Teachers-to-be can graduate with poor English, Thai panel decides

[marcusarelus]

35 minutes ago, HalfLight said:

 

It's usefulness may actually be moot anyway. The reason (for example) that I learned Latin when young, was not because Latin was or is or ever will be useful (unless you're studying medicine), but that itthe student become familiar with the habit of learning.

 

Thais lose on both counts, they're generally useless at English and they're not very good at learning anything useful, except perhaps for how to put money in the pockets of other people, including the monk's begging bowls. That's useful for the monks.

Monks don't normally take money in the begging bowls.  They are for rice.  The monks you will encounter on a daily basis when you visit Thailand will be asking for food in the morning as in the photo below. 

[robblok]

2 minutes ago, HalfLight said:

It wasn't quite a trick question but it was intended to flush out the people who know something about it. There weren't any.

 

 

 

Then you should have thought about my reply, its standard that as we age its harder to learn languages. I have had 2 Thai girls in the Netherlands one was about 6 and the other 11 when they came to my country. The younger one speaks much better Dutch now (fluid) than the older one. It is just how the brain works. 

[HalfLight]

6 minutes ago, robblok said:

Then you should have thought about my reply, its standard that as we age its harder to learn languages. I have had 2 Thai girls in the Netherlands one was about 6 and the other 11 when they came to my country. The younger one speaks much better Dutch now (fluid) than the older one. It is just how the brain works. 

 

It's just how the brain works...

 

OK.

 

 

 

[happy chappie]

The fastest way for a Thai girl to learn English is to stick em in a bar and within a week they are fluent in i lub yoooo,sent me moneee,yooo by me goal.

 

[mommysboy]

It's only important that teachers of English should be able to speak the language; many of them can't even hold a basic conversation.

[HalfLight]

2 minutes ago, happy chappie said:

The fastest way for a Thai girl to learn English is to stick em in a bar and within a week they are fluent in i lub yoooo,sent me moneee,yooo by me goal.

 

My buffalo sick, my Mun sick, my Mum's buffalo sick - be my saponsor?

[scorecard]

27 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

Good point.  Thailand is teaching English all wrong.  English conversation is needed and English for learning other subjects.  No one is going to be a grammar scholar. 

 Agree, and it need attention in many ways:

 

1. Get started with some immersion in kindergarten as they do in the Philippines and China, and now in Vietnam - it works...

 

2. Newer methodologies, more active and fun immersion for current teenagers - it can be done, China today perhaps the best example. China again a good example.

 

3. Same as 2 for adults, same methodologies the planned activity is fun but more suitable for adults. China again a good example.

 

It can be done.

 

Why isn't it being done? First response because of the road blocks of the dinosaurs...

[Eligius]

15 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

That's really an UNENTHUSIASTIC looking bunch of dolts...

 

It says it's a file photo, so who knows of what... But I sure hope it's not of future teachers here!!!!

 

 

No, no, my friend: the students in the photo are the ENTHUSIASTIC ones - the ones with keen interest in the subject they are studying (the teacher is lucky that they are not all chatting or looking at their mobile phones!).

[Ossy]

18 minutes ago, robblok said:

This is how the system works in my country

Isn't English a compulsory component on most, if not all, school curricula in your country. I understand that it is and that that is largely why you and your country-mates are adept at English . . . no?

[marcusarelus]

9 minutes ago, HalfLight said:

I will accept that they might listen but I doubt they learn very much and how much they remember at somtam-time is very much in doubt.. Were it otherwise, why would the government and investors bemoan the lack of skills in Thailand? Because everyone is highly skilled and Inspects for ASME? Or because they're not?

 

 

Below Thais have built the refineries and are refining 1.234M bbl/day.  If they do it wrong it goes boom and a sizeable portion of the country explodes.  Motor vehicle production 2017: Thailand 1.988.823 UK 1,749,385, Australia 98.632.  These things are not done by people who don't learn.  Thailand's economy ranked 26th in the world.  http://statisticstimes.com/economy/projected-world-gdp-ranking.php

[marcusarelus]

11 minutes ago, HalfLight said:

My buffalo sick, my Mun sick, my Mum's buffalo sick - be my saponsor?

