Brexit bedlam - May's EU divorce deal crushed by 230 votes in parliament

[CG1 Blue]

5 minutes ago, bomber said:

ROI will not been leaving the EU in your lifetime or my lifetime,hard,soft or a trump wall border.

If the EU tried to force them to put up a border that would change Irish opinion of the EU overnight. You have to understand, the 'troubles' is the number one issue for Ireland. 

That EU spokesperson has made a huge mistake today, using a border as a threat.  

[Spidey]

2 minutes ago, nontabury said:

Regarding Nigel Farage. He has been anything but silent on remain May’s attempt to sabotage the people’s referendum of 2016.

He has now threatened  to help create another political party to fight for our rights,should the establishment stop the implementation of the referendum result. And I’m 100% sure this is focusing the minds of many politicians.

I doubt that many Brits watch Russia Today.

[CG1 Blue]

5 minutes ago, nontabury said:

Regarding Nigel Farage. He has been anything but silent on remain May’s attempt to sabotage the people’s referendum of 2016.

He has now threatened  to help create another political party to fight for our rights,should the establishment stop the implementation of the referendum result. And I’m 100% sure this is focusing the minds of many politicians.

 

 

Quite right.  And on top of his work in the EP he also hosts a show on LBC 5 days a week on which he mostly debates Brexit. Far from silent! 

[vinny41]

59 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Cameron was saying that leaving the SM is idiotic, which it is.

 

The vote was to leave the EU. Only.

 

Fine, leave the EU but stay in the CU and SM

 

Why would we stretch a point to please a bunch of imbeciles?

 

I don't give a damn what a Tory politician said years ago. We're interested in the situation now.

 

 

 

 

The Vote to Leave was the to Leave the EU, SM and Customs union as stated many times by Cameron, Osborne and Clegg and many others likewise the vote to Remain was to remain in the EU, SM and CU I haven't heard a single person that voted Remain and thought their vote to remain would exclude remaining in the SM and CU

[7by7]

17 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

That is a bluff.  The EU have already confirmed they will not put up a border. Do you seriously think the EU will send people onto Irish soil and put up a border against Irish wishes? It simply won't happen. Here's a clip showing Juncker being pressed on the matter, and reluctantly agreeing. 

So which is correct?

 

A one word answer by Junker in the Dáil Éireann last October, or a detailed statement by Schinas yesterday?

 

As i said, no one, including the EU, wants a hard border; but one of the consequences of a no deal Brexit is very much likely to be one.

 

Will the EU send people to put up a border? Of course not.

 

Will the Irish and British governments put up customs checks etc. in the event of no deal? Probably. 

 

17 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

Why would the RoI leaving the EU result in them being ruled by the British? You seem to have little faith in the RoI's ability run their own country.  Coupled with the fact you think they'd allow an EU commission invasion to put up a border! 

Because, as I said, the ludicrous suggestion by nauseus

 

19 hours ago, nauseus said:

To avoid all this then Eire should leave the EU.

is basically  the UK saying to the RoI that if you don't want a hard border between the UK then you have to do as we say and leave the UK.

 

That is why I called nauseus' suggestion moronic!

 

Both of you are still, after 2 and a half years, living in the cloud cuckoo land promised by Vote Leave and Leave.EU; a land where the EU simply roll over and give the UK everything we want.

 

As anyone with an ounce of common sense knows, those promises had no basis in real life. We are the ones leaving; the EU don't have to give us anything. Anything we do get is a concession on their part.

 

Of course, the standard pie in the sky leaver response to that is to accuse the EU of threatening and bullying tactics. The reality, of course, is somewhat different. They have the position of strength, not us. They may want a deal as much as we do; but that deal has to be on terms acceptable to all 27 remaining members. We cannot dictate the terms to them.

[bomber]

9 minutes ago, nontabury said:

Regarding Nigel Farage. He has been anything but silent on remain May’s attempt to sabotage the people’s referendum of 2016.

He has now threatened  to help create another political party to fight for our rights,should the establishment stop the implementation of the referendum result. And I’m 100% sure this is focusing the minds of many politicians.

 

 

good,he can take jrb and bojo and the other 15% of MPs who are leave fans,this is the way it should of been from the start but Ukip had such a bad name he had to distance himself from them and team up with a few other morons from other party's,now he could be back for round 2,but nigel doesnt like to give things a second go does he ????,will it be new Ukip or will he alliance himself with Tommy's army.

