UK PM May makes no change to demands in talks with EU leaders - report

[Andrew65]

Just now, melvinmelvin said:

not correct me thinks

look at the voting figures

 

DUP not supporting PM would not be sufficient to ditch her

 

She would've lost the no-confidence vote by one vote if the DUP hadn't have voted for her.

 

The result was 325 to 306, the DUP had 10 votes.

[melvinmelvin]

1 hour ago, Andrew65 said:

Brussels has made it clear that nothing substantial in the deal will change anyway.

 

Trump/ America's representative has already made clear that a trade deal with the UK would be very difficult under the May deal.

 

What does Britain have that America would want an interest in anyway? The NHS and maybe the City? They can make & do everything they want Stateside anyway, and Trump has made it clear that that's how he wants it.

that is not quite correct

 

immediately after TM survived the non conf Barier expressed

that it just might be possible to go back an alter the deal

(of course that was not an off the cuff expression, but well prepared and anchored)

also,

both Germany and France signalled that they might agree to pushing the Brexit date to March 2020.

 

so, opportunities just may arise

 

[melvinmelvin]

5 minutes ago, Andrew65 said:

She would've lost the no-confidence vote by one vote if the DUP hadn't have voted for her.

 

The result was 325 to 306, the DUP had 10 votes.

yes,

and then you subtract 10 from 325,

in my book you do not end up with 305 but you end up with 315

 

still PM

 

[Thingamabob]

3 hours ago, Snow Leopard said:

Its a no deal exit. 

Agreed.

[Andrew65]

1 minute ago, melvinmelvin said:

yes,

and then you subtract 10 from 325,

in my book you do not end up with 305 but you end up with 315

 

still PM

 

Yes but in my book the other side (maybe) ends up with 316. you work on the assumption that the DUP would never vote against the Gvt, although they suspect that themselves & Ulster would get a worse deal under Labour vis-a-vis the island of Ireland.

[SheungWan]

18 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

you may be right re the possible outcome of a GE

if it were to be conducted during the next say 4 weeks

that is one of the reasons why it was extremely unfortunate that the

Tory internal non conf didn't ditch TM

Life is one long rear-view litany of unfortunate this and unfortunate that.

[Thingamabob]

Worst PM and worst HS ever ?

[SheungWan]

Just now, Andrew65 said:

Yes but in my book the other side (maybe) ends up with 316. you work on the assumption that the DUP would never vote against the Gvt, although they suspect that themselves & Ulster would get a worse deal under Labour vis-a-vis the island of Ireland.

They "suspect...." ? 

[melvinmelvin]

4 minutes ago, Andrew65 said:

Yes but in my book the other side (maybe) ends up with 316. you work on the assumption that the DUP would never vote against the Gvt, although they suspect that themselves & Ulster would get a worse deal under Labour vis-a-vis the island of Ireland.

please, por favor

 

don't change the whole plot/game,

we're talking about DUP not supporting TM

we are not talking about DUP killing TM

 

 

[SheungWan]

5 minutes ago, Thingamabob said:

Worst PM and worst HS ever ?

On a par with the useless wish lists.

[Andrew65]

4 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

They "suspect...." ? 

The Good Friday Agreement was signed under a Labour gvt.

 

How can they "know" rather than suspect anything? Unlike you obviously.

[SheungWan]

1 minute ago, Andrew65 said:

The Good Friday Agreement was signed under a Labour gvt.

 

How can they "know" rather than suspect anything? Unlike you obviously.

Rumour has it that Jeremy Corbyn slightly different to Tony Blair. Even the DUP can work that one out even if some forum contributors might have a little difficulty.

[Andrew65]

3 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

Rumour has it that Jeremy Corbyn slightly different to Tony Blair. Even the DUP can work that one out even if some forum contributors might have a little difficulty.

Rumour had it that it would've turned John Major's stomach to even think of talking to IRA/Sin Fein, when it was obvious that gvt agencies were/had anyway.

 

Without at least talking to such people, the GFA would have probably been impossible. To his credit the GFA talks were started under Major, it was signed by the Blair gvt.

 

Corbyn voted against Britain's catastrophic, and probably illegal invasion of Iraq.

[sandyf]

23 minutes ago, Andrew65 said:

A second referendum would take maybe a year to organise.

That is what the government would have you believe.

There is already a bill in parliament, first read on 9th May 2018 with the first second reading due on 6th July, after various reschedules it has been pushed back to the 8th of Feb 2019. With the government in charge of Commons business every chance it could be pushed back to April.

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/bills/cbill/2017-2019/0208/cbill_2017-20190208_en_2.htm#l1g3

 

Summary of the European Union Withdrawal Agreement (Public Vote) Bill 2017-19

A Bill to provide that any Withdrawal Agreement between the United Kingdom and the European Union shall not have effect without a vote by the electorate of the United Kingdom and Gibraltar to that effect; to make arrangements for the holding of such a public vote; and for connected purposes.

https://services.parliament.uk/bills/2017-19/europeanunionwithdrawalagreementpublicvote.html

[SheungWan]

18 minutes ago, Andrew65 said:

Rumour had it that it would've turned John Major's stomach to even think of talking to IRA/Sin Fein, when it was obvious that gvt agencies were/had anyway.