In 2005, there were about 1.6 million water buffaloes in the Thailand, with 393,352 buffalo raisers. The number of Thai water buffaloes dropped to 700,000 and that of raisers to 185,000 in 2015.  They will be gone soon.  The sick water buffalo stopped in my experience in the late 1990's.

 

[Pedrogaz]

Good move elite.....keep the masses dumb, incurious and incapable of reading anything from another culture. Good only for watching Thai soaps and credulously watching the adverts. Pitiful education standards here. The future looks bleak.

[robblok]

8 minutes ago, Ossy said:

Isn't English a compulsory component on most, if not all, school curricula in your country. I understand that it is and that that is largely why you and your country-mates are adept at English . . . no?

It is up until a certain level after that it is not. Why punish people who are not good at languages but are good an their chosen field. I never understand English snobs who think otherwise. Not everyone needs English period and if you don't need it in your field why bother people with it. Someone studying law for instance can drop English at a certain point. 

 

You can have a great mechanic for instance but he is lousy at English should he not be able to get a degree in his chosen field just because his English is bad while he does not need it with his job ?

 

You have people who are great at law but bad at English why make it hard on those people there is no point. Unless it is to please English snobs. (sorry if that sounds harsh). 

 

People seem to think English is so important but its not important to everyone. I think most of the English speakers at this forum have this attitude because they expect Thais to speak English and cater to their needs instead of themselves learning the language of the land where they settle. 

 

 We are good at English also because most of our TV is in English and not Dutch with Dutch subtitles. So we listen to English often. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

25 minutes ago, Eligius said:

No, no, my friend: the students in the photo are the ENTHUSIASTIC ones - the ones with keen interest in the subject they are studying (the teacher is lucky that they are not all chatting or looking at their mobile phones!).

 

If I could place little "thought bubbles" over the heads of the various folks depicted in the photo... they would be ones like...

 

--Wonder what flavor of som tam I'll have for lunch today.....

--What time's the jewelry shop going to close tonight?

--If my Mom makes me wash the dishes again tonight, I'm gonna be pissed!

--How long until this class ends, anyway???

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

16 minutes ago, robblok said:

People seem to think English is so important but its not important to everyone. I think most of the English speakers at this forum have this attitude because they expect Thais to speak English and cater to their needs instead of themselves learning the language of the land where they settle. 

 

 

1. English is part of the basic Thai education curriculum, supposedly... And if the upcoming Thai teachers who potentially will be asked to teach it are barely fluent themselves, that's a recipe for failure, as has been the case for many years.

 

2. We're talking about university graduates here -- not folks who are headed toward being car mechanics or McDonald's cash register clerks...  So there's a reasonable expectation that knowledge of English will have some value in their future careers.

 

3. Apart from future teachers, fluency in a 2nd language for Thai students in general could be another language besides English like Chinese or Japanese, etc. which both would be useful for employment in Thailand. But the bottom line is, most of these Thai students aren't being taught well in any 2nd language...

 

4. The value of knowing a second language other than Thai is substantial, considering that TH language is ONLY used here. but EN is the worldwide common language, or at close as it gets, and Chinese and Japanese also have substantial value and presence here in Thailand.

 

PS -- When I was in high school and college, EVERYONE was required to study and pass classes in a 2nd language... We had our choice of several different ones, this was in the U.S. so it was choices like Spanish or French or others...  But we had to study and pass those classes, and we had teachers who were legitimately fluent in what they taught...   Here in Thailand, not so much....

 

 

[SheungWan]

43 minutes ago, Eligius said:

No, no, my friend: the students in the photo are the ENTHUSIASTIC ones - the ones with keen interest in the subject they are studying (the teacher is lucky that they are not all chatting or looking at their mobile phones!).

and how do you think a similar photo from the UK would look?

