cleopatra2 Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 4 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said: Actually if you followed the whole situation before the referendum it was stated countless times by David Cameron the Prime Minister. In case you had forgot. Your argument is irrational. The leave campaign won, when a party wins a general election and forms a government they do not follow the losing side manifesto. In what way is the referendum result not being carried out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
findlay13 Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 43 minutes ago, lagavulin1 said: And make it a compulsory vote. The 52% who won the vote actually accounts for circa 25% of the entitled voter's. There was a chart displayed after the vote which misteriously vanished. You WILL VOTE! You WILL exercise your democratic right it's compulsory! ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughing Gravy Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 2 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said: Your argument is irrational. The leave campaign won, when a party wins a general election and forms a government they do not follow the losing side manifesto. In what way is the referendum result not being carried out. So you now admit that leaving the SM was told to everyone.???? The conservatives and Labours manifesto was to uphold the referendum result. Only the Lib Dems did not and look what happened to them TM deal is not what was promised if we leave the EU. So there is your answer. In case you didn't follow the referendum and all the political talk leading up to it. Every household got one of these at 9 million pound cost. https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/515068/why-the-government-believes-that-voting-to-remain-in-the-european-union-is-the-best-decision-for-the-uk.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nauseus Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 22 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said: The Single Market cannot be categorized as being a EU institution, it is merely a trade agreement between the EU and other states . Evidenced by the EEA agreements. Thus the referendum did not give a mandate to leave the SM. The official Leave Campaign never advocated withdrawing from the SM Nonsense. The Single Market was developed and is owned by the EU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billd766 Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 55 minutes ago, Baerboxer said: Why bother with anymore elections ever? It was all decided last time! Or should we just keep having them till you like the result then stop? Democracy - as long as you like the result ! So, if there is another vote and the Remainers win, that would be Democracy in your mind. If the Leavers want a 3rd vote that won't be Democratic. How about if the Leavers win the second vote. Would you accept that as Democracy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughing Gravy Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 8 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said: So you now admit that leaving the SM was told to everyone.???? The conservatives and Labours manifesto was to uphold the referendum result. Only the Lib Dems did not and look what happened to them TM deal is not what was promised if we leave the EU. So there is your answer. In case you didn't follow the referendum and all the political talk leading up to it. Every household got one of these at 9 million pound cost. https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/515068/why-the-government-believes-that-voting-to-remain-in-the-european-union-is-the-best-decision-for-the-uk.pdf I have heard before that the leaflet had no impact on voters. Well this disagrees with that. http://speri.dept.shef.ac.uk/2018/01/26/how-the-governments-pro-remain-leaflet-shaped-the-eu-referendum/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cleopatra2 Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 5 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said: So you now admit that leaving the SM was told to everyone.???? The conservatives and Labours manifesto was to uphold the referendum result. Only the Lib Dems did not and look what happened to them TM deal is not what was promised if we leave the EU. So there is your answer. In case you didn't follow the referendum and all the political talk leading up to it. Every household got one of these at 9 million pound cost. https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/515068/why-the-government-believes-that-voting-to-remain-in-the-european-union-is-the-best-decision-for-the-uk.pdf The leave campaign stated they would be part of the existing FTA that spans from Iceland to Turkey. If this is not the EEA then please explain what is referring to. The campaign also stated that it would negotiate a deal before starting the legal process to leave the EU. To me the above 2 statements do not equate to leaving without a deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billd766 Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 56 minutes ago, Baerboxer said: And the previous result of a referendum was to join. So with your logic we shouldn't be leaving! You just don't get democracy do you. Over 2 years on, with more information, people can change their mind if they wish to, either way. It has nothing to do with pretending decisions you like can't be changed! At the first referendum we voted to join the EEC and NOT the EU as it didn't even exist back then and the government of the day lied to the public. In 2016 with over 40 years of information people voted to change their mind and leave. It has nothing to do with pretending decisions YOU like can't be changed! That is called Democracy. 