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EU leaders express dismay after May's Brexit defeat


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27 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Currently we leave at end of March; that's law. However law may be changed by replacement with new law.

 

CONs will win the confidence vote which causes a problem for Corbyn. Good 

 

May should link with Labour moderates, Lib Dems and SNP to deliver my plan discussed above which is similar to N+

 

This could work and would split the CONs. Good. I hope LAB also splits.

 

Time for center to take the lead

 

Ill take abet on that!

 

Now let's see the leavers complain?

 

Wouldn't be so sure about Corbyn losing if it comes to a general election, especially not if May is still leading the Cons she's done an absolutely terrible job the only positive thing to say about her is she's persistently refused to resign, which is a strange compliment but when you consider that's what every other Tory has done  it makes you realise there isn't even a party to vote for. That aside the main reason I want to leave the EU is because the Tory's and New Labour helped turn it into a Neoliberal train wreck, so there's no way in hell I'd ever vote Tory.

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Currently we leave at end of March; that's law. However law may be changed by replacement with new law.
 
CONs will win the confidence vote which causes a problem for Corbyn. Good 
 
May should link with Labour moderates, Lib Dems and SNP to deliver my plan discussed above which is similar to N+
 
This could work and would split the CONs. Good. I hope LAB also splits.
 
Time for center to take the lead
 
Ill take abet on that!
 
Now let's see the leavers complain?

Even as an ardent Brexiteer I have no issue with a cross party approach to deliver a plan. But it must be a real plan to deliver the best for the UK within the principle of a full Brexit. No fudges; no attempts to satisfy everybody; no BRINO; no concessions to the EU.

Finding the Lab moderates to do this would be difficult. They are only about taking advantage of this situation to further their own party in power ambition. With only the odd notable exception, all their MPs are just as bad - only about their own jobs and following the party line.

My own Leave constituency is saddled with a young slip of a lass from that there London. A patronising plant into a safe seat, telling us she’s cares about our jobs for us, while she’s taken the seat of a local candidate. Also has the brass neck to tell us it better for us to Remain.

We will remember and they’ll all be gone come next general election.


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4 minutes ago, Loiner said:


Even as an ardent Brexiteer I have no issue with a cross party approach to deliver a plan. But it must be a real plan to deliver the best for the UK within the principle of a full Brexit. No fudges; no attempts to satisfy everybody; no BRINO; no concessions to the EU.

Finding the Lab moderates to do this would be difficult. They are only about taking advantage of this situation to further their own party in power ambition. With only the odd notable exception, all their MPs are just as bad - only about their own jobs and following the party line.

My own Leave constituency is saddled with a young slip of a lass from that there London. A patronising plant into a safe seat, telling us she’s cares about our jobs for us, while she’s taken the seat of a local candidate. Also has the brass neck to tell us it better for us to Remain.

We will remember and they’ll all be gone come next general election.


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So, what is your solution? Specifically, what will you accept, not accept and why?

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1 hour ago, Chartist said:

 

Wouldn't be so sure about Corbyn losing if it comes to a general election, especially not if May is still leading the Cons she's done an absolutely terrible job the only positive thing to say about her is she's persistently refused to resign, which is a strange compliment but when you consider that's what every other Tory has done  it makes you realise there isn't even a party to vote for. That aside the main reason I want to leave the EU is because the Tory's and New Labour helped turn it into a Neoliberal train wreck, so there's no way in hell I'd ever vote Tory.

How will you bring about a GE before 2022??

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17 minutes ago, Loiner said:


Even as an ardent Brexiteer I have no issue with a cross party approach to deliver a plan. But it must be a real plan to deliver the best for the UK within the principle of a full Brexit. No fudges; no attempts to satisfy everybody; no BRINO; no concessions to the EU.

Finding the Lab moderates to do this would be difficult. They are only about taking advantage of this situation to further their own party in power ambition. With only the odd notable exception, all their MPs are just as bad - only about their own jobs and following the party line.

My own Leave constituency is saddled with a young slip of a lass from that there London. A patronising plant into a safe seat, telling us she’s cares about our jobs for us, while she’s taken the seat of a local candidate. Also has the brass neck to tell us it better for us to Remain.

We will remember and they’ll all be gone come next general election. 


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"Finding the Lab moderates to do this would be difficult. They are only about taking advantage of this situation to further their own party in power ambition. With only the odd notable exception, all their MPs are just as bad - only about their own jobs and following the party line. 
My own Leave constituency is saddled with a young slip of a lass from that there London. A patronising plant into a safe seat, telling us she’s cares about our jobs for us, while she’s taken the seat of a local candidate. Also has the brass neck to tell us it better for us to Remain. 
We will remember and they’ll all be gone come next general election."

 

Most Labour MPs support remain, even though their constituents voted otherwise.....

 

I hope you're right re. your last para. "We will remember and they’ll all be gone come next general election."