[robblok]

9 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

1. English is part of the basic Thai education curriculum, supposedly... And if the upcoming Thai teachers who potentially will be asked to teach it are barely fluent themselves, that's a recipe for failure, as has been the case for many years.

 

2. We're talking about university graduates here -- not folks who are headed toward being car mechanics or McDonald's cash register clerks...  So there's a reasonable expectation that knowledge of English will have some value in their future careers.

 

3. Apart from future teachers, fluency in a 2nd language for Thai students in general could be another language besides English like Chinese or Japanese, etc. which both would be useful for employment in Thailand. But the bottom line is, most of these Thai students aren't being taught well in any 2nd language...

 

4. The value of knowing a second language other than Thai is substantial, considering that TH language is ONLY used here. but EN is the worldwide common language, or at close as it gets, and Chinese and Japanese also have substantial value and presence here in Thailand.

 

PS -- When I was in high school and college, EVERYONE was required to study and pass classes in a 2nd language... We had our choice of several different ones, this was in the U.S. so it was choices like Spanish or French or others...  But we had to study and pass those classes, and we had teachers who were legitimately fluent in what they taught...   Here in Thailand, not so much....

 

 

1) I said countless times that for true English teachers it is needed (and that is why according to this article only those NOT teaching English can pass at a lower level

 

2) Not if your not teaching English besides these people make an English test but have to do it at a lower level as those who will teach English. I see nothing wrong with that at all that English teachers need higher skill in English then those who don't

 

3) Could be useful or could not be useful depends on what they are going to do if they need it they can always study for it.

 

4) They are learning English only they don't have to be at the same level as English teachers is that so strange that they differentiate between those that absolutely need it and will teach that language and those who have not specialised in that language ?

 

PS - I had to pass 2 foreign languages and studied 3 at school. I was happy to drop most of after i passed the required level and went on to study subjects that were more in line with my future job. b

 

Seems I was too hasty.. what i described was the original idea. They deviated to an even lower standard. That is not something I agree with English teachers should be held to an higher standard than that. I still see the logic of holding non English teachers to a lower standard then those who teach English.

[robblok]

3 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

and how do you think a similar photo from the UK would look?

No don't say that people need to bash Thai at all cost. 

[Odysseus123]

10 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

and how do you think a similar photo from the UK would look?

Goodness-the UK again, huh?

 

"I'm caught in a rut..

I can't get out..

'Cos only Thai visa loves me babee"

 

[elliss]

1 hour ago, Odysseus123 said:

Ah..but it accords with the ancient Isaan saying..

 

"Why climb a mountain when you can build a noodle stand at the bottom,instead?"

        learn the language used by  the  country , supplying the majority of sex tourists to the kingdom.

           It makes economical  sense ,  and a regular mouthly income , above and beyond the normal wage.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

10 minutes ago, robblok said:

Seems I was too hasty.. what i described was the original idea. They deviated to an even lower standard. That is not something I agree with English teachers should be held to an higher standard than that. I still see the logic of holding non English teachers to a lower standard then those who teach English.

 

Never mind.... 

[losworld]

wasn't the pm quoted not too long ago saying that Thai could very well replace english as the international language....

[bizboi]

...however they need an A for Mandarin no doubt!!

[Odysseus123]

1 hour ago, HalfLight said:

 

Your fundamental mistake is the same as mine used to be - giving a damn. Now I don't and I'm much less frustrated and have much less sympathy for the more bone-headed Thais. I get 3 square meals a day and am enjoying my retirement. Thais are too poor? Serves you right for making the wrong decisions and believing someone else's wet dream. No sympathy, and if you talk to me in Thai I'll respond in English; then you'll get all confused and stuff.

 

Enjoy the fruits of the hard-won stupidity bestowed upon you by a demi-God and his remora-fish-like hangers-on.

 

Thailand is run just like the mafia in Sicily and USA - the likeness is (imho) uncanny.

 

 

An interesting post.