1 hour ago, Baerboxer said: Wonder if he's still collecting his MEP pay? And if he'll donate his EU pension to charity 555! Why should he NOT be collecting his pay? After all he is still an elected MEP. Did you donate your pension to a charity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughing Gravy Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 3 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said: The leave campaign stated they would be part of the existing FTA that spans from Iceland to Turkey. If this is not the EEA then please explain what is referring to. The campaign also stated that it would negotiate a deal before starting the legal process to leave the EU. To me the above 2 statements do not equate to leaving without a deal. It would seem that you did not follow the referendum process. Here is David Cameron the leader of Remain and PM. This can't be any clearer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cleopatra2 Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 2 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said: It would seem that you did not follow the referendum process. Here is David Cameron the leader of Remain and PM. This can't be any clearer. I am trying to establish what the people voted for. They rejected D Cameron and voted for leave. In normal circumstances the winning side does not adopt the ideas of the losing party. The losing side claimed it would mean leaving the SM, this was rejected. Vote leave stating they would be part of the existing FTA stretching from Iceland to Turkey. The leave campaign also stated that a deal would be negotiated before starting the legal process. I do not dispute that some people will wish the UK to leave without a deal and the SM. However no mandate for this can be claimed from the referendum , because this was never put to the people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bizboi Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 Note to lefty remoaners - If we have another vote because the winning majority was so small can we also have another vote on the SIX constituencies that Liebour won in the last election with LESS than a 5% majority? Dudley North by 21 votes- - that deserves a 2nd vote - shall we also go back to other close decisions and have a 2nd vote - FACT -the Democratic process has to continue whether remoaners like it or not!! If Brexit doesnt happen there may be repercussions in the UK that will make the yellow vests in Paris look like a Sunday School! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammieuk1 Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 All aboard the £ Brexit bus as it heads to white cliffs of Dover and drives majestically into the channel with the reassurance our millionaires and tax havens are all safe???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughing Gravy Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 1 minute ago, cleopatra2 said: I am trying to establish what the people voted for. They rejected D Cameron and voted for leave. In normal circumstances the winning side does not adopt the ideas of the losing party. The losing side claimed it would mean leaving the SM, this was rejected. Vote leave stating they would be part of the existing FTA stretching from Iceland to Turkey. The leave campaign also stated that a deal would be negotiated before starting the legal process. I do not dispute that some people will wish the UK to leave without a deal and the SM. However no mandate for this can be claimed from the referendum , because this was never put to the people. Can I ask did you vote in the referendum or followed it in 2016 before the campaigning started? It was a simple leave or remain on the ballot sheet. I voted leave by post from Thailand. We were all told countless times what leave meant. That was a mandate in itself. Everyone knew. What we didn't know was that the politicians would try their best to stop brexit with every single conceivable trick to prevent all the things that was mentioned. It would seem you can't accept the result and are using a feeble argument. Please don't tell me I didn't know what I was voting for. It would be an insult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bizboi Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 1 hour ago, lagavulin1 said: And make it a compulsory vote. The 52% who won the vote actually accounts for circa 25% of the entitled voter's. There was a chart displayed after the vote which misteriously vanished. Have you been on the lagavulin over the weekend? Your supposed FACTS are fantasy!