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17 minutes ago, Grouse said:

So, what is your solution? Specifically, what will you accept, not accept and why?

I apologise for replying when your post was directed at another poster.

 

Personally, my solution is for MPs to finally give up on finding a way to side-line the referendum result, and accept IMMEDIATELY that the only way to deliver on the referendum result is to accept that a no deal leave is the way forward.

 

May and the eu 'tried' (????) to come up with an acceptable deal for the brits - and failed spectacularly, so that even remainers realised it was an appalling 'deal', whilst the eu thought it was a good deal.....

 

I've no doubt that IF the uk govt. actually declares that there is no deal, and we are leaving on the 29th March with no payment to the eu - miraculously, a reasonable trade deal that suits both sides will happen very quickly....

 

We can then bicker over eu projects within which we would like to remain, and our share of the payment for remaining within those projects.

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27 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

I apologise for replying when your post was directed at another poster.

 

Personally, my solution is for MPs to finally give up on finding a way to side-line the referendum result, and accept IMMEDIATELY that the only way to deliver on the referendum result is to accept that a no deal leave is the way forward.

 

May and the eu 'tried' (????) to come up with an acceptable deal for the brits - and failed spectacularly, so that even remainers realised it was an appalling 'deal', whilst the eu thought it was a good deal.....

 

I've no doubt that IF the uk govt. actually declares that there is no deal, and we are leaving on the 29th March with no payment to the eu - miraculously, a reasonable trade deal that suits both sides will happen very quickly....

 

We can then bicker over eu projects within which we would like to remain, and our share of the payment for remaining within those projects.

Thanks for saying what you think!

 

To me, taking such a huge risk and a certain hit to our economy in exchange for some undefined benefits is insane.

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45 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

I've no doubt that IF the uk govt. actually declares that there is no deal, and we are leaving on the 29th March with no payment to the eu - miraculously, a reasonable trade deal that suits both sides will happen very quickly....

Are you serious?

The EU was consistent from the very beginning about what is possible and what not. The UK had the choice between some realistic options. But they didn't want realistic options, they wanted the cake and eat it with lots of cherries on top. That option does not exist and it will never exist.

It's not that the EU has the unicorns hidden somewhere and that the UK only has to put enough pressure on them to release the unicorns. THE UNICORNS DON'T EXIST! Why is that so difficult to understand?

Lot of people here want to leave but they ignore the consequences. The UK will have to work together with the EU on many levels in the future. And to do this efficiently you need agreements, lots of agreements, like now as part of the EU.

Many agreements are complicated and work only in combination with each others. How should that work? On 1st of April they will sit together and think about agreements for visas, flights, rights for the citizens, business regulations, and, and, and?

This is what they were trying to do in the last two years and they failed to find a solution. And they failed because the UK parliament and even the tory MPs couldn't make up their minds what they really want. Why should any of this work better after a no deal brexit? It's mission impossible!

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3 hours ago, Grouse said:

Preferential voting. Australia's been doing it at both federal & state levels since the 1920s. Gives a much more mathematically accurate outcome when you have more than 2 parties or proposals to vote for.

 

But I guess that's too rational for most Brits who pride themselves on their eccentricity. Rather like never actually mentioning the words 'federal' or 'federal system' in their presence ...

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Are you serious?
The EU was consistent from the very beginning about what is possible and what not. The UK had the choice between some realistic options. But they didn't want realistic options, they wanted the cake and eat it with lots of cherries on top. That option does not exist and it will never exist.
It's not that the EU has the unicorns hidden somewhere and that the UK only has to put enough pressure on them to release the unicorns. THE UNICORNS DON'T EXIST! Why is that so difficult to understand?
Lot of people here want to leave but they ignore the consequences. The UK will have to work together with the EU on many levels in the future. And to do this efficiently you need agreements, lots of agreements, like now as part of the EU.
Many agreements are complicated and work only in combination with each others. How should that work? On 1st of April they will sit together and think about agreements for visas, flights, rights for the citizens, business regulations, and, and, and?
This is what they were trying to do in the last two years and they failed to find a solution. And they failed because the UK parliament and even the tory MPs couldn't make up their minds what they really want. Why should any of this work better after a no deal brexit? It's mission impossible!

What is it with you Remainers and unicorns? All sounds a bit girly to me.

They have been at the negotiating table for more than two years. During that time some things were agreed. We don’t know what exactly because it was a case of “Nothing is agreed until it’s all agreed.”
When May took over all that work was wasted because of her total capitulation to BRINO. While ever we have not left there is absolutely no incentive for Barnier to negotiate in good faith.
However, previously agreed issues are not totally lost if we leave “No Deal”. If they are good for the UK, they can be agreed again. The real sticking points like Customs Union can be negotiated again from our new position. The ‘and and’s you mention above are not major and have been addressed in various ways already.
The supposed backstop and NI border are also non-issues. They are blown out of all proportion by EU and Mrs May as way they thought to thwart Brexit. There’s been a virtual border working there for years.


