Refused 1st Retirement extension

[jesimps]

Just checked my TransferWise confirmation receipts since my last 12 month extension. October and November was sent to Bangkok Bank, but December's went to TMB! Kind of makes it pointless me opening a Bangkok Bank account. Unless TI are willing to be flexible (joke), the only solution that I can see is to do monthly SWIFT transfers from my UK bank (expensive over the 12 months) or deposit 4 or 800,000. Also, if I do switch to SWIFT, are TI really going to be happy with 10 months worth of transfers? Will these SWIFT transfers show as international transfers on my SCB statement? I don't know. So many questions, so little time.

[Pib]

29 minutes ago, jesimps said:

Just checked my TransferWise confirmation receipts since my last 12 month extension. October and November was sent to Bangkok Bank, but December's went to TMB! Kind of makes it pointless me opening a Bangkok Bank account. Unless TI are willing to be flexible (joke), the only solution that I can see is to do monthly SWIFT transfers from my UK bank (expensive over the 12 months) or deposit 4 or 800,000. Also, if I do switch to SWIFT, are TI really going to be happy with 10 months worth of transfers? Will these SWIFT transfers show as international transfers on my SCB statement? I don't know. So many questions, so little time.

But how did that December transfer going to your Bangkok Bank account via TW's partner bank of TMB end-up getting coded on your Bangkok Bank account?  That is coded as FTT/International Transfer or something else like a domestic transfer.

 

And this is just another example of how TW can use different partner banks for the final leg of the transfer which can affect the coding/description appearing on your receiving bank account.  Currently TW's three partner banks in Thailand are Bangkok Bank, TMB, and Kaiskorn Bank.

Edited January 21, 2019 by Pib

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, jesimps said:

Just checked my TransferWise confirmation receipts since my last 12 month extension. October and November was sent to Bangkok Bank, but December's went to TMB! Kind of makes it pointless me opening a Bangkok Bank account.

Yes, TW does some sort of batching/distribution to achieve their low-rates, and this seems to make using them useless for purposes of proving foreign xfers - at least unless/until some sort of method the banks and immigration agree upon would make those xfers "valid" for one's extension.

 

1 hour ago, jesimps said:

Will these SWIFT transfers show as international transfers on my SCB statement?

Check the SWIFT instructions given by SCB.  Do they indicate you need to provide an "intermediate bank"?  If not, they should go direct, and appear as foreign-xfers. 

[jesimps]

51 minutes ago, Pib said:

But how did that December transfer going to your Bangkok Bank account via TW's partner bank of TMB end-up getting coded on your Bangkok Bank account?  That is coded as FTT/International Transfer or something else like a domestic transfer.

 

And this is just another example of how TW can use different partner banks for the final leg of the transfer which can affect the coding/description appearing on your receiving bank account.  Currently TW's three partner banks in Thailand are Bangkok Bank, TMB, and Kaiskorn Bank.

I don't have a Bangkok Bank account, I bank with SCB. It shows TMB on my December TransferWise transfer confirmation, but Bangkok Bank on the previous two months. All three months transfers are coded as internal on my SCB account. I was going to open a Bangkok Bank account, but now it doesn't appear to be the solution.

 

[Jingthing]

6 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Yes, TW does some sort of batching/distribution to achieve their low-rates, and this seems to make using them useless for purposes of proving foreign xfers - at least unless/until some sort of method the banks and immigration agree upon would make those xfers "valid" for one's extension.

 

Check the SWIFT instructions given by SCB.  Do they indicate you need to provide an "intermediate bank"?  If not, they should go direct, and appear as foreign-xfers. 

I've been sending SWIFT transfers to SCB for years from multiple U.S. sources. They always show as foreign transfers.

[jacko45k]

9 hours ago, Pib said:

But how did that December transfer going to your Bangkok Bank account via TW's partner bank of TMB end-up getting coded on your Bangkok Bank account?  That is coded as FTT/International Transfer or something else like a domestic transfer.

In my case, as a SMART transfer. No mention of foreign or overseas. 

