to learn English at a private school and how she pronounces things is horrible. She is trying but its hard and I just don't want to teach her as I find it hard to teach someone how to pronounce something. 

 

What I have found helps is making sure she watches a lot of English TV. 

 

Good teachers are not only qualified at the subject they teach but are also able to transfer that knowledge its hard to find good teachers.

Good point.  Thailand is teaching English all wrong.  English conversation is needed and English for learning other subjects.  No one is going to be a grammar scholar. 

[HalfLight]

1 minute ago, robblok said:

I certainly don't disagree that English language teaching needs an overhaul. I just don't see the benefits of people who are good in other subjects and will teach those (not English) lose out. 

 

I can still remember how bad I was at German and was happy to drop the subject as fast as I could for subjects that were more to my liking. I prefer to have a good math teacher over one that does mediocre math and can speak English. I just mean it might mean that people who are good at their given subject (math for instance) could not pass tests and teach while people who might be worse at math but good at English pass and give bad math.

 

But your 100% right about Thais being afraid to make mistakes. I really don't care if I make mistakes in my Thai or English or German as long as I am understood. Takes some confidence I guess to accept that you make mistakes. Current GF is trying to learn English at a private school and how she pronounces things is horrible. She is trying but its hard and I just don't want to teach her as I find it hard to teach someone how to pronounce something. 

 

What I have found helps is making sure she watches a lot of English TV. 

 

Good teachers are not only qualified at the subject they teach but are also able to transfer that knowledge its hard to find good teachers.

 

I wonder what it says about people that a 3-year old can learn Thai, but a 33-year-old can't learn how to speak English properly.

 

 

 

[Ossy]

3 hours ago, robblok said:

3 hours ago, bluesofa said:

I think because at the lower school ages, one teacher tends to teach their class all the subjects, rather than specialise in just one.

And that is the case for all.. I know first hand of people who wanted to become an English teacher they had a special education with loads of English. That was totally different from other teachers. So I think your information might not be correct. Unless the person I knew only teaches higher classes.

Sorry, Robblok, but I struggle to empathise with your argument against the universal need for English skills throughout Thailand's teaching profession. That is such an unwarranted and negative stance against acquiring skills in the world's most universally used language . . . WHY?

 

Furthermore, I have to agree with bluesofa, re lower school teachers needing good English skills. At our village lower school - and I assume other lower schools - the class teacher has '2 or 3' (my wife assures me) English lessons a week on his timetable.

 

For a country with lamentable language education, notably reading, standards (57 out of 73 nations tested, [OECD]) why on earth do you put up an argument that can only damn this situation further?

[KKr]

3 minutes ago, HalfLight said:

 

Well, I guess that there's quite a lot of unhappiness and frustration in your tea-leaves friend.

 

If Thais don't care about Thais, is there a good reason I should?

 

Didn't think so, besides, have you ever tried to tell a Thai anything? Nobody home - not listening. Know it all already, God says so.

 

 

sorry to be rude, but I suggest to try and switch the other half of the light on.
Good Luck, do not expect more answers from me in this non-discussion.

[marcusarelus]

1 minute ago, HalfLight said:

I wonder what it says about people that a 3-year old can learn Thai, but a 33-year-old can't learn how to speak English properly.

The same thing Thai teachers say about Farang who can't speak Thai at a 3 year old's level after living in the country for 10 years. 

[Ossy]

3 hours ago, nickstav said:

There are so many other things, higher up on the ladder than speaking English, that will keep most of Thailand from developing into a global nation.

For example?

[marcusarelus]

5 minutes ago, HalfLight said:

 

Well, I guess that there's quite a lot of unhappiness and frustration in your tea-leaves friend.

 

If Thais don't care about Thais, is there a good reason I should?

 

Didn't think so, besides, have you ever tried to tell a Thai anything? Nobody home - not listening. Know it all already, God says so.

I have a friend who teaches and inspects companies for ASME standards and certification.  The Thais listen and learn.  Perhaps you should investigate the industrial skills of Thailand and find out what the world thinks of their work.  

[HalfLight]

8 minutes ago, KKr said:

sorry to be rude, but I suggest to try and switch the other half of the light on.
Good Luck, do not expect more answers from me in this non-discussion.

 

Result.

 

Better not to be rude at all than to have to apologise for it.

 

Isn't it remarkable that so many people new to Thailand tend to have the same approach to Thais...?

 

Until they learn better. Education charge for teaching you this? Nah, it's a freebie.

 

[dpspike]

Not surprising, since the emphasis now is on Chinese. Of course, I doubt many of them speak it well either.

[robblok]

12 minutes ago, Ossy said:

Sorry, Robblok, but I struggle to empathise with your argument against the universal need for English skills throughout Thailand's teaching profession. That is such an unwarranted and negative stance against acquiring skills in the world's most universally used language . . . WHY?

 

Furthermore, I have to agree with bluesofa, re lower school teachers needing good English skills. At our village lower school - and I assume other lower schools - the class teacher has '2 or 3' (my wife assures me) English lessons a week on his timetable.

 

For a country with lamentable language education, notably reading, standards (57 out of 73 nations tested, [OECD]) why on earth do you put up an argument that can only damn this situation further?

You won't get an argument from me that those who actually teach English need good grades in English I am talking about those who do not.

 

This is how the system works in my country and we are among the best at speaking English for those who are not natives. So the system certainly works.

 

 

[Ossy]

3 hours ago, mikebell said:

Too

Spotted earlier in the thread, Mike, but an easy trap to fall into. You'd think they'd correct it, rather than keep it for the world to see . . . global language skills and all ????

[robblok]

13 minutes ago, HalfLight said:

I wonder what it says about people that a 3-year old can learn Thai, but a 33-year-old can't learn how to speak English properly.

 

 

 

Have you ever tried to study languages at a higher age ? How good is your Thai skill ? Just asking as most who comment live here in Thailand but almost dont speak any Thai at all.

[HalfLight]

8 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

I have a friend who teaches and inspects companies for ASME standards and certification.  The Thais listen and learn.  Perhaps you should investigate the industrial skills of Thailand and find out what the world thinks of their work.  

I will accept that they might listen but I doubt they learn very much and how much they remember at somtam-time is very much in doubt.. Were it otherwise, why would the government and investors bemoan the lack of skills in Thailand? Because everyone is highly skilled and Inspects for ASME? Or because they're not?

 

 

[HalfLight]

1 minute ago, robblok said:

Have you ever tried to study languages at a higher age ? How good is your Thai skill ? Just asking as most who comment live here in Thailand but almost dont speak any Thai at all.

It wasn't quite a trick question but it was intended to flush out the people who know something about it. There weren't any.

 

 

 

[Odysseus123]

4 hours ago, Eligius said:

Great quote by your wife. But I would respond: 'Reach the top of the mountain? They will not even scale the educational heights of an ant hill!'

 

Ah..but it accords with the ancient Isaan saying..

 

"Why climb a mountain when you can build a noodle stand at the bottom,instead?"

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

 

That's really an UNENTHUSIASTIC looking bunch of dolts...

 

It says it's a file photo, so who knows of what... But I sure hope it's not of future teachers here!!!!