Refused 1st Retirement extension

[granuaile]

11 hours ago, Jingthing said:

I don't recommend it to people and haven't for a long time.

The main reason is no path to permanent residence from retirement extensions.

Same insecure temporary status the first year or the 50th (that's optimistic). 

I knew that coming in and hopefully everyone knows that coming in, but nobody really knows how they're going to FEEL about that after several years here. I do. It sucks. 

That's one of the things I think about as well and as I get older it sucks more and more. It makes every year feel uncertain, especially when things change such as the U.S. and some other embassies ending the income affidavits. I do have a letter and my social security and pension statements, so I'm pretty sure I'm OK this year (knock on wood) but even if I were willing to transfer the funds to Thailand it would effectively keep me from traveling anywhere for much more than a month. It also means I can't help my kid back in the states out if he needs it.

[garyk]

35 minutes ago, granuaile said:

That's one of the things I think about as well and as I get older it sucks more and more. It makes every year feel uncertain, especially when things change such as the U.S. and some other embassies ending the income affidavits. I do have a letter and my social security and pension statements, so I'm pretty sure I'm OK this year (knock on wood) but even if I were willing to transfer the funds to Thailand it would effectively keep me from traveling anywhere for much more than a month. It also means I can't help my kid back in the states out if he needs it.

Yea, when you get older no one wants to put up with this kind of thing. Hopefully with the new rules in place, it will deter westerners from considering Thailand as a retirement destination. The deck was always stacked against you here, this is just the last nail in the coffin so to speak.

[JLCrab]

18 minutes ago, garyk said:

Hopefully with the new rules in place, it will deter westerners from considering Thailand as a retirement destination.

Well maybe it will be that westerners will no longer consider Thailand to be a steerage-class retirement destination.

[garyk]

15 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

Well maybe it will be that westerners will no longer consider Thailand to be a steerage-class retirement destination.

Steerage-class has everything to do with pensioners wanting to retire to Thailand?

Steerage-class in western countries means first class here. That is the ONLY reason to consider Thailand. 

 

Are you saying the rich and wealthy want to come to Thailand to retire... haha

Edited January 22, 2019 by garyk

[JLCrab]

16 minutes ago, garyk said:

Steerage-class in western countries means first class here. That is the ONLY reason to consider Thailand. 

Says you.

[granuaile]

10 minutes ago, garyk said:

Steerage-class has everything to do with pensioners wanting to retire to Thailand?

Are you saying the rich and wealthy want to come to Thailand to retire... haha

Yeah, they have a lot of locations to choose from. I may come back to live in Thailand in the future, but I might consider Indonesia or the Philippines or South America. However I have a bucket list of 20+ countries to make extended visits to, and locking my resources down in one place isn't something I'm willing to do. I wish I were super rich, I'd certainly spread it around a lot of places...

[garyk]

1 minute ago, JLCrab said:

Says you.

Na, says 95% of all retiree's that come to Thailand.

Not only westerners but ALL!

[garyk]

2 minutes ago, granuaile said:

Yeah, they have a lot of locations to choose from. I may come back to live in Thailand in the future, but I might consider Indonesia or the Philippines or South America. However I have a bucket list of 20+ countries to make extended visits to, and locking my resources down in one place isn't something I'm willing to do. I wish I were super rich, I'd certainly spread it around a lot of places...

Yea you are not alone. I feel the same way.

[JLCrab]

4 minutes ago, garyk said:

Na, says 95% of all retiree's that come to Thailand.

Not only westerners but ALL!

I spent almost 20 years working in China and SE Asia before deciding to move to Thailand being already conversant in Thai language. If you guys want to have a dart-board approach to where you choose to stay, that's up to you.

[garyk]

17 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

I spent almost 20 years working in China and SE Asia before deciding to move to Thailand being already conversant in Thai language. If you guys want to have a dart-board approach to where you choose to stay, that's up to you.

