Refused 1st Retirement extension

[cleopatra2]

23 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

I do not wish to get into a long discussion about it again. I am certain we will get a clarification about it from immigration in due time.

For a partial year it is hard to say how they would do it. Perhaps a total of the months shown and then a average of those months multiplied by 12 to get a total for a full year.

I would suggest to anybody planning to do the combination to start bringing in their money now.

For the combination method, the amendment could have included a clause similar to paragraph 2 ( re worded) of the procedure for section 2.18. to address the annual earnings portion.

The fact that the person responsible for drating the amendment failed to do this either means the combination method has been overlooked or now not available without embassy letter.

Edited January 24, 2019 by cleopatra2

[Jingthing]

I do not wish to get into a long discussion about it again. I am certain we will get a clarification about it from immigration in due time.
For a partial year it is hard to say how they would do it. Perhaps a total of the months shown and then a average of those months multiplied by 12 to get a total for a full year.
I would suggest to anybody planning to do the combination to start bringing in their money now.

I respect that you don't wish to get into a prolonged discussion about these currently foggy matters.

However I'm somewhat at a loss to interpret what you did write.

Am I correct in reading that you expect clarification from immigration to mean that you have confidence that combo applications in general enforcement without embassy letters will be consistently accepted but we just don't have all the technical particulars yet?

That's how I read you but I do not want to make false assumptions.



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[ubonjoe]

18 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Am I correct in reading that you expect clarification from immigration to mean that you have confidence that combo applications in general enforcement without embassy letters will be consistently accepted but we just don't have all the technical particulars yet?

Yes that is what I meant.

This is what they need to correct or clarify. If they had left the 65k baht out of the amendment it would of been better.

 

[cleopatra2]

31 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Yes that is what I meant.

This is what they need to correct or clarify. If they had left the 65k baht out of the amendment it would of been better.

 

Would the option for providing embassy letter need to be removed from the procedure .

It appears somewhat contradictory to issue an amendment dealing with persons who cannot get such a letter.

[jacko45k]

10 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said:

Would the option for providing embassy letter need to be removed from the procedure .

It appears somewhat contradictory to issue an amendment dealing with persons who cannot get such a letter.

Only 4 Embassies have stopped issuing letters and they are still accepted.

[Jingthing]

OK. Thanks. However I hope you don't find it too objectional if I continue to post here that currently the enforcement expectation for combo applications without embassy letters is not entirely certain so if people want closer to 100 percent assurance of acceptable they should consider preparing an 800k bank method with seasoned funds. I'm going to assume potential combo applicants don't actually have income of 65k or they would be full monthly income import applicants. My focus is on suggesting actions with the least risk and at this point there is no doubt in my mind that a seasoned 800k bank application is less risky than being one of the early applications using combo without embassy letter.

 

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[Jingthing]

For the combination method, the amendment could have included a clause similar to paragraph 2 ( re worded) of the procedure for section 2.18. to address the annual earnings portion.
The fact that the person responsible for drating the amendment failed to do this either means the combination method has been overlooked or now not available without embassy letter.

Similar to what I'm getting at. At this in time any there is definitely uncertainty about combo applications without embassy letters. So I'm saying if can avoid being an early Guinea pig with that why not? At a later date hopefully people can be more confident but we're definitely not there yet. Or possibly never. Wait and see.

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[Thomas J]

Your experience is like mine.  Every time I went to the immigration office I got a different answer.  It does not matter what is on their papers or on the government web site.  I think the real answer is that they want you to use an agency and make it as difficult as possible to do on your own. 

[AAArdvark]

51 minutes ago, Thomas J said:

Your experience is like mine.  Every time I went to the immigration office I got a different answer.  It does not matter what is on their papers or on the government web site.  I think the real answer is that they want you to use an agency and make it as difficult as possible to do on your own. 

No, the real answer is that they simply do not know (yet).

[muffy]

The no tipping sign is the reason .

[mercman24]

my thoughts are for the long time expats, who have lived here, built a house, got a wife, and a couple of kids, on a fixed pension and are no where near this 40k a month income, but have gone the money in the bank/income route. we dont hear much about them, ? there must be thousands here, so if you are out there tell us your thoughts, how will it affect you ?? i dont want to hear about the boasters, *oh i got 800,000 in the bank, i just leave it there untouched all year* good for you, but the withdrawal of countries embassys letters have massively affected thousands.

