EU leaders express dismay after May's Brexit defeat

[Grouse]

8 minutes ago, evadgib said:

Self styled 'luvvies' are suitably cocooned from the world the rest of us live in therefore I understand how someone like him can be taken in.

Then we should strive to improve the world you live in. Brexit will not assist with that I regret to tell you ....

 

[melvinmelvin]

3 hours ago, mfd101 said:

Preferential voting. Australia's been doing it at both federal & state levels since the 1920s. Gives a much more mathematically accurate outcome when you have more than 2 parties or proposals to vote for.

 

But I guess that's too rational for most Brits who pride themselves on their eccentricity. Rather like never actually mentioning the words 'federal' or 'federal system' in their presence ...

right

only non medieval thingies accepted in Westminster are microphones and cooling systems for draft beer.

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, evadgib said:

Thanks for posting. I managed 3 mins and 48 seconds despite trying quite hard to view all of it. I like Stephen Fry but that is complete and utter hogwash and does not reflect the behaviour of what many here consider to be the average ODB (ordinary decent brexiter).

Agree. It's part of PF.

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, Grouse said:

Then you should read more widely and avoid being grouped with those ignorant people who hold strong views based on lies, misunderstanding and lack of knowledge. I thought the info graphics and cartoon images might have helped you.

Back to condescension so soon after Christmas? Shame.

[Scott]

Off-topic post and reply removed.

 

[CG1 Blue]

13 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Do you follow the news at least from time to time? Do you have any idea what it means for the UK to leave without deal?

There is no such thing as just leave. Too many things have to be sorted out. Lots of Brits in the EU, lots of EU citizens in the UK, flights, insurance, lots of business, etc. You can't just make it stop from one day to the next.

And all that was explained again and again. But some people just don't listen...

Nobody (the UK or the EU) would allow 'no deal' to be as abrupt as you suggest. In reality both sides would agree on a timetable in order for contingency plans to be put in place for flights, ports, and all the rest of it. 

When the doom mongers talk about a no deal catastrophe, they assume wrongly that both sides would just sit back on 29th March and let chaos ensue. That would be damaging for both sides, so they will put measures in place to ensure it happens in an orderly way. 

 

The EU will want to limit disruption as much as the UK will. 

[welovesundaysatspace]

6 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

Nobody (the UK or the EU) would allow 'no deal' to be as abrupt as you suggest. In reality both sides would agree on a timetable in order for contingency plans to be put in place for flights, ports, and all the rest of it. 

When the doom mongers talk about a no deal catastrophe, they assume wrongly that both sides would just sit back on 29th March and let chaos ensue. That would be damaging for both sides, so they will put measures in place to ensure it happens in an orderly way. 

 

The EU will want to limit disruption as much as the UK will. 

How long would it take to put such measures in place?

[Loiner]

How long would it take to put such measures in place?

The existing measures are already in place. The UK government DEFRA are busy making new ones for us right now, albeit it late.
Project Fear is simply not true. The flights will not be denied landing nor will ships be blocked at the ports.
Even the biggest Euro jobsworths will not be allowed to do that by their own business leaders. Trade will go on.


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[evadgib]

13 hours ago, Grouse said:

Then we should strive to improve the world you live in. Brexit will not assist with that I regret to tell you ....

 

The world I live in renders me less likely to fall for something produced by a group known to hold different views to my own & narrated by a professional, very convincing and much loved actor on their payroll.

I didn't believe Blackadder shot his pidgeon either ????

[welovesundaysatspace]

1 hour ago, Loiner said:

The existing measures are already in place. The UK government DEFRA are busy making new ones for us right now, albeit it late.
Project Fear is simply not true. The flights will not be denied landing nor will ships be blocked at the ports.
Even the biggest Euro jobsworths will not be allowed to do that by their own business leaders. Trade will go on.


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To be honest, I don’t know how long it will take or what “the biggest Euro jobsworths” and “their own business leaders” will do. But if a Brexiteer says so, I am confident everything will run smoothly and we’ll planned on Day-1 of a no-deal. 

[Loiner]

To be honest, I don’t know how long it will take or what “the biggest Euro jobsworths” and “their own business leaders” will do. But if a Brexiteer says so, I am confident everything will run smoothly and we’ll planned on Day-1 of a no-deal. 

