Refused 1st Retirement extension

[ADS1]

I was refused my first retirement extension at Ubonratchathani immigration. I was using the combo, money in bank 650k+, combined with income from a work pension. The reason for refusal was that I do not have 65k per month coming into my Thai bank. I have only been receiving my pension for 4 months, and the deposits do vary, but enough to reach the 800k requirement. I was told that they are no longer doing the combined method. I was advised that I would need to top my account up to the 800k and start the process again by traveling to Loa and obtain a new non-o visa. I would then need to keep the 800k in the bank or show income of 65k per month for further extensions.

[wgdanson]

According to UbonJoe, the combined method is still valid. I hope so 'cos I am hoping to do it that way. 

[ubonjoe]

15 minutes ago, ADS1 said:

I was told that they are no longer doing the combined method.

That is not correct. The combination option is still allowed. There were no changes made to the police order for it. I think there is apparently some confusion going on at immigration about the changes.

Did you to the office in the city at Rajabhat university or Sirindhorn?

How long was the 650k baht in the bank? Was your income transferred into a Thai bank from overseas?

[ADS1]

2 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

That is not correct. The combination of option is still allowed. 

Did you to the office in the city at Rajabhat university or Sirindhorn?

How long was the 650k baht in the bank? Was your income transferred into a Thai bank from oversea?

I went to the office at the university. Money in the bank since October 2018. Yes from the UK.

[ubonjoe]

1 minute ago, ADS1 said:

I went to the office at the university. Money in the bank since October 2018. Yes from the UK.

Perhaps try at Sirindhorn on Monday. 

The combination was never show in clause 2.22 of police order 138/2557 that was amended and the only change was to add a new option for income. The combination option is is shown in clause 2.22 of 327/2557.

Perhaps download both police orders and the amendment that are available in this topic to look at yourself. They are available in Thai as well.

 

 

 

[Tanoshi]

I agree with Joe.

Appears to be some confusion with Immigration between the existing and new order.

They've become fixated on the 40 or 65K per month income deposits in a Thai bank, so it absolves them of doing any calculations for the combo method.

 

I believe we'll hear a lot more problematic reports in the next few months.

You could try ringing Immigrations hotline on 1178 for advice. (English speakers)

 

[bwpage3]

UbonJoe, the savior to all!

[cleopatra2]

20 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Perhaps try at Sirindhorn on Monday. 

The combination was never show in clause 2.22 of police order 138/2557 that was amended and the only change was to add a new option for income. The combination option is is shown in clause 2.22 of 327/2557.

Perhaps download both police orders and the amendment that are available in this topic to look at yourself. They are available in Thai as well.

 

 

 

To be a bit pedantic.

The amendment , for the purpose of retirement only describes the procedure for 65,000 income, it does not specify anything about combination. 

Whilst the police order pertaining to requirements for extension of stay have remained unchanged . Thus the combination method still valid , there appears no specific method stipulated on how to provide supporting documentation.

I would agree that the natural reading would assume the same process to apply for both income and combination. 

[ubonjoe]

10 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said:

The amendment , for the purpose of retirement only describes the procedure for 65,000 income, it does not specify anything about combination. 

I think the 65k baht number was more of an example than a fixed number for the new rules for proof of income. For the combination option annual income would be calculated based upon on the income shown on the bank statements to determine the amount needed in the bank.

[SABloke]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

That is not correct. The combination option is still allowed. There were no changes made to the police order for it. I think there is apparently some confusion going on at immigration about the changes.

Did you to the office in the city at Rajabhat university or Sirindhorn?

How long was the 650k baht in the bank? Was your income transferred into a Thai bank from overseas?

So they didn't say that or are you saying they aren't following the law? It doesn't matter what the law says if the government officials you are dealing with make up regulations as they please. Hell, I'm required to get a police clearance certificate for my extension even though no such regulation exists. The fact is the OP was denied his extension for the reason given by the IO. 

[cleopatra2]

31 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

I think the 65k baht number was more of an example than a fixed number for the new rules for proof of income. For the combination option annual income would be calculated based upon on the income shown on the bank statements to determine the amount needed in the bank.

The 65k is specif in the new process column of the amendment. The  original order only requested evidence of income. The amendment details how this evidence is to be provided , only detailing the income of 65k.

 

 If the combo method is still available as per the police order , the new amendment needs to detail how to show income below 65k. It may be common sense , however  Thais are obsequious by nature thus the rules need to  be explicit.

 

Edited January 18, 2019 by cleopatra2

[Danthai]

Chiangmai using the combination method with no problems. Any body recently?

[garyk]

I bet this will be pretty common.

I just used the letter to get my extension and asked the guy what the new rules were.

Not one mention of the combo method. 65K / month 40K / month or 400K / 800K seasoned only was his reply.

Hopefully he just did not know about it yet.

Edited January 19, 2019 by garyk

[wwest5829]

16 hours ago, SABloke said:

So they didn't say that or are you saying they aren't following the law? It doesn't matter what the law says if the government officials you are dealing with make up regulations as they please. Hell, I'm required to get a police clearance certificate for my extension even though no such regulation exists. The fact is the OP was denied his extension for the reason given by the IO. 

Joe recommended calling the hotline and I would think this might be the best route telling of your experience and at which immigration office. A call from headquarters might clear the way for you and others going to that office. Just do remember to be calm and friendly asking for assistance.

[Thingamabob]

19 hours ago, ADS1 said:

I went to the office at the university. Money in the bank since October 2018. Yes from the UK.

Which day in October ?

[Chassa]

5 hours ago, garyk said:

I bet this will be pretty common.

I just used the letter to get my extension and asked the guy what the new rules were.

Not one mention of the combo method. 65K / month 40K / month or 400K / 800K seasoned only was his reply.