Come on JL, how many retiree's have spent 20 years working here and are fluent in Thai before moving here. 

Most are working stiffs from other countries that want a better life with limited funds.

Have a good one.

Edited January 22, 2019 by garyk

[JLCrab]

13 minutes ago, garyk said:

Most are working stiffs from other countries that want a better life with limited funds.

So?

 

When I first moved here (on Multi-entry 1-year Non-IMM B) one could stay in LOS for years on nothing but 30 day visa-exempt entries with no question as to source of funds.

 

Things change as is the right of any sovereign country. 

Edited January 22, 2019 by JLCrab

[soalbundy]

On 1/18/2019 at 6:50 PM, ubonjoe said:

That is not correct. The combination option is still allowed. There were no changes made to the police order for it. I think there is apparently some confusion going on at immigration about the changes.

Did you to the office in the city at Rajabhat university or Sirindhorn?

How long was the 650k baht in the bank? Was your income transferred into a Thai bank from overseas?

does the money have to come from overseas? I've noticed that while the transferwise deposits of my German pension show the code FTT my British pension transferred directly shows the code BTN which isn't an international transfer.

[garyk]

35 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

So?

 

When I first moved here (on Multi-entry 1-year Non-IMM B) one could stay in LOS for years on nothing but 30 day visa-exempt entries with no question as to source of funds.

 

Things change as is the right of any sovereign country. 

So, I came here with a one year visa years ago. Extremely easy to do.

You are right things change, now Thailand is not a friendly place to spend your retirement years.

In the ump teen years here I have always had a one year visa, in one form or another.

But, it sounds like you are really special JL. So you get a cookie.

 

 

Edited January 23, 2019 by garyk

[JLCrab]

25 minutes ago, garyk said:

Thailand is not a friendly place to spend your retirement years.

But, it sounds like you are really special JL. So you get a cookie.

You maybe mean Thailand is not a friendly place to spend YOUR retirement years.

No -- two cookies and more if I like.

Edited January 23, 2019 by JLCrab

[MyTHaiMyKe]

Some of the Easiest Countries for Immigration

BELIZE allows foreigners to apply for permanent residency after only a year of life there. Enter on a 30-day visitor visa and keep renewing it every month until you’ve been there for 50 weeks. A $1,000 fee and some bureaucratic red tape is all that’s left before getting the go ahead to stay forever.

Pay attention to the conditions on your visitor visa, however. Some districts will require you to leave the country for two weeks every six months, and doing so resets the clock on your 50-week requirement. Note that if you intend to work in Belize, you will also need a work permit, at least until you’re granted permanent residency. After five years of permanent residency, you can apply for citizenship.

 

COSTA RICA has a retiree program that requires $1,000USD per month in income to qualify. Otherwise, you will need a job in order to get on the path to permanent residency and eventually, citizenship.

 

MEXICO the way to start is an FMM visa. You can buy these at any airport or border location. It’ll cost you $21USD. The visa will be good for six months, after which you can renew it again and again, without end. The catch is that you won’t be able to work on an FMM visa.

Plus, legal residents over the age of 60 receive airline, grocery, and restaurant discounts.

 

PANAMA a retiree visa is one of the most popular pathways that people use to live in Panama. It requires a monthly income of $1,000USD. For younger people, a $5,000USD deposit in a Panamanian bank opens the door to permanent residency. If you happen to come from one of 50 “friendly” countries, all that’s left to make it official is to find a job. A few of the qualifying countries are the USA, UK, Canada, Australia, Switzerland, New Zealand, Sweden and Germany. Furthermore, the country offers discounts to retirees with a Pensionado Visa.

[garyk]

54 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

You maybe mean Thailand is not a friendly place to spend YOUR retirement years.

No -- two cookies and more if I like.