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cleopatra2 Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 4 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said: Can I ask did you vote in the referendum or followed it in 2016 before the campaigning started? It was a simple leave or remain on the ballot sheet. I voted leave by post from Thailand. We were all told countless times what leave meant. That was a mandate in itself. Everyone knew. What we didn't know was that the politicians would try their best to stop brexit with every single conceivable trick to prevent all the things that was mentioned. It would seem you can't accept the result and are using a feeble argument. Please don't tell me I didn't know what I was voting for. It would be an insult. Taking into account the vote leave campaign , what part of the referendum is not being honored Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughing Gravy Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 3 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said: Taking into account the vote leave campaign , what part of the referendum is not being honored Well if you need the answer to that one it is pointless debating with you. I assume, as you never replied to my answer you didn't vote and are probably not from the UK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nauseus Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 56 minutes ago, nauseus said: Is that some kind of Spanish blackbird? My name ees Escro and I am from Bartheelona. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nauseus Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 34 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said: The leave campaign stated they would be part of the existing FTA that spans from Iceland to Turkey. If this is not the EEA then please explain what is referring to. The campaign also stated that it would negotiate a deal before starting the legal process to leave the EU. To me the above 2 statements do not equate to leaving without a deal. Turkey is not in the EEA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owl sees all Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 1 hour ago, bristolboy said: a And you still haven't provided a link. b Nor have you explained if it's a mathematically sound poll or just a poll c anyone can vote in. And thanks for your reckoning? We already know you reckoned that the d dollar was going to collapse by the end of 2018. So the quality of your reckoning is somewhat suspect. How about providing verifiable facts. a Like a link to that poll, for starters? 1 a I get a weekly email from Liverpool Ron*. b Yes bristolboy, it is mathematically sound. c If you don't get into Ron's mini-cab, you wouldn't be able to vote. d I was wrong about the PetroDollar (PD) crashing last month; sorry! Given all the up-to-date stat's and info' I'm going to go with one of two things for 2019. 01 The PD collapses 02 All ATMs and bank accounts (worldwide) will be frozen, and a new world currency introduced. Consider; 01 Gold 02 Bitcoin (or, another safe-haven crypto')** 03 PMC ounce. 04 A German bank*** * The poll results for last week (ending at 4am on Sunday 13-01-2019 were as follows. 52% (104 votes) Just leave 25% (50 votes) accept May's deal 23% (46 votes) another vote/stay in/no comment/don't care/spoiled poll paper ** Shinecoin is running like an express train in Pattaya but I cannot recommend it at this time. *** if you have Euros seriously consider opening an account with a German bank, and transfer funds. When the Euro goes belly-up, your funds will be in the strongest country. Sorry for the delay bristolboy. I hope this comprehensive reply puts your mind at rest?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dick dasterdly Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 1 hour ago, Baerboxer said: Oh gosh, you mean the advisory vote held by the thoughtless Cameron was a legally binding must do once in a lifetime can't ever be changed vote? You'll have the Brexiters frothing! And this is the type of comment that annoys me the most.... Has ANYONE supporting brexit said that it "can't ever be changed"? It was Cameron that said it was a "once in a lifetime" vote, but most of the brexiteer posts I've read are saying 'of course there can be a future vote, but ONLY after this referendum result has been enacted'! Brexiteers had to wait 40 odd years for a chance to vote again on the 1975 referendum result, which only happened as UKIP was on the rise- (vote wise, not MP seat wise....) that finally 'forced' the govt. into another referendum as they were sure another referendum would result in remain, and (largely) stop the increasing number of Tory voters changing their vote to UKIP. IMO of course. But back to the point, I haven't read even one brexiteer post saying that there can never be another referendum on the subject - only that there cannot be another referendum until the last one has been properly enacted. Any May's deal is anything other than a genuine brexit..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spidey Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 4 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said: And this is the type of comment that annoys me the most.... Has ANYONE supporting brexit said that it "can't ever be changed"? It was Cameron that said it was a "once in a lifetime" vote, but most of the brexiteer posts I've read are saying 'of course there can be a future vote, but ONLY after this referendum result has been enacted'! Brexiteers had to wait 40 odd years for a chance to vote again on the 1975 referendum result, which only happened as UKIP was on the rise- (vote wise, not MP seat wise....) that finally 'forced' the govt. into another referendum as they were sure another referendum would result in remain, and (largely) stop the increasing number of Tory voters changing their vote to UKIP. IMO of course. But back to the point, I haven't read even one brexiteer post saying that there can never be another referendum on the subject - only that there cannot be another referendum until the last one has been properly enacted. Any May's deal is anything other than a genuine brexit..... So, if it can't be properly enacted (which it looks like it can't) we