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8 hours ago, lkv said:

They have been raiding schools as well, part of the X Ray operation. Of course, the ones that do contribute to the "Christmas fund" get notified in advance about the raids.

Yes - knew a guy on ED Visas for years (on his 2nd language, at the time), who would get an SMS alert from the school when immigration was doing a "surprise attendance inspection" the next day.

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On 1/20/2019 at 7:46 PM, elviajero said:

I can't comment on whether or not you'll get a visa. But you should be aware that having a visa does not guarantee entry, and an METV is not designed for people to stay in the country for 6 months, but to visit frequently for 6 months.

Interesting, never thought of it like that.

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1 hour ago, geisha said:

I am 66 and stay 3/4 months every year. Does immigration take into account that it is 3/4 months once a year only ? 

If you are entering with a visa, you will not have a problem staying in Thailand for 3-4 months every year.

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On 1/20/2019 at 7:24 AM, JackThompson said:

If they wanted to stop the few relatively-harmless "tourists working," they would be raiding schools and dive-locations - not arbitrarily harassing/blocking-entry to self-funded people. 

They have stopped hundreds of (western) 'tourists' working since 2006 when they started the clampdown.

 

Very few (western) visa holders get harassed or blocked. 

 

On 1/20/2019 at 7:24 AM, JackThompson said:

Long term tourism creates jobs, and there are many Thais in need of job-opportunities - so only a traitor who had contempt for his own citizens would oppose it.  There is no logical-reason / aggregate "harm" being done by long-term tourists.  It's only foreign needy/poor who would be a burden or wage-undermining factor in a country.

Please give an example of all these jobs excluding hookers and visa run companies.

 

Whether or not there is "harm" is irrelevant, Thailand, like every other country in the world can decide who they let stay for short term holidays and who they let stay long term. And they can decide the conditions those staying short/long term have to meet.

 

On 1/20/2019 at 7:24 AM, JackThompson said:

 

My personal experience with some officials (though most seem like good people) combined with,

  • Dozens of reports of IOs illegally-rejecting self-funded people entering the country using blatantly-lying denial-of-entry stamps,
  • Every "crackdown" being nothing but a scam to allow corrupt IOs to put more loot  their pockets, while not at all affecting the supposed "real reason" for the crackdown,
  • Agents operating openly, making a mockery of the requirements enforced on the honest to the baht/day,
  • "Extra requirements" added to the published ones, varying by office and changing frequently, to block honest in-person applications (none of which are needed if using an agent),
  • Offices making it increasingly difficult for foreigners married to a Thai / supporting Thai families to stay in the country with unpublished rules - applying more scrutiny than those staying for reasons not related to Thai family

... leads me to believe there is an anti-foreigner / "tribute payers only" agenda being pushed by a clique of corrupt-criminals, who don't care how much damage they do to their country. 

Thailand has a very lax immigration system that is easy to comply with for anyone that meets the requirements. It is only those that cannot meet the requirements and require on the lax/loopholed system to stay that, generally, have a problem.

 

If they were anti-foreigner they wouldn't keep letting us in/stay in increasing numbers. It is - in some cases - how much can an IO screw out of the foreigner whilst doing their job.

 

You are conflating corruption by a few, with a legitimate immigration policy.

 

 

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On 1/20/2019 at 1:39 PM, DrJack54 said:

Elvia, I know this is going sideways and you might not have informed opinion. But anyway here is my question. Over many years I have taken my Thai partner to au. She having obtained METV valid for 12 months. We both only want stay maybe 2 visits of 3or 4 week per one year visa. My point is, there is no way she could stay 3 month exit for week to say Bali. Rince and repeat. Why do western folk think its different in los.

There is undoubtedly a sense of entitlement, but I do not blame the western long term tourists for their confusion. Thailand continue to selectively allow long term tourism, and until/if they set limits the confusion will continue.

 

Personally I think it's a positive that immigration do not set limits, because that would affect all long term tourists, and wouldn't help the few getting denied already.

 

Thailands immigration system is clear to anyone with an open mind to see. But too often self interest gets in the way.

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11 hours ago, geisha said:

Elviajero, how much time is considered too long for a European retiree spending winter time in Thailand ? I am 66 and stay 3/4 months every year. Does immigration take into account that it is 3/4 months once a year only ? 

180 days per year seems to be the unofficial line at which point immigration officers are supposed to scrutinise tourist entry history more closely. I do not think that you will have any problems visiting 3/4 months every year.