You got it JL you get two cookies!  haha

[garyk]

46 minutes ago, MyTHaiMyKe said:

Some of the Easiest Countries for Immigration

BELIZE allows foreigners to apply for permanent residency after only a year of life there. Enter on a 30-day visitor visa and keep renewing it every month until you’ve been there for 50 weeks. A $1,000 fee and some bureaucratic red tape is all that’s left before getting the go ahead to stay forever.

Pay attention to the conditions on your visitor visa, however. Some districts will require you to leave the country for two weeks every six months, and doing so resets the clock on your 50-week requirement. Note that if you intend to work in Belize, you will also need a work permit, at least until you’re granted permanent residency. After five years of permanent residency, you can apply for citizenship.

 

COSTA RICA has a retiree program that requires $1,000USD per month in income to qualify. Otherwise, you will need a job in order to get on the path to permanent residency and eventually, citizenship.

 

MEXICO the way to start is an FMM visa. You can buy these at any airport or border location. It’ll cost you $21USD. The visa will be good for six months, after which you can renew it again and again, without end. The catch is that you won’t be able to work on an FMM visa.

Plus, legal residents over the age of 60 receive airline, grocery, and restaurant discounts.

 

PANAMA a retiree visa is one of the most popular pathways that people use to live in Panama. It requires a monthly income of $1,000USD. For younger people, a $5,000USD deposit in a Panamanian bank opens the door to permanent residency. If you happen to come from one of 50 “friendly” countries, all that’s left to make it official is to find a job. A few of the qualifying countries are the USA, UK, Canada, Australia, Switzerland, New Zealand, Sweden and Germany. Furthermore, the country offers discounts to retirees with a Pensionado Visa.

There are a lot of nice places that want retiree's. But, you have to remember most of the guys here came here and spent their  money on houses, condo's, cars and are stuck here. They have families, wives and don't want to move.

Thailand was never a good retirement destination. But, it is cheap.

I love it here, but i never invested here thankfully.

Edited January 23, 2019 by garyk

[JLCrab]

8 minutes ago, garyk said:

You got it JL you get two cookies!  haha

OK -- now Hit It! MJ Surachate:

 

I beg your pardon
I never promised you a rose garden
Along with the sunshine
There's gotta be a little rain some time

 

[wgdanson]

18 hours ago, Mister T said:

Here is another spanner in the inconsistent immi office wheels. Two friends went to Chumpon immigration, one had the 400k for his marriage extension as per many years prior. They looked at his bank book and bank letter and said because there had been no activity, he had to pay 20k to get his extension. The other chap showed his 800k in the bank as per previous years, IO said can not do now, must show 65k per month.

Sorry to be pedantic, but the phrase is 'Spanner in the WORKS''  as in John Lennon's 2nd book, "A Spaniard in the Works''. Cheers.

[garyk]

13 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

OK -- now Hit It! MJ Surachate:

 

I beg your pardon
I never promised you a rose garden
Along with the sunshine
There's gotta be a little rain some time

 

Beautiful voice, that deserves three cookies...

[jesimps]

Why do I feel like most on here are being lectured by you. You must have a degree in stating the obvious. A-levels in smugness. Bet you were the teacher's pet at school.

 

Edited January 23, 2019 by jesimps

[Mister T]

6 hours ago, wgdanson said:

Sorry to be pedantic, but the phrase is 'Spanner in the WORKS''  as in John Lennon's 2nd book, "A Spaniard in the Works''. Cheers.

I do not need to quote others, but thanks anyway Wang.

[bmore99]

The clauses specified have been amended, but the memorandum itself re writes the two sections of orders for supporting documents.
 
Currently the financial requirements for retirement are 
65k income per month
800k in bank
combination of annual earnings and savings
 
The supporting documentation as revised 
Income of 65k transferred into bank
Letter from bank showing 800k
 
There is no provision for showing annual earnings.

The income letter from embassy is still valid as usual. I just got my extension based on it. The old rules are unchanged.