 

Without at least talking to such people, the GFA would have probably been impossible. To his credit the GFA talks were started under Major, it was signed by the Blair gvt.

 

Corbyn voted against Britain's catastrophic, and probably illegal invasion of Iraq.

We are not discussing Iraq, we are comparing Blair and Corbyn re the DUP.

[tomacht8]

The whole UK chaos annoys. In May the EU has parliamentary elections. If with or without the UK no one knows. The Brexit chaos also hinders the EU massive in their planings.

[SheungWan]

2 minutes ago, tomacht8 said:

The whole UK chaos annoys. In May the EU has parliamentary elections. If with or without the UK no one knows. The Brexit chaos also hinders the EU massive in their plans.

"the EU massive". What's this? A hip hop group?

[tomacht8]

4 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

"the EU massive". What's this? A hip hop group?

The Uk hinders extremely ....

If this is Better englisch for you.

Unfortunately Not a hip Hop group.

[SheungWan]

1 minute ago, tomacht8 said:

The Uk hinders extremely ....

If this is Better englisch for you.

I get more sense down Soi Honey.

[tomacht8]

1 minute ago, SheungWan said:

I get more sense down Soi Honey.

I believe you.

[sawadee1947]

Let the Brits alone. 

They should leave and discuss the decision in UK the following years. 

They disturbing with their permanent cherry picking the mainland Europe. 

As they are resistant to qualified advice they have to gain experience like naughty children. (because they behave like that) 

Unfortunately that will impose painful experience as well. 

But this they will have to find out by themselves. 

[melvinmelvin]

oilinki in disguise just spoke

 

[welovesundaysatspace]

1 hour ago, sawadee1947 said:

Let the Brits alone. 

They should leave and discuss the decision in UK the following years. 

They disturbing with their permanent cherry picking the mainland Europe. 

As they are resistant to qualified advice they have to gain experience like naughty children. (because they behave like that) 

Unfortunately that will impose painful experience as well. 

But this they will have to find out by themselves. 

I tend to agree. It’s a pity; I wouldn’t have thought so some time ago. But the current state the U.K. is in, it is too much of a burden, a risk even, to have it as an EU member. Let them leave and think about what they actually want. The door will always be open; they can always become an EU member again if they want to. 

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, Andrew65 said:

Under their rules, the Tories can't have another leadership challenge until December, and it doesn't look like Teresa-the-Appeaser is going anywhere otherwise, although she has mentioned no Brexit at all.

 

A second referendum would take maybe a year to organise.

 

Brussels has said that it's the May-deal and no other.

 

Increasingly looking like a no-deal Brexit, all other options are quickly disappearing.

Incorrect. The EU will not negotiate further within May's dumb red lines. Scrap those and everything is negotiable 

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

not correct me thinks

look at the voting figures

 

DUP not supporting PM would not be sufficient to ditch her

 

Correct if they abstained but if they voted with the other opposition parties the CONs would be road kill

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

yes,

and then you subtract 10 from 325,

in my book you do not end up with 305 but you end up with 315

 

still PM

 

Think about it

[Andrew65]

2 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Incorrect. The EU will not negotiate further within May's dumb red lines. Scrap those and everything is negotiable 

Nothing is negotiable, the EU also has red lines, why is it only May's that are non-negotiable? 

 

It's already been talked down to what is a pretty sh*t deal for the UK, that will cost £39 billion, with no guarantee of a good trade deal.

 

You could get to a point where a deal is so soft a Brexit that you just as well stay in the EU.

 

You may remember that David Cameron had negotiated with red lines before the referendum, to which the answer was:

 

"Non."

[welovesundaysatspace]

5 minutes ago, Andrew65 said:

Nothing is negotiable, the EU also has red lines, why is it only May's that are non-negotiable? 

Because the EU is in the stronger negotiating position. 

 

5 minutes ago, Andrew65 said:

 

It's already been talked down to what is a pretty sh*t deal for the UK, that will cost £39 billion, with no guarantee of a good trade deal.

The 39bn and a potential trade deal have nothing to do with each other. 

 

[dunroaming]

11 minutes ago, Andrew65 said:

You could get to a point where a deal is so soft a Brexit that you just as well stay in the EU.

That has been the case for sometime, even the weasel Raab said that with May's deal we would be better off staying in.  Hence May's deal being rejected by leavers and remainers alike.

 

Given that May seems to be incapable of getting a more satisfactory deal.... where do we go from here?

 

I think it has to go to parliament and maybe a series of votes on the individual issues or just an open debate.   We cannot keep treading water like this. 

[Andrew65]

4 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Because the EU is in the stronger negotiating position. 

 

The 39bn and a potential trade deal have nothing to do with each other. 

 

True, also the EU is having to negotiate something it absolutely doesn't want anyway.

 

True again, £39 billion is nothing to do with future trade (which is what I said).