Hopefully he just did not know about it yet.

Same message in Udon.

[Chongalulu]

While smoothly extending my retirement visa yesterday at Korat with embassy income letter I asked about going forward . I showed an audit trail comprising uk bank statement with funds departing ,World first currency document confirming trade and destination ,MT103 (from intermediary bank) and arrival in Thai baht  from Kasikorn bank statement which shows up as 'domestic transfer' from a recent transfer I made using an fx company to my Kasikorn account . Understandably I may just as  well been speaking Greek. All they could say was they would want a bank letter written on the day of my next application! How is the Phimai Kasikorn branch going to do that when I present the same 12 monthly audit trails ?! They don’t even understand their own codes in the bank book. I predicted chaos when the new directive came out and this just confirms it. I will be returning to marriage visa and 400k seasoned for 2 months next year.

For others without that option......

[Golden Triangle]

12 minutes ago, nchuckle said:

While smoothly extending my retirement visa yesterday at Korat with embassy income letter I asked about going forward . I showed an audit trail comprising uk bank statement with funds departing ,World first currency document confirming trade and destination ,MT103 (from intermediary bank) and arrival in Thai baht  from Kasikorn bank statement which shows up as 'domestic transfer' from a recent transfer I made using an fx company to my Kasikorn account . Understandably I may just as  well been speaking Greek. All they could say was they would want a bank letter written on the day of my next application! How is the Phimai Kasikorn branch going to do that when I present the same 12 monthly audit trails ?! They don’t even understand their own codes in the bank book. I predicted chaos when the new directive came out and this just confirms it. I will be returning to marriage visa and 400k seasoned for 2 months next year.

For others without that option......

I have a friend in Phimai, he uses the Kasikorn as well, he was told by Korat immigration a couple of weeks ago while doing his 90 days, that the combination method wasn't an option and had to either have 800k seasoned or 65k a month going into his account every month, he will be reverting to a marriage visa as well, I did post that on here on another thread to inform people.  

[Chongalulu]

23 minutes ago, Golden Triangle said:

I have a friend in Phimai, he uses the Kasikorn as well, he was told by Korat immigration a couple of weeks ago while doing his 90 days, that the combination method wasn't an option and had to either have 800k seasoned or 65k a month going into his account every month, he will be reverting to a marriage visa as well, I did post that on here on another thread to inform people.  

Although that wasn’t an issue in my post thanks for reiterating that. Korat is one of the more amenable and friendly offices and your post just goes to further illustrate what a total mess this new income fiasco is going to become with confusion and misunderstanding all around. Totally predictable from the outset.

[Thaidream]

4 minutes ago, nchuckle said:

Although that wasn’t an issue in my post thanks for reiterating that. Korat is one of the more amenable and friendly offices and your post just goes to further illustrate what a total mess this new income fiasco is going to become with confusion and misunderstanding all around. Totally predictable from the outset.

Thanks for reporting what happened and where.

[DJ54]

Seems regulations 101 is needed for all locations to be on the same page. 

[newatthis]

19 hours ago, Danthai said:

Chiangmai using the combination method with no problems. Any body recently?

With or without the Embassy letter?

[bkk6060]

The police rule and reports coming in are all fine and dandy.

I would not totally rely on it however and do not assume anything.

My suggestion is if you have an extension coming up this year go to your Imm. office prior and ask for a supervisor and tell them to explain what they will require.

As some have said there will be a lot of confusion by Immigration (and us) on this and offices may interpret things differently. 

 

 

 

[diggledunc]

I had the same experience on Tuesday when I went to IO.

 

Ubonjoe have a look at my previous thread on IOs only using income letter once.

 

Agree it seems like there is some confusion of old and new rules.

[ubonjoe]

5 minutes ago, diggledunc said:

Ubonjoe have a look at my previous thread on IOs only using income letter once.

I have already looked at it. I think it will all get sorted out shorley. I think they don't really understand the new rules yet.

[longball53098]

Until all offices get it straight confusion will be the order of the day. Until all this is sorted those applying for extensions will get the brunt of the confusion

[NoshowJones]

Just another case of different immigration offices making up their own rules, I would not trust what any of them say to you. Every time you go into a Thai IO, just hope for the best.

Edited January 19, 2019 by possum1931

[NoshowJones]

9 minutes ago, longball53098 said:

Until all offices get it straight confusion will be the order of the day. Until all this is sorted those applying for extensions will get the brunt of the confusion

Thai immigration have been making their own rules up in different offices as far back as I can remember, and has caused all sorts of confusion for us expats.

[scubascuba3]

comforting to know that immigration and the banks have got this all under control

[davhend25]

3 hours ago, nchuckle said:

While smoothly extending my retirement visa yesterday at Korat with embassy income letter I asked about going forward . I showed an audit trail comprising uk bank statement with funds departing ,World first currency document confirming trade and destination ,MT103 (from intermediary bank) and arrival in Thai baht  from Kasikorn bank statement which shows up as 'domestic transfer' from a recent transfer I made using an fx company to my Kasikorn account . Understandably I may just as  well been speaking Greek. All they could say was they would want a bank letter written on the day of my next application! How is the Phimai Kasikorn branch going to do that when I present the same 12 monthly audit trails ?! They don’t even understand their own codes in the bank book. I predicted chaos when the new directive came out and this just confirms it. I will be returning to marriage visa and 400k seasoned for 2 months next year.

For others without that option......

I think the "income" method is going to be a virtual nightmare going forward. Too many parts to a moving puzzle for many of the local immigration offices. Too many little things to go wrong, i.e., short amount transferred, transfer code wrong, etc. For some IO's it will be okay, but for many it won't. If you can't afford either the 400K or 800K seasoned Thai bank account, you probably should start looking for another country....or settle in for a lot of headaches!