Lets make it easier for you: The sky will not fall on 29th March when we have left with No Deal.
You are Chicken Licken
EU and May are Foxy Woxy
I’m Cocky Wocky.




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[melvinmelvin]

19 minutes ago, Loiner said:

Lets make it easier for you: The sky will not fall on 29th March when we have left with No Deal.
You are Chicken Licken
EU and May are Foxy Woxy
I’m Cocky Wocky.




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that no-deal in March might not surface

 

yesterday Barnier indicated that it might be possible to go back and alter the deal

 

so far unofficial, signals were emitted from both Germany and France that

they might agree to push the Brexit to March 2020.

 

so new scenarios may popup

 

[Loiner]

Between two EU countries [emoji85]

EU countries with different currencies, different VAT rates, different tax regimes.
Add to that Non-EU is not a big leap unless you really want it to be.


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[Grouse]

Just now, Loiner said:

EU countries with different currencies, different VAT rates, different tax regimes.
Add to that Non-EU is not a big leap unless you really want it to be.


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Both in CU and SM.

 

What precisely do you not like about those?

[Loiner]

As staying in the CU and SM would solve everything what exactly do you personally object to? Please explain? Precisely.

I object to the EU’s four freedoms. Free movement is a no no absolutely.
I object to the Common External Tariff. UK must be able to decide on its own tariffs with non-EU countries.
I object to the Common Commercial Policy. The UK must be able to make its own trade policies in accordance with our interests not the EU’s.
Allowing goods to pass over borders without extra commercial customs checks is fine. We can stay in CU and SM for that.


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[Grouse]

43 minutes ago, Loiner said:

 

I object to the EU’s four freedoms. Free movement is a no no absolutely.
I object to the Common External Tariff. UK must be able to decide on its own tariffs with non-EU countries.
I object to the Common Commercial Policy. The UK must be able to make its own trade policies in accordance with our interests not the EU’s.
Allowing goods to pass over borders without extra commercial customs checks is fine. We can stay in CU and SM for that.


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Yes, as I suspected, you think you know a great deal but are, in fact misguided.

 

You would leave the SM because you don't like freedom of movement. Fair enough but why don't we just apply the controls available to us? Other EU countries do. Also, EU immigration is no longer a problem. I would like to see limits to immigration based on population density. However, overall, I prefer EU immigration because our customs and social mores are reasonably similar. On top of that, freedom of movement is a boon for our own young people and pensioners in particular. Your view on this point is both blinkered AND outdated

 

Concerning the CU; you do realize that this fixes both the Ireland issue and our JIT manufacturing? You really think more advantageous trade deals with the USA or China will be more likely after Brexit than as a member of a 500M market? I don't think so.

 

I could go on but those points should be enough to encourage you to read a little more?

[Loiner]

Yes, as I suspected, you think you know a great deal but are, in fact misguided.
 
You would leave the SM because you don't like freedom of movement. Fair enough but why don't we just apply the controls available to us? Other EU countries do. Also, EU immigration is no longer a problem. I would like to see limits to immigration based on population density. However, overall, I prefer EU immigration because our customs and social mores are reasonably similar. On top of that, freedom of movement is a boon for our own young people and pensioners in particular. Your view on this point is both blinkered AND outdated
 
Concerning the CU; you do realize that this fixes both the Ireland issue and our JIT manufacturing? You really think more advantageous trade deals with the USA or China will be more likely after Brexit than as a member of a 500M market? I don't think so.
 
I could go on but those points should be enough to encourage you to read a little more?

No need to tell me what I think I know, cos you know nuthin’ Jon Snow.

Free movement will continue to be a problem while ever the door remains open. I don’t have to choose between the eastern EU scroungers; or Merkel’s Million Muslim guests; or the Non-EU gimmigrants. They are all not wanted. Brexit border control at least closes that legal door to some of them.

Over the past 40 years it has NOT been and never will be a boon for our young people. They have lost countless jobs to EU migrants in UK and ‘exported’ manufacturing plants. Much of the EU has higher youth unemployment than us. UK pensioners in the EU are a just a massive freebie to bolster the stricken Spanish economy. My view is on this is focused, very current and shared by millions who won the vote for Brexit.

The NI border is a red herring. JIT is a simple logistical exercise of planning deliveries to allow for the spurious port delays. British trade deals with the rest of the world will undoubtedly bring more trade, as an ADDITION to what we continue to do with the EU. Without the EU restrictive practices we will do both.

