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Immigration and Embassy's now have shared Database


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4 hours ago, JLCrab said:

BS Jack you say in post #81 right above this topic following the rules is stressful and using an agent isn't. 

 

"No stress with immigration if you give them what they really wanted all along, it seems.  The "stress" comes from thinking they really want you to "follow rules" or something."

 

And as you have repeatedly said the IMM folks deliberately make the rules difficult so you will be forced to use an agent. 

That is exactly correct. That's how an extortion/protection gang works - you pay them off, or they make your life miserable to impossible to continue.  That's what they tried to do to me.  If you pay them off, they leave you alone.

 

But what you seemed to imply (perhaps I misunderstood), is that I think that state of affairs is a good thing, which is the opposite of the case.  If the published laws/rules were followed in every instance, my life here (and thousands of others) would have been / would be much easier.

 

But, where I suspect the confusion lies - I find the celebration of shutting down ways to work-around the corrupt immigration by some posters (ala "Hooray - Visa-Crackdown in cahoots with Immigration - now go payoff my IO buddies Or Else"), even more detestable than corrupt immigration, itself.  It's literally joy for some to see evil befall other expats - the corralling of decent people into the clutches of an extortion-ring.  I'm not saying you feel that way - but some clearly do.

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3 hours ago, JackThompson said:

But, where I suspect the confusion lies - I find the celebration of shutting down ways to work-around the corrupt immigration by some posters (ala "Hooray - Visa-Crackdown in cahoots with Immigration - now go payoff my IO buddies Or Else"), even more detestable than corrupt immigration, itself. 

So, in other words, to avoid confusion, the problem is the people who want to shutdown the ways to work around the corruption which is caused by strictly enforcing the ways to avoid corruption by those who want corruption against those who would change the ways to eliminate corruption by changing the laws that allow corruption by enforcing laws that, if followed to the letter, encourage corruption.

Edited by JLCrab
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On 1/18/2019 at 10:33 AM, mokwit said:

I would have thought that would be a reason to update it BJ has specifically brought up the issue that it is 40 yrs old. World has changed, 40 years ago half of Africa, Middle East and Indian subcontinent were not on the move.

Neither were retired postmen

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17 hours ago, JLCrab said:

So, in other words, to avoid confusion, the problem is the people who want to shutdown the ways to work around the corruption

More precisely, those who generally ridicule those being hurt by IOs not following the law, rubbing their hands with glee, as people's lives are turned upside down, and often saying, "They are coming for you next" regarding ending Non-O-ME Visas for those married to Thais, immigration meddling in MFA's Visas, etc

 

17 hours ago, JLCrab said:

which is caused by strictly enforcing the ways to avoid corruption by those who want corruption

Adding new non-existent requirements to force corruption - done by "gone bad" IOs.

 

17 hours ago, JLCrab said:

against those who would change the ways to eliminate corruption by changing the laws that allow corruption

Not sure who those guys would be.  It would be nice if they would change the laws to eliminate corruption, or just run sting-operations within immigration, where 90% of the corruption is created and directed, with the laws as-is.  But it sounds like a dangerous endeavor, given the nature of corrupt people when their corrupt-incomes are threatened by an "honest do-gooder."

 

17 hours ago, JLCrab said:

by enforcing laws that, if followed to the letter, encourage corruption.

No, if the laws were followed to the letter, that would undermine / minimize the corruption.  It is making up non-laws / non-rules to (mess) with people, which is the problem.

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Almost unbelievable that they never had this link before. Why are they not linked into the Interpol system so that police checks for visas would be unnecessary?   The answer, of course is that would involve an outlay of cash which could be going into an official's pocket.

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52 minutes ago, KhunFred said:

Almost unbelievable that they never had this link before. Why are they not linked into the Interpol system so that police checks for visas would be unnecessary?   The answer, of course is that would involve an outlay of cash which could be going into an official's pocket.

They are linked to Interpol but they have to go to a different section of their computer to bring it up. I was once checked when entering and heard him say he was checking Interpol.

 

I seriously doubt that all locations around the  world will be linked in one year.  I remember back in 2011- the then head of Immigration was touting fingerprint scanners at every border when entering Thailand- would take about 6 months to get it up and running.  No fingerprint scanners yet and sometime the picture machine isn't working.   The Thai Embassy in Singapore does have on line application for Visas to Thailand but one still has to go into their office with the docs. 

 

There is no doubt Mr Jack has a point and it is well made.  I am not so sure there is a cabal of Immigration Officers that hate foreigners but more like a cabal that are targeting certain stereo types and being rather pedantic about who they let in and who they do not.  Some are completely xenophobic and are sure certain Nationalities are coming to Thailand to cause problems.

 

The agent situation is certainly curious-  there is never any stopping of someone on the elite Visa- yet it is simply  a long tourist visa.  

The use of agents in the Pattaya area is huge and there are many people who use them because they cannot meet the financial requirements - yet others use them simply to ease the extension as they actually have the correct documents and financials. Apparently, agents are not illegal or the Immigration Act of 1979 would have been amended to outlaw them.  