[nontabury]

9 hours ago, Spidey said:

I wouldn't know, I don't live there. same as almost all contributors to this topic. Ironic or what?

 

 Most of the contributors on this topic, who actually live in the U.K. such as myself,are in favour of Britexit. While on the other hand, most of those who support remain, are in fact none Brits who do not live in the U.K.

 I think that speaks volumes.

 

 

[bomber]

11 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

The Vote to Leave was the to Leave the EU, SM and Customs union as stated many times by Cameron, Osborne and Clegg and many others likewise the vote to Remain was to remain in the EU, SM and CU I haven't heard a single person that voted Remain and thought their vote to remain would exclude remaining in the SM and CU

and what percentage of voters do you think understood what the CU and SM actually mean,less that 20% imo,the vote was 80% about immigration built on patriotic,we know better BS and lies

[aright]

56 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

Perhaps they shouldn’t encourage others to vote to trash their economy whilst insulating themselves from the trashing ... like Rees Mogg and Dyson. Not to mention the tax exile Barclay Brothers, owners of the Telegraph. 

 

Hypocrites one and all. Don’t do as I do, do as I say.

All I ever recall Dyson saying about Brexit was his opinion not his encouragement.  

Given Dyson hasn't been a UK Company since 2003 and it will continue to employ thousands of highly paid engineers at his Research Division in the UK,  what is your point?

Certainly Dyson has a dislike of the European Union but that was personal. his stance on Singapore or post Brexit Britain however is business. Singapore was chosen because of the local engineering talent and proximity to markets like China widely expected to become the worlds biggest electric car market. None of Dyson's existing products are manufactured in the UK which instead focuses on R&D and intellectual property. His vac cleaner production move happened long before Brexit . Since Brexit he has discontinued no production facilities in the UK, so again, what is your point?    

 

 

[nontabury]

8 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

too bad with shopping centres,

disturbs stockpiling before 29 March

 

 

Why stockpile. Better to ignore project fear from the remoaners, same as this lady in the Welsh assembly.

 

 

[7by7]

15 hours ago, nontabury said:

I cannot speak for all Brexiteers,but for myself, I would welcome another referendum. However it must be after the 2016 people’s referendum has been fully implemented.

As we had realize,we were been deceived in 1975, into joining what we thought was a trading block,it took us 41 yrs before we were granted the right to hold a people’s referendum. Therefore in all fairness, can I suggest, that the next referendum takes place 20yrs from our eventual departure from this so called union.

The best time to correct a mistake is before it is too late; not 20 years later!

 

15 hours ago, nontabury said:

If anyone is scared shitless, could it be the remoaners who are afraid that when we do escape the shackles of Brussels. All their prophesies of doom and protest fear, will be shown to be false. And that in years to come,future generations will thank us for our struggle to escape the bondage of the E.u.

As I have already said, I am scared of what will become of my country after Brexit. I very much doubt that future generations will be thanking us for making this huge mistake as they see the EU prosper and us become a second rate trading nation.

 

But it was having a second referendum before it is too late that I accuse Brexiteers being scared shitless of; not the results of Brexit. I know that you are not scared of that, because you have swallowed all the pie in the sky, cloud cuckoo land promises of Vote Leave and Leave.EU.

 

So will you answer the question I have repeatedly asked over the last 12 months; a question no Brexiteer has yet answered?

 

If you are so certain of the support for Brexit, why are you afraid of a second referendum?

[bomber]

8 minutes ago, nontabury said:

 

 Most of the contributors on this topic, who actually live in the U.K. such as myself,are in favour of Britexit. While on the other hand, most of those who support remain, are in fact none Brits who do not live in the U.K.

 I think that speaks volumes.

 

 

i live in the UK and didnt vote,after seeing the mess and what damage it is doing and knowing the lies told by the leave camp,i would be voting remain if there is another vote,probably a lot like me out there.