Please don’t bother to go on anymore. I’ve read enough of your Remainer rant thanks.


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[Grouse]

37 minutes ago, Loiner said:

No need to tell me what I think I know, cos you know nuthin’ Jon Snow.

Free movement will continue to be a problem while ever the door remains open. I don’t have to choose between the eastern EU scroungers; or Merkel’s Million Muslim guests; or the Non-EU gimmigrants. They are all not wanted. Brexit border control at least closes that legal door to some of them.

Over the past 40 years it has NOT been and never will be a boon for our young people. They have lost countless jobs to EU migrants in UK and ‘exported’ manufacturing plants. Much of the EU has higher youth unemployment than us. UK pensioners in the EU are a just a massive freebie to bolster the stricken Spanish economy. My view is on this is focused, very current and shared by millions who won the vote for Brexit.

The NI border is a red herring. JIT is a simple logistical exercise of planning deliveries to allow for the spurious port delays. British trade deals with the rest of the world will undoubtedly bring more trade, as an ADDITION to what we continue to do with the EU. Without the EU restrictive practices we will do both.

Please don’t bother to go on anymore. I’ve read enough of your Remainer rant thanks.


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I will not bother to unpick your misunderstandings and falsehoods as you clearly have a closed mind. You didn't even understand my points never mind find common ground.

 

Ignored 

[Loiner]

I will not bother to unpick your misunderstandings and falsehoods as you clearly have a closed mind. You didn't even understand my points never mind find common ground.
 
Ignored 

Thankyou


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[rixalex]

Yes, as I suspected, you think you know a great deal but are, in fact misguided.
 
You would leave the SM because you don't like freedom of movement. Fair enough but why don't we just apply the controls available to us? Other EU countries do. Also, EU immigration is no longer a problem. I would like to see limits to immigration based on population density. However, overall, I prefer EU immigration because our customs and social mores are reasonably similar. On top of that, freedom of movement is a boon for our own young people and pensioners in particular. Your view on this point is both blinkered AND outdated
 
Concerning the CU; you do realize that this fixes both the Ireland issue and our JIT manufacturing? You really think more advantageous trade deals with the USA or China will be more likely after Brexit than as a member of a 500M market? I don't think so.
 
I could go on but those points should be enough to encourage you to read a little more?

That's rich. Calling someone blinkered and outdated having just expressed the view that we should give preference to immigrants from the EU because they (supposedly) have more in common with us.

Judging immigrants purely by their passports is not only grossly unfair and discriminatory, it's also grossly inaccurate.

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[RuamRudy]

21 hours ago, evadgib said:

Self styled 'luvvies' are suitably cocooned from the world the rest of us live in therefore I understand how someone like him can be taken in.

 

Here's something for you & the board...

 

Not all of them - Liz sure knew how to cut through the BS and get straight to the heart of the matter. I am sure she is also ecstatic at the prospect of higher powered hair tongs.

 

[Grouse]

3 minutes ago, rixalex said:

That's rich. Calling someone blinkered and outdated having just expressed the view that we should give preference to immigrants from the EU because they (supposedly) have more in common with us.

Judging immigrants purely by their passports is not only grossly unfair and discriminatory, it's also grossly inaccurate.

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Well you are entitled to your view as am I.

 

I do feel that Europeans generally fit better into our society because they have more in common

 

I would also give preference in exchange for trade benefits

 

I also feel that reciprocal rights are valuable

[steve187]

On 1/16/2019 at 11:31 AM, OneMoreFarang said:

Do you follow the news at least from time to time? Do you have any idea what it means for the UK to leave without deal?

There is no such thing as just leave. Too many things have to be sorted out. Lots of Brits in the EU, lots of EU citizens in the UK, flights, insurance, lots of business, etc. You can't just make it stop from one day to the next.

And all that was explained again and again. But some people just don't listen...

the UK has had since June 2016 to plan, plan and plan, spain in not going to kick out the Brits.

[nontabury]

10 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

Not all of them - Liz sure knew how to cut through the BS and get straight to the heart of the matter. I am sure she is also ecstatic at the prospect of higher powered hair tongs.

 

What ever you do, do not try and take Nigel Farage’s speech down, as he knows more about the workings of the Bureaucrats in Brussels, than any other U.K politician. Much better to quote a second rate lovey.