[wgdanson]

Surely, the banks will be the ones issuing letters for the IO to see, the IO is not going to trawl through bank and transfer statements. So it is up to you to liase with your bank, who know the route the money has taken, to say on their letter to IO, that this money was brought in from abroad, no matter what route it took before it got to your bank.

[Henryford]

10 hours ago, jesimps said:

Just checked my TransferWise confirmation receipts since my last 12 month extension. October and November was sent to Bangkok Bank, but December's went to TMB! Kind of makes it pointless me opening a Bangkok Bank account. Unless TI are willing to be flexible (joke), the only solution that I can see is to do monthly SWIFT transfers from my UK bank (expensive over the 12 months) or deposit 4 or 800,000. Also, if I do switch to SWIFT, are TI really going to be happy with 10 months worth of transfers? Will these SWIFT transfers show as international transfers on my SCB statement? I don't know. So many questions, so little time. 

I did a Transferwise transfer a few days ago. The PDF receipt clearly shows it as a SWIFT transfer in GBP, which exactly matches the thai baht credit on my Krungsri account the same day. Surely that is evidence of a foreign transfer?

[JackThompson]

33 minutes ago, Henryford said:

I did a Transferwise transfer a few days ago. The PDF receipt clearly shows it as a SWIFT transfer in GBP, which exactly matches the thai baht credit on my Krungsri account the same day. Surely that is evidence of a foreign transfer?

The problem is, anyone could do domestic back-and-forth transfers, then print up PDFs which are identical to "real" TW PDFs.  The same is true for any foreign (bank-statement) or home-printed document.  At one time, swearing under penalty of a felony at your embassy made a document credible to immigration - but not anymore (for many of us).  

 

Therefore, if your TW transfers do not appear as foreign per your Thai bank-statement, acceptance of them as "proof of income" would depend on the bank authoring a document declaring those as foreign-xfers, or an IO willing to accept your 2ndary documentation (PDFs and foreign bank-statements) as valid. 

 

We had one report that an agent was offering "document validation" for a discounted-fee, vs entirely faked financials, for the usual fee.  This may be one way those wanting to use the "income method" for their extensions, whose embassies are not working with Thai immigration any more, and who end up with otherwise unusable transfers, could be extorted by the agent-immigration-system.  Honest offices not working with agents would be more likely to assess extra documents - but may refuse to do so, out of concern they could be invalid.

Edited January 22, 2019 by JackThompson

[jesimps]

44 minutes ago, Henryford said:

I did a Transferwise transfer a few days ago. The PDF receipt clearly shows it as a SWIFT transfer in GBP, which exactly matches the thai baht credit on my Krungsri account the same day. Surely that is evidence of a foreign transfer?

The TransferWise PDF confirmation form has all the information TI could possibly want, unfortunately it's in English and I reckon a lot of IOs wouldn't be able to read it.

[Olmate]

All very well meaning replies but still nothing new either way on the combination method as was the topic.Not much use having transfers accepted by TI but if not 65k monthly some are still left wanting?

[Jingthing]

Surely, the banks will be the ones issuing letters for the IO to see, the IO is not going to trawl through bank and transfer statements. So it is up to you to liase with your bank, who know the route the money has taken, to say on their letter to IO, that this money was brought in from abroad, no matter what route it took before it got to your bank.

I strongly doubt that. From the banks you can get a letter certifying the current balance and some recent statements. Such statements will show the same source codes as bank pass books.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Jingthing]

All very well meaning replies but still nothing new either way on the combination method as was the topic.Not much use having transfers accepted by TI but if not 65k monthly some are still left wanting?

Very true. There are indications for now anyway that combo applications without embassy letters are at high risk of not being accepted. People with time and ability to prepare that were counting on that are best advised to prepare for the pure bank method with seasoned funds. Bad news but the best we can do is try to be proactive.

 

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

[Pib]

1 hour ago, jesimps said:

The TransferWise PDF confirmation form has all the information TI could possibly want, unfortunately it's in English and I reckon a lot of IOs wouldn't be able to read it.

Heck, the Thai bank letter I get every year for using the Bt800K in the bank method is in English. 