[vinny41]

1 minute ago, bomber said:

and what percentage of voters do you think understood what the CU and SM actually mean,less that 20% imo,the vote was 80% about immigration built on patriotic,we know better BS and lies

Clearly you haven't bothered to watch the video where Cameron states Single Market no less than 28 times

and how do you know what everyone voted on you don't know why I voted leave and I can assume you are unable to provide proof from all the 17,410,742 million people that voted to leave on why they voted to leave

[bomber]

2 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Clearly you haven't bothered to watch the video where Cameron states Single Market no less than 28 times

and how do you know what everyone voted on you don't know why I voted leave and I can assume you are unable to provide proof from all the 17,410,742 million people that voted to leave on why they voted to leave

i can say rocket science to the TV camera's 128 times,doesnt mean i or the the 17 million viewers understands anything about the workings of a rocket.

[welovesundaysatspace]

15 minutes ago, nontabury said:

 

 Most of the contributors on this topic, who actually live in the U.K. such as myself,are in favour of Britexit. While on the other hand, most of those who support remain, are in fact none Brits who do not live in the U.K.

Really? Mind to share your data with us?

 

Quote

 I think that speaks volumes

Like what? 

 

 

[nontabury]

1 hour ago, AlexRich said:

Perhaps they shouldn’t encourage others to vote to trash their economy whilst insulating themselves from the trashing ... like Rees Mogg and Dyson. Not to mention the tax exile Barclay Brothers, owners of the Telegraph. 

 

Hypocrites one and all. Don’t do as I do, do as I say.

You forgot to mention Richard Branson. Amongst many other remainers who prefer to live as a Tax exile. While wanting the rest of us to be subjects of the E.u

[sanemax]

5 minutes ago, bomber said:

i can say rocket science to the TV camera's 128 times,doesnt mean i or the the 17 million viewers understands anything about the workings of a rocket.

So,all the 17 million Brexit voters were uninformed, whilst all the 15 million remainers all were informed and knowledgeable about the E.U ? 

[Spidey]

1 hour ago, RuamRudy said:

A minor technicality, but to be British, you would need to come from the British Isles, would you not? The British Isles includes Ireland in its entirety. 

No. Great Britain. If it were the British Isles then people from the ROI would be British. Try selling that to an Irishman!

[melvinmelvin]

17 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Clearly you haven't bothered to watch the video where Cameron states Single Market no less than 28 times

and how do you know what everyone voted on you don't know why I voted leave and I can assume you are unable to provide proof from all the 17,410,742 million people that voted to leave on why they voted to leave

boom boom me, thats history look ahead

 

[damascase]

43 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

Quite right.  And on top of his work in the EP he also hosts a show on LBC 5 days a week on which he mostly debates Brexit. Far from silent! 

I didn’t realize he actually does any work in the EP...........

[7by7]

15 hours ago, nontabury said:

On ‎1‎/‎22‎/‎2019 at 10:51 AM, 7by7 said:

What about Thatcher?

 

She signed the Single European Act in 1986; which led to all the subsequent treaties on closer union.

 

Truth be told, the Brexiteers two biggest historical heroes, Churchill and Thatcher, were, in fact, supporters of a European Union!

I don’t think so.

 Have you actually listened to what she is saying in that video? I doubt it, either that or you didn't understand it.

 

She is using certain aspects of the EU, such as monetary union, to attack Kinnock, who she accuses of supporting those aspects, and Delors, who she hated with a passion..

 

Tell us, if she was so against the EU, so anti the UK's membership, why did she sign the Single European Act?

 

She was against a federal Europe, as is every Remainer I know.

 

She believed that, for all it's faults, the UK is better off inside the EU than out: Would Margaret Thatcher be in favor of Brexit?

[Spidey]

5 minutes ago, sanemax said:

So,all the 17 million Brexit voters were uninformed, whilst all the 15 million remainers all were informed and knowledgeable about the E.U ? 

No, it means all voters, whichever way they voted were uninformed, which is why we need a referendum now.

[7by7]

15 hours ago, nontabury said:

 

But I’m 100% sure,that if the people’s referendum in 2016 had resulted in a majority to remain, by just ONE vote, you would have called that result magnificent.????

You are wrong.

 

Indeed, with a margin that close i would still be calling for a second referendum.

 

Not that you'll believe me, of course.

[vinny41]

18 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

The best time to correct a mistake is before it is too late; not 20 years later!