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2 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

I apologise for replying when your post was directed at another poster.

 

Personally, my solution is for MPs to finally give up on finding a way to side-line the referendum result, and accept IMMEDIATELY that the only way to deliver on the referendum result is to accept that a no deal leave is the way forward.

 

May and the eu 'tried' (????) to come up with an acceptable deal for the brits - and failed spectacularly, so that even remainers realised it was an appalling 'deal', whilst the eu thought it was a good deal.....

 

I've no doubt that IF the uk govt. actually declares that there is no deal, and we are leaving on the 29th March with no payment to the eu - miraculously, a reasonable trade deal that suits both sides will happen very quickly....

 

We can then bicker over eu projects within which we would like to remain, and our share of the payment for remaining within those projects.

Thanks for saying what you think!

 

To me, taking such a huge risk and a certain hit to our economy in exchange for some undefined benefits is insane.

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38 minutes ago, Loiner said:


What is it with you Remainers and unicorns? All sounds a bit girly to me.

They have been at the negotiating table for more than two years. During that time some things were agreed. We don’t know what exactly because it was a case of “Nothing is agreed until it’s all agreed.”
When May took over all that work was wasted because of her total capitulation to BRINO. While ever we have not left there is absolutely no incentive for Barnier to negotiate in good faith.
However, previously agreed issues are not totally lost if we leave “No Deal”. If they are good for the UK, they can be agreed again. The real sticking points like Customs Union can be negotiated again from our new position. The ‘and and’s you mention above are not major and have been addressed in various ways already.
The supposed backstop and NI border are also non-issues. They are blown out of all proportion by EU and Mrs May as way they thought to thwart Brexit. There’s been a virtual border working there for years.


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Between two EU countries ????

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47 minutes ago, Loiner said:


What is it with you Remainers and unicorns? All sounds a bit girly to me.

They have been at the negotiating table for more than two years. During that time some things were agreed. We don’t know what exactly because it was a case of “Nothing is agreed until it’s all agreed.”
When May took over all that work was wasted because of her total capitulation to BRINO. While ever we have not left there is absolutely no incentive for Barnier to negotiate in good faith.
However, previously agreed issues are not totally lost if we leave “No Deal”. If they are good for the UK, they can be agreed again. The real sticking points like Customs Union can be negotiated again from our new position. The ‘and and’s you mention above are not major and have been addressed in various ways already.
The supposed backstop and NI border are also non-issues. They are blown out of all proportion by EU and Mrs May as way they thought to thwart Brexit. There’s been a virtual border working there for years.


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As staying in the CU and SM would solve everything what exactly do you personally object to? Please explain? Precisely.

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1 hour ago, mfd101 said:

Preferential voting. Australia's been doing it at both federal & state levels since the 1920s. Gives a much more mathematically accurate outcome when you have more than 2 parties or proposals to vote for.

 

But I guess that's too rational for most Brits who pride themselves on their eccentricity. Rather like never actually mentioning the words 'federal' or 'federal system' in their presence ...

...I thought he played tennis ☺️

 

To be serious we do have the ability to vote in local and/or European elections as well as a GE but I'm not up-to-speed re fine details. In the 21stC we should expect by now have the ability to participate securely online inc from Thailand/RoW.

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54 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Essential for all!

 

Stephen Fry is spot on

Thanks for posting. I managed 3 mins and 48 seconds despite trying quite hard to view all of it. I like Stephen Fry but that is complete and utter hogwash and does not reflect the behaviour of what many here consider to be the average ODB (ordinary decent brexiter).

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2 minutes ago, evadgib said:

Thanks for posting. I managed 3 mins and 48 seconds despite trying quite hard to view all of it. I like Stephen Fry but that is complete and utter hogwash and does not reflect the behaviour of what many here consider to be the average ODB (ordinary decent brexiter).

Then you should read more widely and avoid being grouped with those ignorant people who hold strong views based on lies, misunderstanding and lack of knowledge. I thought the info graphics and cartoon images might have helped you.

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1 minute ago, Grouse said:

Then you should read more widely and avoid being grouped with those ignorant people who hold strong views based on lies, misunderstanding and lack of knowledge. I thought the info graphics and cartoon images might have helped you.

I'll have another look later but I generally know when i'm being conned.

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3 minutes ago, evadgib said:

I'll have another look later but I generally know when i'm being conned.

I don't think Fry would be stupid enough to be conned into spreading disinformation. Thank you for agreeing to watch it.

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24 minutes ago, Grouse said:

I don't think Fry would be stupid enough to be conned into spreading disinformation. Thank you for agreeing to watch it.

Self styled 'luvvies' are suitably cocooned from the world the rest of us live in therefore I understand how someone like him can be taken in.

 

Here's something for you & the board...

 

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