 

I expect TI does not want to get involved in reviewing many different types of transfer docs from a home country bank/money sender which may or may not be in English and in various formats...and such docs could easily be faked on a person's computer in this age of easily make your own PDF, Word, etc., docs.   

 

But docs from a "Thai bank" is what they are use to seeing, whether in Thai or English, and they can easily confirm with that Thai bank if the docs are legit by a call to the bank.   

 

Plus the TI rule says they are looking for a "bank statement" showing money transfer from overseas and while it does not specifically say "Thai bank statement" that is what is implied/meant.  Now we will have to set back and watch "after action extension reports" from TV members as to if laying a bunch of Transferwise PDF receipts in front of the immigration officer along with a Thai bank statement coding these transfers are domestic transfer flies or not. 

 

But I also know from reading many ThaiVisa posts that even some folks using SWIFT end up with coding that does not reflect international coding because of how the Thai bank possibly rec'd the funds from an intermediary Thai bank or just because the head office transferred it to the person's local branch.  In those cases TI may also require some additional docs.   

 

This "transfer coding issue" is something TI is really going to have to bend on somewhat I would thing (hope).  Will need to watch the TV reports over 2019.

 

And no doubt you will see some reports where supporting docs like TW receipts flew and others where it didn't as This Is Thailand.   But one thing that will always fly is a Thai bank statement with coding showing the transfers were from overseas/international. 

 

   

Edited January 22, 2019 by Pib

[jesimps]

11 minutes ago, Pib said:

Heck, the Thai bank letter I get every year for using the Bt800K in the bank method is in English. 

 

I expect TI does not want to get involved in reviewing many different types of transfer docs from a home country bank/money sender which may or may not be in English and in various formats...and such docs could easily be faked on a person's computer in this age of easily make your own PDF, Word, etc., docs.   

 

But docs from a "Thai bank" is what they are use to seeing, whether in Thai or English, and they can easily confirm with that Thai bank if the docs are legit by a call to the bank.   

 

Plus the TI rule says they are looking for a "bank statement" showing money transfer from overseas and while it does not specifically say "Thai bank statement" that is what is implied/meant.  Now we will have to set back and watch "after action extension reports" from TV members as to if laying a bunch of Transferwise PDF receipts in front of the immigration officer along with a Thai bank statement coding these transfers are domestic transfer flies or not. 

 

But I also know from reading many ThaiVisa posts that even some folks using SWIFT end up with coding that does not reflect international coding because of how the Thai bank possibly rec'd the funds from an intermediary Thai bank or just because the head office transferred it to the person's local branch.  In those cases TI may also require some additional docs.   

 

This "transfer coding issue" is something TI is really going to have to bend on somewhat I would thing (hope).  Will need to watch the TV reports over 2019.

 

And no doubt you will see some reports where supporting docs like TW receipts flew and others where it didn't as This Is Thailand.   But one thing that will always fly is a Thai bank statement with coding showing the transfers were from overseas/international. 

 

   

My post that was quoted was in reply to a post wandering why TI couldn't match the TW confirmation with the amount in the bank statement, I was just suggesting a POSSIBLE reason why this wouldn't fly. I know what the police amendment states thank you.

As a matter of interest, I've just initiated a transfer from my UK bank to SCB here using swift. I'll post what it says on my statement regarding the transfer. 

 

[Agusts]

Open a Bangkok Bank account and transfer into that....!  

[wgdanson]

4 hours ago, jesimps said:

The TransferWise PDF confirmation form has all the information TI could possibly want, unfortunately it's in English and I reckon a lot of IOs wouldn't be able to read it.

They could read the letter from the British Embassy alright, and your passport, so why not a bank/transfer statement.

[farangx]

16 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

They could read the letter from the British Embassy alright, and your passport, so why not a bank/transfer statement.

Why would they want to read a letter that is not stamped and signed?

 

[Jingthing]

18 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

They could read the letter from the British Embassy alright, and your passport, so why not a bank/transfer statement.

They could do lots of things, but they want to do the minimum. Don't make applications based on hopes and dreams. Be realistic about what we're dealing with here. 

