Lovethailandelite Posted January 18, 2019 Author Share Posted January 18, 2019 34 minutes ago, JackThompson said: The financials were the only part of that application-process which made any sense, from a practical standpoint. The wanted the "riff-raff" out - ok, fine. But, given that vetting, no one with a METV should ever face problems entering the country based on money-issues. Yet, some entry-points arbitrarily deny entry to METV holders - claiming they cannot fund their stay - so asking for financials on application do not seem to serve a useful purpose. Have they decided what the "yes/no" rules are, and/or do they plan to publish those, so everyone can plan to cooperate/abide accordingly? Hopefully, they will also issue a financial-outlook result, which shows how their new rules/system will minimize the often arbitrary denials for visas which currently occur (Phnom Penh, recently, as a good example), and thus will lower "false-positive" rejections, to maximize income from self-funded expat-visitor spending. I guess if people were really interested, they could of attended this last night. 500 baht including dinner. Unfortunately I had a previous engagement. I hear BJ couldn't make it due to an emergency meeting with the PM but had the head of IDC stand in for him.JAN17 Dinner Talk by Commissioner of Immigration Bureau Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim7777 Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 Uhhm ok. So if this does happen honestly who cares? I swear I should get a bucket of popcorn when reading some of these things lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim7777 Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 Uhhm ok. So if this does happen honestly who cares? I swear I should get a bucket of popcorn when reading some of these things lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OJAS Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 2 hours ago, Lovethailandelite said: The onus is being taken away from individual Embassy's to issue visas. The 'system' as in the case of London from the 1st April will say 'yes' or 'no' before you even turn in your hard copy of documents based on previous visa and Thai immigration history held in the shared database. In that case I wonder whether this might lead to some standardisation of the various practices followed by individual embassies and consulates in the issuing of visas. While this might be seen as welcome in the interests of consistency, one arguably negative impact - specifically in the case of the London Embassy - could be the cessation of non-O visas being issued to those who are in receipt of the UK State Pension - thus forcing them down the OA route along with all other retirees aged 50 or over. And, nearer to home (in LOS terms), Savannakhet, for example, might start requiring financial proof in support of applications for non-O visas on the grounds of marriage to a Thai national. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim7777 Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 Honestly who cares if they share a database? And actually you can't "hide your visa history" regardless because Thai immigration already has your entire visa history records in their own private immigration database. If they don't then they're way behind the times you know they do. They also have all of your records of anytime you ever left or entered the country in the immigration database because of biometrics at ports of entry. Just about every country in the world uses biometrics screening these days at just about all ports of entry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VBF Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, ubonjoe said: That would not be needed if they would just change the requirements for the multiple entry tourist visa. Allow them to be issued anywhere, take out the proof of employment and reduce the financial requirements would be enough. I so agree Ubonjoe. I'd love to be able to get a METV from London to avoid having to get an extension to my SETV - I could use the time and money for a few days in Laos or Cambodia or........ And of course an added level of freedom of movement whilst in SE Asia. As it is, I'm officially retired so have no relevant employment to show, BUT don't get my State Pension for another 2 years, so simply don't qualify. Edited January 18, 2019 by VBF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackThompson Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 28 minutes ago, OJAS said: And, nearer to home (in LOS terms), Savannakhet, for example, might start requiring financial proof in support of applications for non-O visas on the grounds of marriage to a Thai national. That's ok. For income, USA-Embassy Stat-Docs are still acceptable for the MFA (per the last report I read - was Penang or KL) - and for the "money in the bank" method, a statement from a bank in your passport-country is OK (as well as a Thai, of course). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim7777 Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 Also unless you're some kind of criminal or maybe working here on a tourist visa or something like that there's no reason to hide anything from immigration. Why would you want to hide anything from immigration? As long as you are obeying the law you shouldn't have anything to hide from anyone. Additionally you never actually had the ability to "hide your visa history" from immigration by getting a new passport. Sure you can get a fresh passport with empty pages and get a new visa at a Thai Embassy and maybe the Thai Embassies don't have access to the immigration database I don't know that. BUT, once you reenter Thailand on your new visa in your new passport I can assure you that immigration records every time you enter or depart the country regardless of having a new or old passport to include on what type of visas, at the very minimum your biometric data is definitely collected every time you enter Thailand and most other countries as well that's a matter of national security. So of course immigration keeps their own private database on how many times you've entered the country or left and our visa records, they definitely better be that's a national security issue. Whether or not that information is shared between immigration and the Embassies is honestly irrelevant. All immigration needs to track us is their own private database which they've had for years and I'm sure the embassies and the local authorities share a lot of information especially in this day and age. We live in dangerous times and national security is a serious matter so you better believe that immigration has records of every time you have ever entered the country and on what type of visa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackThompson Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 26 minutes ago, Jim7777 said: Honestly who cares if they share a database? And actually you can't "hide your visa history" regardless because Thai immigration already has your entire visa history records in their own private immigration database. If they don't then they're way behind the times you know they do. They also have all of your records of anytime you ever left or entered the country in the immigration database because of biometrics at ports of entry. Just about every country in the world uses biometrics screening these days at just about all ports of entry. Yes - all immigration entry-points can see your full history. But some entry-points follow the written law, and others invent and enforce non-existent laws. Currently, we can simply avoid the "imaginary law" entry points. The question is, what will the rules be for the issuance of Visas when/if there is a universal, standardized system? Will the "boot the farangs unless they pay us off" hardliners write the rules? Or will they be written by the less xenophobic types, who have resisted imposing more severe restrictions to-date - containing the hard-liners to only the immigration-offices and entry-points which they control? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post AjarnMartin Posted January 18, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted January 18, 2019 Embassy’s??? Is there more than one involved? If so, should be EMBASSIES... sorry to be a native English speaker... ???????? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VBF Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Jim7777 said: Also unless you're some kind of criminal or maybe working here on a tourist visa or something like that there's no reason to hide anything from immigration. Why would you want to hide anything from immigration? As long as you are obeying the law you shouldn't have anything to hide from anyone. Additionally you never actually had the ability to "hide your visa history" from immigration by getting a new passport. Sure you can get a fresh passport with empty pages and get a new visa at a Thai Embassy and maybe the Thai Embassies don't have access to the immigration database I don't know that. BUT, once you reenter Thailand on your new visa in your new passport I can assure you that immigration records every time you enter or depart the country regardless of having a new or old passport to include on what type of visas, at the very minimum your biometric data is definitely collected every time you enter Thailand and most other countries as well that's a matter of national security. So of course immigration keeps their own private database on how many times you've entered the country or left and our visa records, they definitely better be that's a national security issue. Whether or not that information is shared between immigration and the Embassies is honestly irrelevant. All immigration needs to track us is their own private database which they've had for years and I'm sure the embassies and the local authorities share a lot of information especially in this day and age. We live in dangerous times and national security is a serious matter so you better believe that immigration has records of every time you have ever entered the country and on what type of visa. What you say is true and most countries are doing similar and I accept that we do live in dangerous times, except that Thailand (and others) don't seem to have even the concept of personal privacy. Example: in the EU there is GDPR which goes some way to keeping our private data private. I'm not naive enough to think that certain Government departments don't get around them, but in Thailand, there is not even any attempt to protect individual privacy. I'm no radical leftist, but I have read 1984. Edited January 18, 2019 by VBF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farangx Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 9 minutes ago, AjarnMartin said: Embassy’s??? Is there more than one involved? If so, should be EMBASSIES... sorry to be a native English speaker... ???????? In that case, should be embassies', note position of the apostrophe .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AjarnMartin Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 1 hour ago, farangx said: In that case, should be embassies', note position of the apostrophe .... A possessive apostrophe for a plural noun??? Heaven help us... ???? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fforest1 Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 2 hours ago, Jim7777 said: Also unless you're some kind of criminal or maybe working here on a tourist visa or something like that there's no reason to hide anything from immigration. Why would you want to hide anything from immigration? As long as you are obeying the law you shouldn't have anything to hide from anyone. Additionally you never actually had the ability to "hide your visa history" from immigration by getting a new passport. Sure you can get a fresh passport with empty pages and get a new visa at a Thai Embassy and maybe the Thai Embassies don't have access to the immigration database I don't know that. BUT, once you reenter Thailand on your new visa in your new passport I can assure you that immigration records every time you enter or depart the country regardless of having a new or old passport to include on what type of visas, at the very minimum your biometric data is definitely collected every time you enter Thailand and most other countries as well that's a matter of national security. So of course immigration keeps their own private database on how many times you've entered the country or left and our visa records, they definitely better be that's a national security issue. Whether or not that information is shared between immigration and the Embassies is honestly irrelevant. All immigration needs to track us is their own private database which they've had for years and I'm sure the embassies and the local authorities share a lot of information especially in this day and age. We live in dangerous times and national security is a serious matter so you better believe that immigration has records of every time you have ever entered the country and on what type of visa. We live in dangerous times and national security is a serious matter Please stop drinking the Kool-aid..... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKresonant Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, OJAS said: While this might be seen as welcome in the interests of consistency, one arguably negative impact - specifically in the case of the London Embassy - could be the cessation of non-O visas being issued to those who are in receipt of the UK State Pension - thus forcing them down the OA route along with all other retirees aged 50 or over. Do you have any specific links to why they may stop the non-O visa for UK state pensioners? That would certainly have a negative effect on my Father, maybe a return to Tourist Visas if that were the case, Sure that he would not be interested in the hassle of getting an OA visa, he used to use double entry Tourist Visas, when they changed the system, that's when we discovered the non-O with the UK pension... Edited January 18, 2019 by johnwf1963 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattaya46 Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 17 hours ago, Jim7777 said: Why would you want to hide anything from immigration? As long as you are obeying the law you shouldn't have anything to hide from anyone. Just read this forum. There are hundreds of posts where members recommend other people to get a new passport to solve their problem. Most of times (from what I remember) it seems to be people on Tourist Visa trying to get a new one in a nearby country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovethailandelite Posted January 19, 2019 Author Share Posted January 19, 2019 36 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said: Just read this forum. There are hundreds of posts where members recommend other people to get a new passport to solve their problem. Most of times (from what I remember) it seems to be people on Tourist Visa trying to get a new one in a nearby country. That game won't work very shortly. Another reason why the Immigration database was made available to the MFA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wobalt Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 That game won't work very shortly. Another reason why the Immigration database was made available to the MFA.Why ? They always stamped my new passport with : „ has travelled before with passport NUmber xyz and visa xyz.“Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holy cow cm Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 If it is all about new visa applications or passport checks and passport renewals or changes then who cares. BUT, how far can that be stretched by him as this is only the first suggested use. Thais in power love to stretch things to the next ridiculous level just to say or show they have done something to top the last something. There has to be some protectionism of ones details or personal details, but in this day and age not a chance since everything on everyone can be checked online for a fee. Let's just hope it doesn't go to a really ridiculous level to where your internet viewing is plumped into your file. Somethings some people do in spare time in research or reading or just viewing might qualify as undesirable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgdanson Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 (edited) 19 hours ago, JackThompson said: and for the "money in the bank" method, a statement from a bank in your passport-country is OK (as well as a Thai, of course). Are you saying that my UK Bank can issue a letter saying that I have Bht 800,000 in my Thai Bank? Edited January 19, 2019 by wgdanson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackThompson Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 