 

 

[steve187]

14 hours ago, Grouse said:

Well you are entitled to your view as am I.

 

I do feel that Europeans generally fit better into our society because they have more in common

 

I would also give preference in exchange for trade benefits

 

I also feel that reciprocal rights are valuable

more in common than the Aussies, Canadians and they speak English well sort of, the Europeans dont want to settle in the UK, they want to send the money they earn and claim back to their families, only a small percentage learn to speak English in my experience. a bit like the older indians.

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, steve187 said:

more in common than the Aussies, Canadians and they speak English well sort of, the Europeans dont want to settle in the UK, they want to send the money they earn and claim back to their families, only a small percentage learn to speak English in my experience. a bit like the older indians.

How many Australians and Canadians wish to immigrate to the UK? 3?

 

Joking apart 10x as many Brits emigrate to Aus as the reverse!

 

I don't count language in my consideration of customs and social mores but this is a big deal for you clearly. Are you monoglot?

 

Most, but not all EU languages have common roots and are therefore not difficult to master (I exclude Finnish and Hungarian for example). However, we could specify conversational English within 3 months if that would please you.

 

I like being a member of our local club!

[rixalex]

16 hours ago, Grouse said:

Well you are entitled to your view as am I.

 

I do feel that Europeans generally fit better into our society because they have more in common

 

I would also give preference in exchange for trade benefits

 

I also feel that reciprocal rights are valuable

I do feel that Europeans generally fit better into our society because they have more in common

 

Maybe they do. Maybe they don't. The point is, you can't make that judgement call merely by looking at someone's passport.

 

I also feel that reciprocal rights are valuable

 

Funny that. Of course for you, a British man living in the EU, reciprocal rights are very valuable. How valuable are they for the rest of British people though?

 

What percentage of British people get to take advantage of reciprocal rights by using services in some other EU country? 1%? 2%? 3% 4%?

 

How does that percentage compare with the percentage of British people living in Britain who are now sharing local services with a significant number of immigrants from the EU, thanks to reciprocal rights?

[Grouse]

11 minutes ago, rixalex said:

I do feel that Europeans generally fit better into our society because they have more in common

 

Maybe they do. Maybe they don't. The point is, you can't make that judgement call merely by looking at someone's passport.

 

I also feel that reciprocal rights are valuable

 

Funny that. Of course for you, a British man living in the EU, reciprocal rights are very valuable. How valuable are they for the rest of British people though?

 

What percentage of British people get to take advantage of reciprocal rights by using services in some other EU country? 1%? 2%? 3% 4%?

 

How does that percentage compare with the percentage of British people living in Britain who are now sharing local services with a significant number of immigrants from the EU, thanks to reciprocal rights?

Well that's an understandable view point

 

It is interesting that so few British take up the opportunity to live, love, work and retire in the host of places available to us. Personally, I blame poor teaching of foreign languages. I'm no linguist but I got to grips with Danish and German and have enough French to get arrested!

 

I note that EU immigrants are net contributors. I mean both in terms of contributing significantly to our coffers and taking jobs that Brits are either unwilling or unable to perform.

 

BTW I still reside in Thailand but I shall retire to Denmark.

 

What happened to the Auf wiedersehen, pet generation?

 

Finally with an aging population, we need working age immigrants. We've already turned around EU immigration just through being unpleasant; where do you want immigrants coming from? 

[melvinmelvin]

26 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Well that's an understandable view point

 

It is interesting that so few British take up the opportunity to live, love, work and retire in the host of places available to us. Personally, I blame poor teaching of foreign languages. I'm no linguist but I got to grips with Danish and German and have enough French to get arrested!

 

I note that EU immigrants are net contributors. I mean both in terms of contributing significantly to our coffers and taking jobs that Brits are either unwilling or unable to perform.

 

BTW I still reside in Thailand but I shall retire to Denmark.

 

What happened to the Auf wiedersehen, pet generation?

 

Finally with an aging population, we need working age immigrants. We've already turned around EU immigration just through being unpleasant; where do you want immigrants coming from? 

To manage the situation with an aging population

which is most effective

Brits getting more children or importing working age foreigners?

 

[Grouse]

7 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

To manage the situation with an aging population

which is most effective

Brits getting more children or importing working age foreigners?

 

Obviously better to bring in working age Europeans during their most productive years