 

They are trying to stop people living full time in the country as a tourist. IMO a 3/4 month holiday every year is perfectly reasonable for a retiree.

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1 hour ago, elviajero said:

They have stopped hundreds of (western) 'tourists' working since 2006 when they started the clampdown.

 

Very few (western) visa holders get harassed or blocked. 

Reports indicate there are many in detention each time.

 

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Please give an example of all these jobs excluding hookers and visa run companies.

It's the short-term tourists which immigration loves, who frequent the prostitution / go-go bar / "happy ending massage" places - and those businesses are doing just fine. 

 

It's the restaurants, legit-massages, guesthouses, bars (w/o dance-poles), shops, etc who are being sabotaged - entire streets of which have been boarded-up in some areas, due to immigration blocking their regular-customers. 

 

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Whether or not there is "harm" is irrelevant, Thailand, like every other country in the world can decide who they let stay for short term holidays and who they let stay long term. And they can decide the conditions those staying short/long term have to meet. 

Yes, they can change the laws, but they have not re-written the Immigration Act, which would be necessary to re-define tourists as "short term holidays" only.  Those who wrote the laws liked long-term tourist-spenders just fine when they wrote them - and they have not changed those laws since.

 

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Thailand has a very lax immigration system that is easy to comply with for anyone that meets the requirements. It is only those that cannot meet the requirements and require on the lax/loopholed system to stay that, generally, have a problem.

It wasn't a "loophole" that allowed frequent longer-stays - it was an Feature which benefited the country then, and still does today. 

They just wrote the new METV rules a couple years ago - 60-days each entry extendable by 30 more, with no limits on repeated-use for 6-months.  That's not loophole language or an oversight.  The compromise with the hard-liners was having to fly to one's passport-country to get it, and show stable bank-money - i.e. "keep out the riff-raff."   But now, the hard-liners have decided that still isn't enough, and have started illegally rejecting-entry to those who proved their finances to get that visa.

 

Quote

If they were anti-foreigner they wouldn't keep letting us in/stay in increasing numbers. It is - in some cases - how much can an IO screw out of the foreigner whilst doing their job.

 

You are conflating corruption by a few, with a legitimate immigration policy.

I do not think the entire ruling-class doesn't want us here - or even most IOs.  It is just a clique who has taken control of some offices and entry-points.  They are a hypocrites who use xenophobic-rhetoric to justify rudeness and breaking the law, while extracting tribute-payments to "let us stay" when given the chance. 

 

Meanwhile, they let in a flood of cheap foreign workers legally, who have the precise negative effects on working-class Thais (lowering wages and taking jobs), which they then try to put on us - as if we are stealing Thai's jobs - when it is our presence/spending that helps the same class of Thais they are actively undermining.

Edited by JackThompson
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12 hours ago, JackThompson said:

It is different in Thailand because:

  • We come from nations with higher wages, so we have no reason to abuse Tourist Visas to take jobs from Thai people - or to take legal "work-permitted" jobs at lower-wages than Thais.  The only job taken illegally in significant numbers is "English Teacher" - which the country desperately needs, and where the problem originates with the schools' non-compliance (refusing to supply work-permit paperwork).
  • There is no welfare/handout (or even much of an asylum) system for foreigners in Thailand to abuse, so our presence here is "all upside" with no avenue to "cost Thai taxpayers" money.
  • We spend foreign-sourced capital into the Thai economy - vs poor immigrants who go to higher-wage nations, then "send home" money out of the local-economy which they earn (legally or illegally) - denying that money to local-businesses, causing a cascade of business-closings / unemployment / poverty among the local population.
  • Tourism is a large part of Thailand's GDP - and the GDP estimate does not include the fact that the money spent is foreign-sourced and - for Western tourists - tends to be spent directly to smaller businesses who hire more employees per-baht-spent.  This is much more economically-stimulative then recycled-money from other values included in GDP (replacing broken windows being an oft-cited example of the fallacy of GDP).

Absolute rubbish on so many levels it's waste of time to reply. Bit like dealing with fanatic. Change the boring tune.

Edited by DrJack54
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13 hours ago, JackThompson said:

It is different in Thailand because:

  • We come from nations with higher wages, so we have no reason to abuse Tourist Visas to take jobs from Thai people - or to take legal "work-permitted" jobs at lower-wages than Thais.  The only job taken illegally in significant numbers is "English Teacher" - which the country desperately needs, and where the problem originates with the schools' non-compliance (refusing to supply work-permit paperwork).