 

Yes,I think that I arrived at somewhat similar conclusions.

 

I remember standing on my balcony and shouting at the assembled multitudes (I had refused to pay a 50,000 Baht fine imposed upon them for their crass incompetence)

 

"I don't care!You can all go and eat cake as far as I am concerned!"

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

22 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

PS -- When I was in high school and college, EVERYONE was required to study and pass classes in a 2nd language... We had our choice of several different ones, this was in the U.S. so it was choices like Spanish or French or others...  But we had to study and pass those classes, and we had teachers who were legitimately fluent in what they taught...   Here in Thailand, not so much....

 

BTW, back when I was in high school, I didn't see the reason for needing to learn a second language. After all, I spoke English and was in the U.S.  So I took the classes and learned one, but would have skipped it if I could have.

 

Fortunately, however, I had an education system where it was required, and I was required to learn and pass it, with real standards and no copying or cheating off other students.

 

It was only later in my life as an adult, and once I got into my careers, where I realized how much value a second language can have, even if you don't know it when you're a dumb high school kid who probably has little idea of what they're going to end up doing as an adult.

 

This is one of those issues/topics where the "adults" in the room OUGHT to be setting the right standards for the students, even if the student's don't like it and may not understand right now what the future value of it will be for them.

 

[robblok]

2 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

BTW, back when I was in high school, I didn't see the reason for needing to learn a second language. After all, I spoke English and was in the U.S.  So I took the classes and learned one, but would have skipped it if I could have.

 

Fortunately, however, I had an education system where it was required, and I was required to learn and pass it, with real standards and no copying or cheating off other students.

 

It was only later in my life as an adult, and once I got into my careers, where I realized how much value a second language can have, even if you don't know it when you're a dumb high school kid who probably has little idea of what they're going to end up doing as an adult.

 

This is one of those issues/topics where the "adults" in the room OUGHT to be setting the right standards for the students, even if the student's don't like it and may not understand right now what the future value of it will be for them.

 

I agree that a second or 3rd language can be useful but I don't see the need for it at higher levels. Its good for everyone to learn a bit of a second language but it should never stop people (when they are bad at languages) from obtaining a certificate at a higher level once they past the basics of a second language.

 

That is how it is done in the Netherlands, everyone needs to learn a second and 3rd language but only up to a certain level. After that those who want more language can apply for it while others can study in their given field at higher education. 

[Ossy]

29 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

and how do you think a similar photo from the UK would look?

                                 Similar . . . right?

[dickjones2018]

did somchai forget to mention:  we were never colonized (excuse not to speak anything else?)

lol

 

look ...all the countries that think they are the best (race) in de world, only speak one language

thailand

usa

japan

most arab countries

...

 

shitty countries in africa know they better learn french or english, because they want to go there to get FREE MONEY

 

I speak 3 languages fluently (or so I think)...

 

the tonal Thai (excuses excuses) is just to hard at my age, yes a 3 year old down syndrome can speak thai...blabla ...

 

my problem is: they teach english in thai shitty schools, but people are not interested... elite is not interested, they want poor uneducated slave wage people that know thai history , eat som tam and watch lakorn ...  no need for more brain

[trainman34014]

8 hours ago, Somtamnication said:

As my wife just said when she read this: "they will never reach the top of the mountain" as people and country. She's Thai.

They will never even reach first Base Camp !

 

[sqwakvfr]

English will be an important language to learn unless these two industries switch to another language:

 

1.  Aviation:  Pilots, ATC, cabin attendants, mechanics and even gate agents use English.  So I guess Thai students do not want to be pilots, aircraft mechanics or even flight attendants.  

2.  Information Technology:  Computer programs are written in English.   My guess is the creators of the Line App wrote the program in English.  I believe the Line App is the most popular App in LOS? 

 

Who knows maybe in 25 years Mandarin will become the Universal Language?

Then are Thai students in a mad dash to learn Mandarin or Cantonese?  My guess is they are not.  Then exactly what are Thai students or even teachers eager to learn?