2 hours ago, Pattaya46 said: 19 hours ago, Jim7777 said: Why would you want to hide anything from immigration? As long as you are obeying the law you shouldn't have anything to hide from anyone. Just read this forum. There are hundreds of posts where members recommend other people to get a new passport to solve their problem. Most of times (from what I remember) it seems to be people on Tourist Visa trying to get a new one in a nearby country. Replacing one's passport is not in relation to immigration, but rather to circumvent arbitrary / non-standard per-consulate restrictions on the issuance of Tourist Visas. Consulate personnel have recommended this course of action to me and others as a work-around. This action does not relate to any legal-restrictions on Tourist Visa issuance or use. Immigration links old and new passports, so this has no effect on their record-keeping history on visitors. At best, not seeing pages of Thai in/out stamps and visas may have a beneficial effect when dealing with an IO who has been given a "quota" of rejections to issue. An IO in this position may be more likely to target another innocent person for unlawful denial-of-entry, vs the visitor with the new passport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackThompson Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 39 minutes ago, wgdanson said: Are you saying that my UK Bank can issue a letter saying that I have Bht 800,000 in my Thai Bank? At a Thai consulate abroad - yes. Not with immigration in-Thailand, though. As well, UK, USA, AU, Denmark can no longer obtain/use income-affidavits / statements from their embassies in Thailand, but these may still be issued / valid for use at Thai consulates abroad. The difference is jurisdiction - "MFA" vs "Immigration." The MFA are generally more on the TAT / pro-visitor side of the equation, though sentiments within immigration (office to office, entry-point to entry-point), and from one Thai consulate to another (Vientiane vs Phnom Penh), vary wildly. Just as each immigration-office can make up their own rules and enforce them with minimal oversight, similarly, each Consul can do the same. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FritsSikkink Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 On 1/18/2019 at 2:15 AM, BritTim said: An interesting report. It does not actually explain exactly which data is to be shared. Specifics, worryingly, seem to refer to tax information. I really hope Thailand is not going to crack down in that area. That would be a hassle that would dwarf any respite from eliminating 90-day reporting. Why, do you have a tax problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FritsSikkink Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 On 1/18/2019 at 10:24 AM, wobalt said: Possibly not in Europe Gesendet von iPad mit Thaivisa Connect They can share info between government agencies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FritsSikkink Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 On 1/18/2019 at 10:27 AM, wgdanson said: They cannot connect the databases for Road Offences and Road Tax, so how will this happen? Oh yes, Windows has a new update coming in April. LOL They can but haven't been bothered yet. You haven't got a clue about their abilities (way better than yours) but like to make jokes without any knowledge about the subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgdanson Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said: They can but haven't been bothered yet. You haven't got a clue about their abilities (way better than yours) but like to make jokes without any knowledge about the subject. They CAN ban field burning, but haven't bothered yet. They CAN insist on wearing helmet, but haven't bothered yet....and so on. As for the Windows joke, my Immigration Office is still on Windows 7. And how, Mr Sikkink, do you know about MY abilities? Edited January 19, 2019 by wgdanson 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattaya46 Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 (edited) On 1/18/2019 at 10:27 AM, wgdanson said: They cannot connect the databases for Road Offences and Road Tax, so how will this happen? // Who say they cannot? There was an article a few weeks ago that they are now working to do precisely that. If it was not already done, it was not because they were enable to do it, but just that nobody yet had required to do it. Now it's coming... soon... Edit: Oops. Forgot to refresh and didn't see post #53 above from FritsSikkink who says nearly the same thing Edited January 19, 2019 by Pattaya46 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wobalt Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 They can share info between government agencies.But not for the purpose to get a Thai visa. See ongoing discussions. Many information are at town levelSent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacko45k Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 19 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said: Who say they cannot? There was an article a few weeks ago that they are now working to do precisely that. Have they finished? If not THEY have said that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FritsSikkink Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 (edited) 40 minutes ago, wgdanson said: And how, Mr Sikkink, do you know about MY abilities? For a start the older Windows version has nothing to do with their ability to link databases. Edited January 19, 2019 by FritsSikkink Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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