rejected entry and sent back home.

[Lovelypaiday]

I was denied entry at Bangkok Suvarnabhumi a few nights ago and sent back to the UK via china, the same way I came, it was rough! I’d like to share my story so i can get some advice on what to do next and perhaps shed some light on current visa policy.

 

here’s how it went. I arrived at around 10pm with a British passport containing no current tourist visa but a history of VOA stamps and tourist visa’s scattered around between visa’s and the like from the United States, Mexico, India, Cambodia, Japan and others, the majority however where Thai stamps. My plan was to spend 30 days or so in Thailand this year before flying to India for a few months where i would obtain a tourist visa and come back into Thailand hence I didn’t make the difficult trip to the London embassy from my rural English location to obtain a tourist visa. The previous year I was also relying on visa exemption stamps with 30 day extensions, this I now realise was an error of ignorance on my side, but in defence of myself I spend 3-4 months a year out of Asia where I am working overtime, 7 days a week, I do not, and never have engaged in any money generating activity in Thailand, I also spend extended time in other countries, meaning that my total time in Thailand last year was around 6-7 months. 

 

The first IO started to inspect my passport, he seemed to be checking this against his screen the convosation went a little like this...

 

you where last here in September? Yes.

so you stayed in Thailand 8 months last year? No, probably closer to 6

you overstayed 2 days? No

you went to India in march? Yes, for around 2 months.

 

he then took me to a senior officer, who asked me why I came here. I answered I have a Thai partner and like to spend time here with her, he said looking at my passport this isn’t good, I said I wasn’t aware I was doing anything wrong, I said I can show you money (I had a few thousand pounds in cash with me) he put his hand up, not looking at me and shook his head. He said this is illegal and told me I wouldn’t be getting entry today. 

 

The rest of the process went quite quickly, I didn’t really get a chance to argue my case and didn’t really know that it was over until i was waiting for the next plane home, which luckily was free. I had my picture taken in the office below and received a blue stamp in my passport, which apparently reads something like, lack of income, unable to support myself. This is plainly untrue as even if I did choose to spend the whole year in Thailand without doing my yearly work I would have enough funds to support myself living a comfortable lifestyle for 2-3 years. 

 

my question is what to do next? I’ve been reading the forums and it seems my best idea is to renew my passport and obtain a tourist visa and enter through a land border, I should be able to get an METV, I’m assuming this will in its own right invalidate the terms of my rejection. I am willing to look into further visas also but right now I just want to get back to my partner so we can work further details out, any advice would be great, thanks 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[surangw]

were you able to get  back on the return flights  easily and in timely manner ?

 

[FritsSikkink]

If you have money get an elite visa.

[Enoon]

 

 

Apply by post for the METV.

 

Send by special delivery.

 

Takes about 4 days to come back.

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

14 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

If you have money get an elite visa.

 

If you are younger than 50 yrs old... Elite Visa is clearly the way to go (if you don't mind paying for it).

 

The Elite Visa is the simplest and most straight forward way of resolving your visa issues with closest thing to a guarantee of entry you'll receive - Cost is 500,000 baht for 5 years.

 

If you are older than 50 yrs old you may be able to get a retirement visa (I'm not sure if you have to be in country to do this - someone else will know)

 

Another option: Obtain a Tourist Visa and re-enter, although that is no guarantee of admittance... and as you mentioned, entering through a land boarder... which (someone should have more information than I) seems not to be hooked up to an immigration Database (research which land borders are more favorable).

 

 

[Lovelypaiday]

24 minutes ago, surangw said:

were you able to get  back on the return flights  easily and in timely manner ?

 

 

Yes, the return home was as efficient as I could have expected

 

16 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

If you have money get an elite visa.

 

That’s a worse case scenario for me, while I could afford it, it would still be a big dent into my savings, I’m only 30 and would prefer to spend the money by investing it to further my education/career ect

[stud858]

METV. From your home country. With returns back to home country.

This seems to be the most appropriate visa option C/w visa on arrival and setv.  I've never heard of problems with METV from home country.

use,  I'm a tourist to Thailand who has friends to visit and funds to support while visiting Thailand. Maybe using visa for visiting girlfriend is not an accepted reason.

