tebee Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 45 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said: Interesting article. I heard last night that Corbyn is now going to give his support to a 2nd referendum. If there is a 2nd ref he has a huge dilemma. If he campaigns for remain he risks upsetting the vast number of Labour Leave voters up north. If he goes with his true feelings and supports Leave, he'll alienate the Labour membership who are predominantly Remain. He'll no doubt calculate which path gives him the greater chance of becoming PM and choose that one. Of course, nothing like charting a path of what would be best for the country. With politicians like this on both sides, is it any wonder the country is in the mess it is in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nauseus Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 7 minutes ago, bomber said: correct,iam pleased you agree with me,the EU do indeed defend their currency,our govt and the BoE want to see the £ washed away,doing a pretty good job imo,i dont really care about greece or italy,if they want to leave the EU then they can but i know they wont. So which countries do you care about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nauseus Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 3 minutes ago, tebee said: Yes I keep thinking firstly of Cargo cults - Cargo cults often develop during a combination of crises. Under conditions of social stress, such a movement may form under the leadership of a charismatic figure. This leader may have a "vision" (or "myth-dream") of the future, often linked to an ancestral efficacy ("mana") thought to be recoverable by a return to traditional morality. This leader may characterize the present state as a dismantling of the old social order, meaning that social hierarchy and ego boundaries have been broken down. And of Nongqawuse She claimed that the spirits had told her that the the rest of her Xhosa people should destroy their crops and kill their cattle, the source of their wealth as well as food. In return the spirits would sweep the British settlers into the sea.The Xhosa would be able to replenish the granaries, and fill the kraals with more beautiful and healthier cattle. During this time many Xhosa herds were plagued with "lung sickness", possibly introduced by European cattle. Mhlakaza did not believe her at first but when Nongqawuse described one of the men, her uncle Mhalakaza, himself a diviner, recognised the description as that of his dead brother, and became convinced she was telling the truth. But sadly After they killed all their cattle the prophecies failed to come true leading to famine and the death of many people. In the aftermath of the crisis, the population of British Kaffraria dropped from 105,000 to fewer than 27,000 . Of course, those who believed said it was because there were some unbelievers whose faith was not strong enough, so the gods did not provided. Who will get blamed when Brexit crashes and burns ? The bad gods of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7by7 Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 19 minutes ago, nauseus said: And I think remainers are scared shitless that they won't get to have another go. To be honest, I am scared of what will become of the UK if we leave with no deal; which to be honest, looks more and more likely as Parliament can't agree a deal to present to the EU. Even if Parliament does manage to agree a deal, that deal still has to be acceptable to the EU. We are the ones leaving; we can't dictate terms. So what's left? Norway plus? That's leaving in name only, in which case we would be better not to leave at all. Canada plus? Took Canada 7 years to agree that deal, and it's still not fully implemented. BTW, what's the 'plus?' does it mean we'd remain in the customs union and retain the four freedoms? I can find many articles explaining what CETA is, but none explaining the plus bit. Does anyone here know? No deal and trade with the world on WTO terms? If doing that is so beneficial, why is Mauritania the only country to so do?` So yes, as i haven't swallowed the 'everything will work out for the best' BS of the Leave campaign, and as I live in the UK so unlike many here will be directly affected, I am scared about our future. But, unlike you Brexiteers, I am not scared of a second referendum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nauseus Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 3 minutes ago, tebee said: Of course, nothing like charting a path of what would be best for the country. With politicians like this on both sides, is it any wonder the country is in the mess it is in? Nope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvinmelvin Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 56 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said: If the other member states including Ireland agreed to a backstop time limit, why would a Swedish minister be compelled to block it? I'm sure he'd fall into line if push came to shove. yes, maybe, but he is not just a Swedish minister he is one of the best known diplomats in Europe, he said what he did, maybe because he thinks that is the best way forward, rest assured that was not an off the cuff remark - he knows that the view is widely supported people like that do not offer off the cuff remarks re sensitive issues but he as everybody else know that if you fancy progress - compromises are needed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouse Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 51 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said: Interesting article. I heard last night that Corbyn is now going to give his support to a 2nd referendum. If there is a 2nd ref he has a huge dilemma. If he campaigns for remain he risks upsetting the vast number of Labour Leave voters up north. If he goes with his true feelings and supports Leave, he'll alienate the Labour membership who are predominantly Remain. He'll no doubt calculate which path gives him the greater chance of becoming PM and choose that one. One things for sure, he doesn't give a damn about the country. I can't abide the man or the rest of his lacklustre "team". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bomber Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 3 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said: Then you should be fine with a Norway or Switzerland model. Leave implemented, direction respected. Unfortunately, Brexiteers feel entitled to tell us what the electorate had in mind (and what not) when they voted leave. the UK is not a norway or a switzerland,to much debt and too poor to mentioned in the same breath as those two nations,how about a bulgaria + or a romania ++ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tebee Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 1 hour ago, CG1 Blue said: If the other member states including Ireland agreed to a backstop time limit, why would a Swedish minister be compelled to block it? I'm sure he'd fall into line if push came to shove. But the only way Ireland is lightly to agree, is if we agree to having a referendum on Irish reunion so the backstop is no longer needed. Can't see the DUP agreeing to that ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nauseus Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 1 minute ago, 7by7 said: To be honest, I am scared of what will become of the UK if we leave with no deal; which to be honest, looks more and more likely as Parliament can't agree a deal to present to the EU. Even if Parliament does manage to agree a deal, that deal still has to be acceptable to the EU. We are the ones leaving; we can't dictate terms. So what's left? Norway plus? That's leaving in name only, in which case we would be better not to leave at all. Canada plus? Took Canada 7 years to agree that deal, and it's still not fully implemented. BTW, what's the 'plus?' does it mean we'd remain in the customs union and retain the four freedoms? I can find many articles explaining what CETA ia, but non explaining the plus bit. Does anyone here know? No deal and trade with the world on WTO terms? If doing that is so beneficial, why is Mauritania the only country to so do?` So yes, as i haven't swallowed the 'everything will work out for the best' BS of the Leave campaign, and as I live in the UK so unlike many here will be directly affected, I am scared about our future. But, unlike you Brexiteers, I am not scared of a second referendum. I also worry about what will become of the UK, if we don't leave the EU. Of course you aren't scared of having a second referendum. It's what you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bomber Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 7 minutes ago, nauseus said: So which countries do you care about? UK as the last i heard it was the only one leaving the EU or has something changed ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7by7 Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 24 minutes ago, nauseus said: 33 minutes ago, 7by7 said: Kindly explain how a narrow win for Remain would be unfinished business requiring a second referendum, but a narrow win for Leave is a magnificent victory. I was referring to the victory being magnificent. The other rubbish concerns the words of just one man, who is not even a part of the UK government, so why should I either explain or care? Not by any intelligent use of the word can a victory by just 3.7% be described as 'magnificent!' Narrow, extremely narrow is the truth of it. I'm glad you finally agree that Farage spouts rubbish! But his words were echoed by many leavers at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nauseus Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 1 minute ago, bomber said: UK as the last i heard it was the only one leaving the EU or has something changed ???? If you agree with the Pound being "washed away" then it's hard to see that you have any love for the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tebee Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 6 minutes ago, 7by7 said: Canada plus? Took Canada 7 years to agree that deal, and it's still not fully implemented. BTW, what's the 'plus?' does it mean we'd remain in the customs union and retain the four freedoms? I can find many articles explaining what CETA is, but none explaining the plus bit. Does anyone here know? The plus is an agreement on services which have only limited coverage in the existing deal. The CU on it's own really gives us very little, staying in it maybe solves 5% of the problems. It's the SM that would solve 90% of the post brexit problem, but that would mean accepting FOM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bomber Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 13 minutes ago, damascase said: It could be different in the case of a separate Customs Union Agreement between the UK and the EU. Look at Turkey, with a Customs Union arrangment with the EU covering, basically, non-agricultural products while being able to conclude its own FTA’s. lets have a Turkey ++++ after all boris did claim to be turkish,he will have good contacts to get us going.not sure Tommy and his cronies will be very happy about it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouse Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 49 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said: But is the GFA really at risk? All parties have confirmed they will not put up a hard border under any circumstances. With a 5 year sunset they would have around 7 years to tweak and improve existing VAT border checks. The CU means still paying into the EU, allowing freedom of movement and no ability to negotiate trade deals independently. Right? No. Wrong. UK would not be able to negotiate new trade deals. Good. The other issues relate to SM It doesn't matter the actual effect of the border. Just the idea is a perfectly good excuse for sectarian violence. Just accept CU and fix Ireland and all manufacturing industry requiring JIT delivery and Tariff free access. Obvious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nauseus Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 3 minutes ago, 7by7 said: By by intelligent use of the word can a victory by 3.7% be described as 'magnificent!' Narrow is the truth of it. I'm glad you finally agree that Farage spouts rubbish! But his words were echoed by many leavers at the time. Well, the magnificent word came from you. Narrow is the truth of it. I actually agree with Farage most of the time. ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CG1 Blue Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 7 minutes ago, tebee said: But the only way Ireland is lightly to agree, is if we agree to having a referendum on Irish reunion so the backstop is no longer needed. Can't see the DUP agreeing to that ! Yet another ulterior motive affecting the negotiations. The Taoiseach and his desire for a united Ireland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7by7 Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 7 minutes ago, nauseus said: I also worry about what will become of the UK, if we don't leave the EU. Don't; because we will carry on as before with all the benefits of membership. Yes, there will be obligations as well; but unlike you Brexiteers we Remainers realise that we can't have the benefits without the obligations. Whilst that may not be perfect, it is far better than the chaos of Brexit. A chaos which, if you live in Thailand, will little affect you; if at all. 10 minutes ago, nauseus said: Of course you aren't scared of having a second referendum. It's what you want Indeed, and I believe that with the facts out in the open and the hype shown to be just that, then remain will win by a significant margin. Whereas you Brexiteers don't want a second referendum because, despite all the bluster, you know deep in your hearts that you will probably lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tebee Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 5 minutes ago, Grouse said: Just accept CU and fix Ireland and all manufacturing industry requiring JIT delivery and Tariff free access. Obvious But only CU + Sm fixes those problems Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bomber Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 1 minute ago, nauseus said: If you agree with the Pound being "washed away" then it's hard to see that you have any love for the UK. not the greatest place on planet earth tbh,majority of the benefit scroungers and leave voters down my local have said if they win the lottery they are moving to Spain,if its that good why dont they stay here with their winnings,strange people Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouse Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 51 minutes ago, nauseus said: Already rattyfied. But I'm not molefied Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nauseus Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 1 minute ago, 7by7 said: Don't; because we will carry on as before with all the benefits of membership. Yes, there will be obligations as well; but unlike you Brexiteers we Remainers realise that we can't have the benefits without the obligations. Whilst that may not be perfect, it is far better than the chaos of Brexit. A chaos which, if you live in Thailand, will little affect you; if at all. Indeed, and I believe that with the facts out in the open and the hype shown to be just that, then remain will win by a significant margin. Whereas you Brexiteers don't want a second referendum because, despite all the bluster, you know deep in your hearts that you will probably lose. You seem to be so excited that you are now just posting really assumptive and misinformed gibberish. Drinkies for me now - a swift half might be good for you too. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7by7 Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 6 minutes ago, nauseus said: Well, the magnificent word came from you. I said that Farage and others claimed the victory to be magnificent; I did not call it such myself. You did, though 37 minutes ago, nauseus said: I was referring to the victory being magnificent. Yet now you say 8 minutes ago, nauseus said: Narrow is the truth of it. As you obviously have difficulty in remembering what you have posted, even if it was less than an hour ago, maybe you should take notes? 8 minutes ago, nauseus said: I actually agree with Farage most of the time. ???? Yet you say he spouts rubbish! More note taking required by you, methinks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nauseus Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 1 minute ago, Grouse said: But I'm not molefied Nor dignified. ???? Time for a Stoli. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouse Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 19 minutes ago, tebee said: But the only way Ireland is lightly to agree, is if we agree to having a referendum on Irish reunion so the backstop is no longer needed. Can't see the DUP agreeing to that ! Does anyone care what the DUP opinion on anything is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7by7 Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 1 minute ago, nauseus said: You seem to be so excited that you are now just posting really assumptive and misinformed gibberish. Then educate me. Except you never do; you are only capable of childish retorts like the above. Maybe as well as taking notes you should take more water with it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nauseus Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 Just now, 7by7 said: I said that Farage and others claimed the victory to be magnificent; I did not call it such myself. You did, though Yet now you say As you obviously have difficulty in remembering what you have posted, even if it was less than an hour ago, maybe you should take notes? Yet you say he spouts rubbish! More note taking required by you, methinks! And some reading comprehension lessons for you! G'nite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouse Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, nauseus said: Nor dignified. ???? Time for a Stoli. Thanks for the Wind in the Willows reference! I'll get the dragon to read it to me tonight. Better than her damnable lullabies! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7by7 Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 17 minutes ago, tebee said: The plus is an agreement on services which have only limited coverage in the existing deal. The CU on it's own really gives us very little, staying in it maybe solves 5% of the problems. It's the SM that would solve 90% of the post brexit problem, but that would mean accepting FOM. Thanks for that. So, essentially, Canada plus, like Norway plus, would be Brexit in name only. I wonder if those Brexiteers pushing for one or the other realise this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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