 

What is worrisome is that there are certain desks at certain Imm Offices that  constantly ask for added documents which they know is impossible or near impossible to get and far in excess of what is needed to prove a relationship or an address.  I personally have used only Chaengwattana for extensions for almost 50 years- both marriage and  Retirement- only had 1 request that was out of line and that was at the old Soi Suan Plu Office when the IO asked  me for the original passport I entered Thailand on when I registered the marriage. At that time- I had every document needed for the marriage extension, I had already been married over 20 years  so that was a very old  passport. When I walked in with it he was surprised and  provided the extension .  I knew he was looking for an honorarium if I could not find that old passport.

 

Throughout the years Immigration to Thailand has increased in huge numbers and actually the requirements on paper had become easier  but it appears  everyone has become suspect- false marriages; people working without permits; illegal business run by foreigners; criminal foreigners etc and also the level of corruption has increased geometrically.  It is of note- that those that are running illegal business; violating the terms of their extensions and are criminals seem to exist year after year quite easily.  It appears, it is some who  abide by the law are having a hard time as evidenced by almost  daily reports on this forum,

 

The situation with the lack of Embassy letters has opened up another opportunity whether by design or by accident.  It is interesting to note that  the money in the bank option is not changed and the money only has to come from abroad if an applicant is changing to a Non O while in Thailand but  the normal  money in the bank option has no foreign sourcing of funds in the bank.

 

The income  option could have been made much easier for applicants had they simply added an option of 'evidence of 65K/49K  per month"  That evidence could have been money in a Thai bank deposited monthly (no transfer) or simply showing  pension verification letters..  Having to bring the money from abroad for some of us is cumbersome with monthly transfers and since retirees are age 50 and up- no one is working in Thailand  at wages being paid by Thai employers or risking being deported for having no work permit.  This is not the age group that is breaking the law.

 

I do hope that as time moves on all Thai Imm offices will be up to speed on what the requirements are and not push applicants toward the money in the bank option.

 

 

 

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23 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

The income  option could have been made much easier for applicants had they simply added an option of 'evidence of 65K/49K  per month"  That evidence could have been money in a Thai bank deposited monthly (no transfer) or simply showing  pension verification letters.. 

 

If the money is not coming in monthly from overseas, washing will be easy.

 

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4 minutes ago, Thaidream said:
38 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

but they didn't. Next?

Time will tell.....Even the Us Constitution has several  interpretations as well as amendments.

Sure and the last US constitutional amendment was 1992.

 

But in the interim, keep up the shoulda. mighta, ought to have, why didn't they?, don't they realize?, woulda been better if they-type  additions to the discussion herein.

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3 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

Sure and the last US constitutional amendment was 1992.

 

But in the interim, keep up the shoulda. mighta, ought to have, why didn't they?, don't they realize?, woulda been better if they-type  additions to the discussion herein.

Cases are filed daily and the courts interpret whether they can move forward.

 

In the meantime I shall complain;  stay irritated; pontificate;  advocate new ideas;  refute; provide inventive ; rabble rouse; challenge and watch what happens.

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On 1/18/2019 at 3:37 PM, Jim7777 said:

Honestly who cares if they share a database?  And actually you can't "hide your visa history" regardless because Thai immigration already has your entire visa history records in their own private immigration database.  If they don't then they're way behind the times you know they do.  They also have all of your records of anytime you ever left or entered the country in the immigration database because of biometrics at ports of entry.  Just about every country in the world uses biometrics screening these days at just about all ports of entry.  

Please explain to me what 'biometrics' they have stored. They have a photo of me, possibly my height and hair colour (which can be changed at will), facial hair (sometimes). They DO NOT have iris recognition or fingerprints on me anyway because I have never had them taken. The resolution on passport photographs is not good enough for that anyway. So for biometrics substitute photo.

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On 1/18/2019 at 1:08 PM, Lovethailandelite said:

The onus is being taken away from individual Embassy's to issue visas. The 'system' as in the case of London from the 1st April will say 'yes' or 'no' before you even turn in your hard copy of documents based on previous visa and Thai immigration history held in the shared database.

Have you ever read up on the apostrophe?

Would do tons for your credibility.

Just trying to help and it does tend to grate.

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2 hours ago, wgdanson said:

They DO NOT have iris recognition or fingerprints on me anyway because I have never had them taken. The resolution on passport photographs is not good enough for that anyway. So for biometrics substitute photo.

Modern passports have fingerprints. Don't know your country, but by example all European passports since 2009 have fingerprints of 2 fingers inside the chips, in a resolution high enough to confirm identity.

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Modern passports have fingerprints. Don't know your country, but by example all European passports since 2009 have fingerprints of 2 fingers inside the chips, in a resolution high enough to confirm identity.
The chips don't contain fingerprints or pictures. The chip only contains the data between the `>>>>>>' afaik.
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29 minutes ago, ExpatDraco said:

The chips don't contain fingerprints or pictures.

The chip only contains the data between the `>>>>>>' afaik.

So where are these biometric data stored if not in the chip? :cool:

 

You could read that: What Information Is Stored On Passport RFID Chips?

Quote

// Most other countries store data directly on the chip itself. For Europeans this typically means all of the information about you inside of the passport (e.g. name, date of birth, etc.) plus your photo and fingerprints. //

 

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2 minutes ago, BritTim said:

In fairness, that is not always enforced though, of course, it is difficult to know when it will be.

Well I said it tongue in cheek as I too seem to be 'getting away with it', but apparently some locations require it, and will fine non-compliance with glee!

Edited by jacko45k
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