[Olmate]

4 minutes ago, mercman24 said:

my thoughts are for the long time expats, who have lived here, built a house, got a wife, and a couple of kids, on a fixed pension and are no where near this 40k a month income, but have gone the money in the bank/income route. we dont hear much about them, ? there must be thousands here, so if you are out there tell us your thoughts, how will it affect you ?? i dont want to hear about the boasters, *oh i got 800,000 in the bank, i just leave it there untouched all year* good for you, but the withdrawal of countries embassys letters have massively affected thousands.

For sure, also pretty likely the majority are still totally un aware of these developments as not members of forums etc.

[mercman24]

ok , what countries still issue the income / money in the bank method and how can i become a citizen .

[jacko45k]

4 minutes ago, mercman24 said:

ok , what countries still issue the income / money in the bank method and how can i become a citizen .

Panama, to become a citizen you have to deposit the equivalent of 800,000 baht in a bank account there and leave it untouched!

(This is humour!)

Edited January 28, 2019 by jacko45k

[mercman24]

good reply to post 120, i am the same as you, i would rather my 18,000 uk pounds was in my UK bank than in a thai bank for 3 months untouched, i was doing the , pension income/bank monies for years also. now at a stroke of a pen all this has stopped, these embassiesis have dropped us right in the poo.

Edited January 28, 2019 by mercman24

[skatewash]

On 1/22/2019 at 8:21 AM, wgdanson said:

Surely, the banks will be the ones issuing letters for the IO to see, the IO is not going to trawl through bank and transfer statements. So it is up to you to liase with your bank, who know the route the money has taken, to say on their letter to IO, that this money was brought in from abroad, no matter what route it took before it got to your bank.

That's an open question.  Currently, in the lump sum method for three months, the bank letter identifies that you have an account and the balance on a particular day, but it does not specifically say anything about it never falling below the 800,000 balance threshold.  The IO determines if this account qualifies based on examining the bank statement (not letter) and/or the bank passbook.  If this same bank letter is used for the monthly deposit method then again it would fall on the IO to determine that there were 12 international monthly deposits into the account.  I don't think it's guaranteed that the bank letter will specify this.

Currently, the bank letter is very simple and understandable to the bank.  It's basically a letter that says you have a particular balance on a particular date.  I imagine this sort of thing may get done for purposes other than immigration, say, for example, getting a loan perhaps.  That is, it is a standard type of bank letter and aside from the fact that it's specifically addressed to immigration, it is not really an immigration-specific letter.  Will banks agree to produce an immigration-specific letter for the monthly deposit method?  Remains to be seen.

[rott]

Am I missing something or is the OP yet to come back and advise how things transpired for him?

 

It could shed a bit more light on things.

[stud858]

I've heard there are retired chaps that go through an agent not having to show any bank book or embassy letters at all. Just a reasonable fee.

It appears that's what system they are looking for.

Much like the border run system for tourist visas.

Probably best just start the hunt for an agent closest to the top of the pyramid.

[whitefarang]

have you thought about it  , just to sue them for gross negligence , in this case doing a proper job  ,which is I know hard for them

[lopburi3]

12 minutes ago, stud858 said:

I've heard there are retired chaps that go through an agent not having to show any bank book or embassy letters at all. Just a reasonable fee.

It appears that's what system they are looking for.

Much like the border run system for tourist visas.

Probably best just start the hunt for an agent closest to the top of the pyramid.

What do you think the recent arrests at Don Muang were about?  Suspect the arrested foreigners used an agent who used those officers.  Not a good time to be thinking of taking shortcuts IMHO.  

[Jingthing]

my thoughts are for the long time expats, who have lived here, built a house, got a wife, and a couple of kids, on a fixed pension and are no where near this 40k a month income, but have gone the money in the bank/income route. we dont hear much about them, ? there must be thousands here, so if you are out there tell us your thoughts, how will it affect you ?? i dont want to hear about the boasters, *oh i got 800,000 in the bank, i just leave it there untouched all year* good for you, but the withdrawal of countries embassys letters have massively affected thousands.

Absolutely. This refusal of the four embassies to issue income letters is going to indirectly lead to the deaths of numerous older people. I realize that sounds like hyperbole but if you really take the time to think it through you'll probably realize I'm right. The embassies should have tried harder to keep that service going even if it meant limited the types of income they were willing and able to verify.

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[stud858]

11 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

What do you think the recent arrests at Don Muang were about?  Suspect the arrested foreigners used an agent who used those officers.  Not a good time to be thinking of taking shortcuts IMHO.  

There are those agents who know the officers up top. You just have to choose the right agent and if in doubt go to your first trip together to immigration to make sure it's kosher. There's a right way and a wrong way, but sure you gotta use your smarts.

