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Brexit bedlam - May's EU divorce deal crushed by 230 votes in parliament


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11 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

Not right now.

higher up or in another thread (there are way too many Brexit threads). don't know where to look

 

you opined that

if nobody does anything now,

UK will not automatically exit on the 29th.

 

could you expand a bit on that?

 

 

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8 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

or in another thread (there are way too many Brexit threads).

Yes, TV "world news" does look like Trump V Brexit for the most threads, a couple of days ago every thread on the front page was Brexit or Trump related,

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6 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

higher up or in another thread (there are way too many Brexit threads). don't know where to look

you opined that

if nobody does anything now,

UK will not automatically exit on the 29th.

could you expand a bit on that?

The vote a few days ago which the government narrowly lost ahead of last night's vote. It was lost 303-296.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/08/theresa-may-suffers-commons-defeat-over-no-deal-brexit

There cannot be a no-deal Brexit without the authorisation of Parliament.

 

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12 minutes ago, Basil B said:

Who did not vote?

 

OK lets look at the math's

 

there are 650 and 202 + 432 = 634 so 16 MP's did not vote.

 

We know the speaker does not vote and 7 Sinn Fein MP's do not attend, so who were the other 8?

Have you factored in the sick and paired MPs?

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1 hour ago, tomacht8 said:

That's roughly estimated. Brexit has greatly weakened the EU and Europe as a whole. The economic uncertainty has the UK + EU monetary currencies brought significant losses by international comparison. This is a thaiforum.

Just look at the currency development since june 2016 compared to thai baht. Hooray or what?

No hoorays but THB has strengthened as well (against most currencies). GBP down with anti Brexit sentiment. Up a bit today as the big banks probably see a better chance of Brexit being scuppered altogether. It's the way it goes. 

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25 minutes ago, Basil B said:

by the time we get to hold another referendum we will be out of of the EU by default in a totally disorderly Brexit,

That is not a binary yes/no, but rather estimation of risk of happening ie 60/40 or 50/50 etc.

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2 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

The vote a few days ago which the government narrowly lost ahead of last night's vote. It was lost 303-296.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/08/theresa-may-suffers-commons-defeat-over-no-deal-brexit

There cannot be a no-deal Brexit without the authorisation of Parliament.

 

 

 

I see, remember now, the Cooper et al fix to Tax/Finance acts - I take it you refer to.

 

And this legal hack overrules the statute already in place for guiding the exit?

 

ta

 

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49 minutes ago, billd766 said:

It was called "At the sign of the Swinging Cymbal" by Brass Incorporated.

 

I remember the music very well but not who played it.

 

It was the theme Music for Pick of the Pops.  My Sunday afternoon favourite and I used to steal my Mum's Dansette transistor radio and go to Poole Park to listen to it with my mates.

 

:offtopic: Totally.  :sorry: (not really)

Yes, good old "Fluff".

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6 minutes ago, nauseus said:

No hoorays but THB has strengthened as well (against most currencies). GBP down with anti Brexit sentiment. Up a bit today as the big banks probably see a better chance of Brexit being scuppered altogether. It's the way it goes. 

never mind GBP,

baht has also improved against Norwegian oil dollars, not happy

 

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20 minutes ago, Basil B said:

Who did not vote?

 

OK lets look at the math's

 

there are 650 and 202 + 432 = 634 so 16 MP's did not vote.

 

We know the speaker does not vote and 7 Sinn Fein MP's do not attend, so who were the other 8?

Dianne Abbott?

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8 minutes ago, Basil B said:

Yes, TV "world news" does look like Trump V Brexit for the most threads, a couple of days ago every thread on the front page was Brexit or Trump related,

It pretty much still is dominated by Trump/Brexit threads!

 

Understandable to a certain extent, but the number of 'new' Trump threads (which seem to produce far fewer responses 'cos there are so many about every single, tiny issue?) is a bit baffling.

 

To look on the bright side, the less interesting Trump/Brexit threads don't seem to last very long?

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If twisting my words to attach convenient labels suits you so be it. I proffered a provocative view that democracy is not all its cracked to be meaning that if it is relegated to a non-living set of rigid tenets that do not allow for rapidly changing circumstances it is not workable. The Brexit experience was characterized by clumsy execution and imperfect knowledge. Today we are in possession of more knowledge, and should not be shackled by a referendum that may have been been made obsolete, especially if it means a hard landing.
 
It's easy to take the temperature of the public again with another confirmatory referendum to ensure that's what the public want now, because circumstances have changed, Brexit execution was a disaster, and a hard brexit is worse than no brexit. There is nothing undemocratic about any of this, though it does not serve the function of freezing in time the 2 year old results the brexiters want to achieve, without accounting for changes in the intervening period. That doesn't sound like true democracy to me. 
Circumstances have only changed in the sense that politicians over the last two years, instead of accepting the result and getting on with finding a way to successfully leave the union, have done everything they can to try and prevent us leaving and make it more difficult. None of that is the fault of the 17 plus million who voted to leave and who are still awaiting for the result to be enacted. By allowing another referendum, you'll be potentially rewarding politicians for having acted in the way they did. And to repeat my earlier point, all well and good when it happens to result in the overturning of a decision you didn't agree with in the first place, but wait until the shoe is on the other foot and let's see if you're still as flexible about democracy as you are now.

Sent from my SM-G610F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

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3 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

I see, remember now, the Cooper et al fix to Tax/Finance acts - I take it you refer to.

 

And this legal hack overrules the statute already in place for guiding the exit?

 

ta

 

Agreed that amendment does not actually stop Brexit.

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11 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

The vote a few days ago which the government narrowly lost ahead of last night's vote. It was lost 303-296.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/08/theresa-may-suffers-commons-defeat-over-no-deal-brexit

There cannot be a no-deal Brexit without the authorisation of Parliament.

 

And that's the worrying part - bearing in mind the majority of MPs support remaining within the eu.

 

Hence the ever continuing 'kicking the can down the road'.....

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