should have another referendum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lagavulin1 Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 54 minutes ago, findlay13 said: You WILL VOTE! You WILL exercise your democratic right it's compulsory! ???? Bloody right. How many of those now whinging voted? We don't know. Vote as important as this should at least involve a quorum of residents not a simple majority. Bloody fool Camerons fault. Should have written in a minimum pass level. Many Global votes require this flavour of democracy. What have we achieved for our Country? A disaster if we delay. Ref Mrs May A disaster if we no deal A disaster if we accept deal. Thanks for that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owl sees all Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 6 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said: And this is the type of comment that annoys me the most.... Has ANYONE supporting brexit said that it "can't ever be changed"? <<snip>> But back to the point, I haven't read even one brexiteer post saying that there can never be another referendum on the subject - only that there cannot be another referendum until the last one has been properly enacted. Any May's deal is anything other than a genuine brexit..... 5 All the Bexiteeres I've spoken to are pro Europe. When this model collapses, most would be for a Europe accountable to the people rather than elites, bankers and big business. The UK, IMO, is leading the way. The real reason why everything is being made so difficult is that other countries are watching and would follow if they could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dick dasterdly Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 2 minutes ago, Spidey said: So, if it can't be properly enacted (which it looks like it can't) we should have another referendum. I have to agree that it is a damned sight more difficult now, as there have been no GENUINE negotiations since the referendum, and we only have a couple of months left to start genuinely preparing for a proper brexit. Nonetheless it could have been relatively easy to enact if the govt. had started preparing for no deal immediately after the referendum. But they didn't - as the vast majority of MPs want to remain, but are worried about losing their seats if they obviously support remain..... So, we're left with 2 choices IMO, support May and the eu's remain deal - or leave with no deal, which will result in some chaos. Assuming we actually leave with no deal, the immediate chaos between the uk and eu will be quickly sorted out - for obvious reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lagavulin1 Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 30 minutes ago, bizboi said: Have you been on the lagavulin over the weekend? Your supposed FACTS are fantasy!! No. Can't afford it in Thailand.???? So you didn't see the chart either eh? Strange. It was on BBC. Obviously I can't show it to you nor verify it but my point really is. Look at the Carnage caused by a simple majority. Democracy rules I get that but it exists in different flavours. I voted. They made it bloody hard but I did it. Lagi donations a cepted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dick dasterdly Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 9 minutes ago, owl sees all said: All the Bexiteeres I've spoken to are pro Europe. When this model collapses, most would be for a Europe accountable to the people rather than elites, bankers and big business. The UK, IMO, is leading the way. The real reason why everything is being made so difficult is that other countries are watching and would follow if they could. It's not only that, you also have to bear in mind that the vast majority of uk MPs support remain - but are worried about making it obvious that they are happy to ignore a referendum result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snow Leopard Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 No deal exit. Simple. If not bring the whole house of cards crashing down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chomper Higgot Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 3 hours ago, blazes said: There's none so blind as those who cannot see [that the 'people' were 'asked' two years ago....] And there is no reason not to ask them again now they are better informed by the events and debates since the referendum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dick dasterdly Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 2 minutes ago, Snow Leopard said: No deal exit. Simple. If not bring the whole house of cards crashing down. Unfortunately, I'm coming to the same opinion ????. It's been obvious for decades that politicians are only concerned about their own financial interests - and this may, possibly be the 'breaking' point for a large number of the electorate. I doubt it, as brit's are pretty laid back/uninterested when it comes to politics - but something needs to happen to make MPs realsise they are supposed to represent their electorate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owl sees all Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 10 minutes ago, Snow Leopard said: No deal exit. Simple. If not bring the whole house of cards crashing down. Humans!!! Get off your knees. The people have the power. The truth is out there; seek and you will find. Disrespect my cat at your peril. He has powerful cousins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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