No Jack, you cannot work in Thailand or any other country illegally, period. 

 

13 hours ago, JackThompson said:
  • We spend foreign-sourced capital into the Thai economy - vs poor immigrants who go to higher-wage nations, then "send home" money out of the local-economy which they earn (legally or illegally) - denying that money to local-businesses, causing a cascade of business-closings / unemployment / poverty among the local population.

You want to live in Thailand, you have to bring in money from abroad, unless you are legally employed here, or you have a rich wife and sponge off her money, you need to show you have an income transferred from overseas monthly now, no longer can a piece of paper that is worth 3b do the job for you. Besides, how much money have you spent on beers and hookers to help them escape poverty.

 

13 hours ago, JackThompson said:
  • Tourism is a large part of Thailand's GDP - and the GDP estimate does not include the fact that the money spent is foreign-sourced and - for Western tourists - tends to be spent directly to smaller businesses who hire more employees per-baht-spent.  This is much more economically-stimulative then recycled-money from other values included in GDP (replacing broken windows being an oft-cited example of the fallacy of GDP).

No Jack, there is no evidence to suggest that the GDP in Thailand is foreign-sourced.  There are of course foreign direct investments but this has got nothing to do with Western tourists who have a minute impact on the GDP here, what with their weak currencies and as you said often the "expats" have problem meeting the 65,000b transferred from overseas after servicing expenses in their home countries.  These monies from them in that sense is greatly reduced going forward, but will not affect the GDP here nor matter how you overblown those numbers to support your myth.

 

Edited by farangx
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15 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

Absolute rubbish on so many levels it's waste of time to reply. Bit like dealing with fanatic. Change the boring tune.

That is not an argument.

 

13 hours ago, farangx said:
On 1/22/2019 at 11:45 AM, JackThompson said:
  • We come from nations with higher wages, so we have no reason to abuse Tourist Visas to take jobs from Thai people - or to take legal "work-permitted" jobs at lower-wages than Thais.  The only job taken illegally in significant numbers is "English Teacher" - which the country desperately needs, and where the problem originates with the schools' non-compliance (refusing to supply work-permit paperwork).

No Jack, you cannot work in Thailand or any other country illegally, period. 

I don't and I recommend against it.  Thai authorities, OTOH, encourage it, by not cracking-down on the illegal employers.  The current PM actually used illegal-teachers as a stated-reason to "be flexible" with the more-harsh Visa-Exempt rules - evidently to give them a few entries to work-illegally, before finally (maybe) getting their work-permit paperwork.

 

Speak to some folks on the teaching-forum, and explain (as I tried) that they should "hold out" for a work-permit before taking a job.  They say this is impossible.  As I do not work in that field (and have no desire to), I rely on those who have 1st-hand experience.

 

14 hours ago, farangx said:
On 1/22/2019 at 11:45 AM, JackThompson said:
  • We spend foreign-sourced capital into the Thai economy - vs poor immigrants who go to higher-wage nations, then "send home" money out of the local-economy which they earn (legally or illegally) - denying that money to local-businesses, causing a cascade of business-closings / unemployment / poverty among the local population.

You want to live in Thailand, you have to bring in money from abroad, unless you are legally employed here,

We do bring in money from abroad - which is what differentiates us from the wage-undermining job-takers, which immigration allows in with L-Visas, and which are destroying the higher-wage nations that exist (or did exist) on Earth. 

14 hours ago, farangx said:

or you have a rich wife and sponge off her money, you need to show you have an income transferred from overseas monthly now, no longer can a piece of paper that is worth 3b do the job for you.

I had the "piece of paper" from my embassy - for which I could Go To Prison on a Felony (no passport, no more travel, etc) if I lied - plus bank-books showing incoming foreign transfers.   This was long before the new "show the transfers" rule came into effect.   My valid embassy-letter and bank-book proof of the money coming in made no difference to the IO, who wanted agent-money to do their job - not honesty.

 

This is a problem for many in many offices. 

 

14 hours ago, farangx said:

Besides, how much money have you spent on beers and hookers to help them escape poverty.

The recurring theme that all expats are mongers makes me think those posting this theme are not expats. 

 

Short-term tourists are the ones primarily supporting that trade - not counting the majority of the trade, which serves Thai men.  Short-term tourists are welcomed by immigration.  It is those who put down roots and/or marry a Thai and Are Not primary users of those services, who are being targeted for expulsion.

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