[marcusarelus]

4 minutes ago, stud858 said:

There are those agents who know the officers up top. You just have to choose the right agent and if in doubt go to your first trip together to immigration to make sure it's kosher. There's a right way and a wrong way, but sure you gotta use your smarts.

What do you do if all the officers at a location are transferred?

[stud858]

2 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

What do you do if all the officers at a location are transferred?

The agents are probably so well ingrained they make new friends with the new officers. But I'd personally recommend tagging along with the agent until you are comfortable. 

As a test, maybe some of you when at the office next time, say something like, I'm applying for an extension and my agent will be coming soon , but I was hoping to get a tm40 form from you. See what they say.

[Olmate]

13 minutes ago, stud858 said:

The agents are probably so well ingrained they make new friends with the new officers. But I'd personally recommend tagging along with the agent until you are comfortable. 

As a test, maybe some of you when at the office next time, say something like, I'm applying for an extension and my agent will be coming soon , but I was hoping to get a tm40 form from you. See what they say.

Sorry you’ve lost me there, not sure what your getting at. 

[stud858]

1 hour ago, Olmate said:

Sorry you’ve lost me there, not sure what your getting at. 

In short, don't worry if officers change about, the agents will be introduced to new officer and business as usual.

If you are with the agent or nearby when the agent spins his magic you'll see what the relationship is like. 

But at the end of the day you choose what's good for you.

It just seems to me, those trying it on their own are met with more and more hurdles.

I've seen preferential treatment at land office too. Those people acting as agents but walk around so comfortable and joking with staff as if they own the place.

I'm guessing the officers that caught went rogue outside of office environment to make some side off side cash.

 

 

[farangx]

2 hours ago, stud858 said:

The agents are probably so well ingrained they make new friends with the new officers. But I'd personally recommend tagging along with the agent until you are comfortable.

I don't recommend cutting off the agent like that.  You want his business then be prepared for a hostile takeover.

 

2 hours ago, stud858 said:

As a test, maybe some of you when at the office next time, say something like, I'm applying for an extension and my agent will be coming soon , but I was hoping to get a tm40 form from you. See what they say.

They better be prepared for their extension to be refused, possibly banned from coming here again and/or charge in court.

 

[JackThompson]

5 hours ago, lopburi3 said:

What do you think the recent arrests at Don Muang were about?  Suspect the arrested foreigners used an agent who used those officers.  Not a good time to be thinking of taking shortcuts IMHO.  

Agents would be my last-resort - and only then to get an extension to which I legally qualify, to remain with my wife.  But maybe you mean this story?

 

Quote

The arrest of the three cops on warrants came after a group of five foreigners were caught on January 9th with illegal entry and exit stamps.

Also arrested on warrants yesterday were Victor Adeola, 34 from Nigeria and Wichet Thaweekayujan, 39 and Somsak Bin Hareem, 44.

Adeola found clients for the bent cops while Wichet and Somsak posted the illegally stamped passports.

These guys were doing fake visa-runs, apparently - making it look like people were leaving and returning, who were not leaving at all.  And you can guess the people getting the fake-stamps, given the "salesman" was "Victor Adeola, 34 from Nigeria."

 

Years back, "passport-running" schemes, to get stamps at exit points while the visitor remained in the country, were busted.

 

In all of these types of cases where IOs were arrested, we see IOs running their "own scheme," w/o paying the higher ups a cut.  In this case, likely assisting a criminal-gang to operate in the country to boot.  By contrast, the agent-system appears to be organized like Multi-Level-Marketing, where the fattest-envelopes would go to those at the top.

 

Also, keep in mind, DM Airport is a location where they like to reject-entry to Tourists who "stayed too long in the past" - even though that is not illegal.  Gives you an idea of the types doing that sort of thing, and how pliable they are to envelopes of money.  I wish the chief would bust those IOs, for helping wreck Thailand's reputation.

Edited January 30, 2019 by JackThompson

[SamuiGeezer]

I've been here a while, I don't see any problems with the rules. Show your income in a Thai Bank account or put 800k in your Thai bank account. Why is this so difficult to understand?

[garyk]

On 1/28/2019 at 11:40 AM, mercman24 said:

my thoughts are for the long time expats, who have lived here, built a house, got a wife, and a couple of kids, on a fixed pension and are no where near this 40k a month income, but have gone the money in the bank/income route. we dont hear much about them, ? there must be thousands here, so if you are out there tell us your thoughts, how will it affect you ?? i dont want to hear about the boasters, *oh i got 800,000 in the bank, i just leave it there untouched all year* good for you, but the withdrawal of countries embassys letters have massively affected thousands.

I doubt those guys are pounding on their keyboards. I imagine that they know about the changes and don't care.