Only embassies of 4 countries don't issue the letters anymore. For people from those countries it's money in the bank (and?)/or monthly transfers. The monthly transfers being a new additional possibility. The "and" un-proven so far.


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[Jingthing]

The income letter from embassy is still valid as usual. I just got my extension based on it. The old rules are unchanged.

Only embassies of 4 countries don't issue the letters anymore. For people from those countries it's money in the bank (and?)/or monthly transfers. The monthly transfers being a new additional possibility. The "and" un-proven so far.


Sent from my SM-A730F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

The bank method stands for all as embassy letters were never needed for bank method applications.

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[bmore99]

Oh, your post was only about bank methods, while other options are still available?
Wasn't clear to me. Looked more to me like you wrote only bank methods are available nowadays. Sorry.

The bank method stands for all as embassy letters were never needed for bank method applications.

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[Ebumbu]

On 1/18/2019 at 4:49 AM, ubonjoe said:

I think the 65k baht number was more of an example than a fixed number for the new rules for proof of income. For the combination option annual income would be calculated based upon on the income shown on the bank statements to determine the amount needed in the bank.

Hi. Are you saying that it's not necessary to show consistent monthly deposits of 65,000 or more (every single month) in a Thai bank to use the combo method? My income varies. Sometimes high, sometimes low. In your opinion, can I use the combo method by showing inconsistent deposit amounts over a year that nevertheless add up to 800,000 when added to the balance? That would be great and is weighing on my mind.   ????  Some months, no deposit. Some months, high deposit. 

 

[ubonjoe]

6 minutes ago, Ebumbu said:

Hi. Are you saying that it's not necessary to show consistent monthly deposits of 65,000 or more (every single month) in a Thai bank to use the combo method?

You certainly would not need to show 65k baht income to meet the requirement for a the combination option. The amount every month should not matter if they are being transferred into the country. The total of them is what matters to reach a total of 800k baht with the money in the bank.

[Jingthing]

Oh, your post was only about bank methods, while other options are still available?
Wasn't clear to me. Looked more to me like you wrote only bank methods are available nowadays. Sorry.



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No I never said that at all.
I have said that combo applications without embassy letters may be problematical. Personally I wouldn't advise risking that if I could do a 800k bank method seasoned instead as the latter is a sure thing.

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[Jingthing]

You certainly would not need to show 65k baht income to meet the requirement for a the combination option. The amount every month should not matter if they are being transferred into the country. The total of them is what matters to reach a total of 800k baht with the money in the bank.

First year very few people are going to have 12 monthly transfers to show for a combo application without embassy letter.Yes I read the leniency memo. Combo applications are not mentioned

Combo applications with embassy don't look at transfers for the income portion. Only the amount in the letter. How do you figure they would annualize partial year monthly transfers for a combo no embassy letter application where no two transfers are the same amount?

Are you entirely confident that combo applications without embassy letters will generally be accepted especially with partial year imports being the first year?

I am not and if you are I'd like to hear the rationale for that confidence.

Talking here about enforcement expectations in real life rather than a lawyerly reading of the new memos.

How about the at least one report of a combo application with no embassy letter being rejected presumably because the office expected full 65k transfers for all income applications without embassy letter?

How can you know at this point whether that is an outlier or not?

 

To add if it's the case that you're just not sure yet how these combo applications without embassy letter especially the first year are going to be enforced I would consider that a very valid response as well. That is where I'm at currently which is why I'm advising people to not even take the risk with that for now if they can manage a seasoned 800k bank method application.

 

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[ubonjoe]

11 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Are you entirely confident that combo applications without embassy letters will generally be accepted especially with partial year imports being the first year?

I do not wish to get into a long discussion about it again. I am certain we will get a clarification about it from immigration in due time.

For a partial year it is hard to say how they would do it. Perhaps a total of the months shown and then a average of those months multiplied by 12 to get a total for a full year.

I would suggest to anybody planning to do the combination to start bringing in their money now.