[wgdanson]

2 minutes ago, farangx said:

Why would they want to read a letter that is not stamped and signed?

 

Read the post by jesimps to which I replied, and then come back with a sensible reply please.

[wgdanson]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

They could do lots of things, but they want to do the minimum. Don't make applications based on hopes and dreams. Be realistic about what we're dealing with here. 

I was merely saying that, in reply to jesimps, who suggested IOs could not read English.

[Mister T]

Here is another spanner in the inconsistent immi office wheels. Two friends went to Chumpon immigration, one had the 400k for his marriage extension as per many years prior. They looked at his bank book and bank letter and said because there had been no activity, he had to pay 20k to get his extension. The other chap showed his 800k in the bank as per previous years, IO said can not do now, must show 65k per month.

[jacko45k]

22 minutes ago, Mister T said:

Here is another spanner in the inconsistent immi office wheels. Two friends went to Chumpon immigration, one had the 400k for his marriage extension as per many years prior. They looked at his bank book and bank letter and said because there had been no activity, he had to pay 20k to get his extension. The other chap showed his 800k in the bank as per previous years, IO said can not do now, must show 65k per month.

Perhaps they got the 'chump' in Chumpon!

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, Mister T said:

Here is another spanner in the inconsistent immi office wheels. Two friends went to Chumpon immigration, one had the 400k for his marriage extension as per many years prior. They looked at his bank book and bank letter and said because there had been no activity, he had to pay 20k to get his extension. The other chap showed his 800k in the bank as per previous years, IO said can not do now, must show 65k per month.

Hopefully (fingers crossed) Chumpon office is an extreme outlier! 

[jesimps]

2 hours ago, wgdanson said:

They could read the letter from the British Embassy alright, and your passport, so why not a bank/transfer statement.

Because the embassy letter is a familiar format from which they pick out the figures to convert to baht. It's also stamped and signed so they know it's genuine, as is the bank letter. I hope they do accept the TW confirmation of transfer, I have a load of them.

[jesimps]

4 hours ago, Agusts said:

Open a Bangkok Bank account and transfer into that....!  

I'll see how the swift transfer from my UK bank to my SCB account is classified first.

[puukao]

sorry if hijacking, but this is just one more reason why i cannot retire here.  went from 90% chance to 50% to 1%, currently.  this isn't really the proverbial straw, but part of the straw.  lol

[Jingthing]

17 minutes ago, puukao said:

sorry if hijacking, but this is just one more reason why i cannot retire here.  went from 90% chance to 50% to 1%, currently.  this isn't really the proverbial straw, but part of the straw.  lol

I don't recommend it to people and haven't for a long time.

The main reason is no path to permanent residence from retirement extensions.

Same insecure temporary status the first year or the 50th (that's optimistic). 

I knew that coming in and hopefully everyone knows that coming in, but nobody really knows how they're going to FEEL about that after several years here. I do. It sucks. 

Edited January 22, 2019 by Jingthing

[jesimps]

5 hours ago, puukao said:

sorry if hijacking, but this is just one more reason why i cannot retire here.  went from 90% chance to 50% to 1%, currently.  this isn't really the proverbial straw, but part of the straw.  lol

Add to this lot the uncertainty of whether or not they'll impose compulsory medical insurance on us and you'll understand why I for one am making contingency plans for a move to the Philippines. It's like walking on eggshells here at the moment wandering what they'll come up with next. Even when they do amend the rules, the changes are so ambiguous that nobody knows whether their extensions will be granted until they present their evidence to the individual immigration officer.

Edited January 22, 2019 by jesimps

[Jingthing]

37 minutes ago, jesimps said:

Add to this lot the uncertainty of whether or not they'll impose compulsory medical insurance on us and you'll understand why I for one am making contingency plans for a move to the Philippines. It's like walking on eggshells here at the moment wandering what they'll come up with next. Even when they do amend the rules, the changes are so ambiguous that nobody knows whether their extensions will be granted until they present their evidence to the individual immigration officer.

Yeah, I think everyone should have a backup / back out plan, or two. In any case for the people that continue to insist on "retiring" here under these conditions --  rent, don't buy.