 

As I have already said, I am scared of what will become of my country after Brexit. I very much doubt that future generations will be thanking us for making this huge mistake as they see the EU prosper and us become a second rate trading nation.

 

But it was having a second referendum before it is too late that I accuse Brexiteers being scared shitless of; not the results of Brexit. I know that you are not scared of that, because you have swallowed all the pie in the sky, cloud cuckoo land promises of Vote Leave and Leave.EU.

 

So will you answer the question I have repeatedly asked over the last 12 months; a question no Brexiteer has yet answered?

 

If you are so certain of the support for Brexit, why are you afraid of a second referendum?

If the majority of remainers are democratics and fully respect the results and the outcome of the 2016 EU referendum and they are not part of the small minority of remainers that stated they would reverse the result by any means possible then most leavers have no issue with a  2nd referendum on the deal

The options on the voting paper should be

1) exit with May deal 

2) exit with no deal

The decision to leave or remain was given in 2016 

[nauseus]

38 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

So which is correct?

 

A one word answer by Junker in the Dáil Éireann last October, or a detailed statement by Schinas yesterday?

 

As i said, no one, including the EU, wants a hard border; but one of the consequences of a no deal Brexit is very much likely to be one.

 

Will the EU send people to put up a border? Of course not.

 

Will the Irish and British governments put up customs checks etc. in the event of no deal? Probably. 

 

Because, as I said, the ludicrous suggestion by nauseus

 

is basically  the UK saying to the RoI that if you don't want a hard border between the UK then you have to do as we say and leave the UK.

 

That is why I called nauseus' suggestion moronic!

 

Both of you are still, after 2 and a half years, living in the cloud cuckoo land promised by Vote Leave and Leave.EU; a land where the EU simply roll over and give the UK everything we want.

 

As anyone with an ounce of common sense knows, those promises had no basis in real life. We are the ones leaving; the EU don't have to give us anything. Anything we do get is a concession on their part.

 

Of course, the standard pie in the sky leaver response to that is to accuse the EU of threatening and bullying tactics. The reality, of course, is somewhat different. They have the position of strength, not us. They may want a deal as much as we do; but that deal has to be on terms acceptable to all 27 remaining members. We cannot dictate the terms to them.

Yes, I feel that ultimately Eire would be better off outside the EU.

 

I did not say that they "had to do as we say" or even come under British rule.

 

Your posts add in a lot of untruths and actually lose a lot of credibility when you insult others.

   

[7by7]

12 hours ago, nauseus said:

Here you apply your own sensationalist and false interpretations, yet again. Boring but expected now.

So if you didn't mean you thought the RoI should leave the EU against the wishes of over 90% of it's people, what did you mean when you said

 

19 hours ago, nauseus said:

To avoid all this then Eire should leave the EU.

?

[dick dasterdly]

3 minutes ago, Spidey said:

No, it means all voters, whichever way they voted were uninformed, which is why we need a referendum now.

They might be slightly more informed now, but probably only as to the uk and eu govts' position on leaving the eu.

 

i.e. neither want it, and have no intention of coming to a reasonable deal - let alone talking about the most important aspect - a trade deal!

[nontabury]

31 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

 

If you are so certain of the support for Brexit, why are you afraid of a second referendum?

As I‘ve already explained, I‘m not afraid. Unlike yourself who is obviously afraid that, when we finally leave the E.u the U.K will prosper.

[7by7]

6 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Yes, I feel that ultimately Eire would be better off outside the EU.

 

I did not say that they "had to do as we say" or even come under British rule.

 

Your posts add in a lot of untruths and actually lose a lot of credibility when you insult others.

   

 I see that, as usual, having lost the argument you resort to childish insults.

 

You did not come out and say that the Roi had to return to British rule, but your suggestion that they meekly leave the EU to comply with our wishes certainly implied it; at last as far as relations with the EU are concerned!

[nauseus]

47 minutes ago, bomber said:

good,he can take jrb and bojo and the other 15% of MPs who are leave fans,this is the way it should of been from the start but Ukip had such a bad name he had to distance himself from them and team up with a few other morons from other party's,now he could be back for round 2,but nigel doesnt like to give things a second go does he ????,will it be new Ukip or will he alliance himself with Tommy's army.

Farage has distanced himself from UKIP because of their association with Robinson so your last bit of speculation is just that.