 

[BritTim]

There is no point changing your passport. The denial of entry will be recorded in immigration's system. As you recognise, trying to enter visa exempt at an airport was a critical error. As others advise, use visas (an METV probably best) and preferably enter by land. A possibility coming from the UK would be to fly to Kuala Lumpur, and take the train to Padang Besar, entering Thailand there, and then likely making your way to Hat Yai for onward travel within Thailand. Subsequent border bounces and visa runs can be planned accordingly to avoid entering at airports.

[Lovelypaiday]

Thanks for all the advise so far, @BritTim I’ve already sent off for a new passport this morning, so I can’t change that now, but I’ll defo look into that Malaysian route.

 

im wondering if it is wise or not to explain my case and ask for the tag to be removed under knew circumstances eg with proof of funds either at the embassy in London or the land border or weather I should keep my mouth shut? 

[Lovelypaiday]

24 minutes ago, Enoon said:

 

 

Apply by post for the METV.

 

Send by special delivery.

 

Takes about 4 days to come back.

 

 

 

 

Good to know

[JackThompson]

The IO who rejected you didn't want to see your money, because it would be more evidence that the illegality he was about to carry-out was based on a lie.  He may also dislike you having a relationship with a Thai.  You are "sticking around" - and that clique want people like us to pay them off with tribute via agents (or via the elite visa) or go away.

 

1 hour ago, Lovelypaiday said:

my question is what to do next? I’ve been reading the forums and it seems my best idea is to renew my passport and obtain a tourist visa and enter through a land border,

Exactly.   Always use a Tourist Visa, and since you visit more than a few short-trips per-year, never enter at a corrupt, law-abusing entry-point.  That includes both Bangkok airports currently - run by supervisors who don't care what the law says.  Also one bad land-border point - Poipet / Aranyaprathet. 

 

At all other land-entry points, the published laws are followed - they will not lie and stamp that you don't have money when you do absent any evidence this is true.  The most you will need to do is show your visa, plus 20K Baht worth of cash (can be other currencies) or travelers checks.  We also do not have horror-stories from Chiang Mai airport - though rejection by air is a PITA (as you know), so probably worth simply avoiding.

 

Agree with BritTim's advise on METV and coming in through Pedang Besar.  That was the entry-point I used in the past, when I was using Tourist Visas.  Whoever is paying for this longer-stay anti-foreigner operation, is only buying off some key entry points - most are still run by supervisors behaving honorably and lawfully.

 

25 minutes ago, Lovelypaiday said:

ask for the tag to be removed under knew circumstances eg with proof of funds either at the embassy in London or the land border or weather I should keep my mouth shut? 

They will not erase your history - but I do not recall any cases of this blocking entry at a good (law-abiding) entry-point.  If an IO mentions it, say it was a misunderstanding about money, and helpfully show your cash / that you are complying with the financial requirement.

Edited January 19, 2019 by JackThompson

[NanLaew]

Age, nationality and ethnicity are also some of the unstated criteria in any Thai IO's decision-making process.

[NanLaew]

There's a relatively new thread on TV that suggests that the MFA (embassy) databases and the RTP (immigration) databases are or shortly will be cross-connected so the efficacy of passport washing may soon be a thing of the past? With the basic biometrics, I always reckoned the success of any passport change was more due to the indolence of the IO one presented your passport to. From personal experience, if you get one who likes to point-and-click, you're pretty much buggered.

 

That and your age, nationality and ethnicity.

[FritsSikkink]

53 minutes ago, Lovelypaiday said:

 

Yes, the return home was as efficient as I could have expected

 

 

That’s a worse case scenario for me, while I could afford it, it would still be a big dent into my savings, I’m only 30 and would prefer to spend the money by investing it to further my education/career ect

I understand you want to invest in your education/career, I don't understand that you are only working 3-4 months a year and have a holiday the rest of the year to accomplish this.

[Toadie]

Firstly, I'm going to guess you're not caucasian! It shouldn't matter but can and does.

 

I have been Thailand 6 years on back to back TV. Visa runs with passport full of overstays. As long as I have funds and a reason (wife died and I'm still close with family (true)) they haven't thought twice or queried me over it.

 

If you have funds can explain how you support yourself (good money contracting), wife, if GF upgrade to fiancee still arranging with families when best timing, shouldn't be a problem.

 

It is at officers discretion regardless of funds or Visa hence I guessing not caucasian. False marriages reportedly a problem recently in media.

 

Just renew your passport. Passports are only linked in your home country not here. Renewing a passport in Thailand it's the visas that are linked not passports. New passport in home country = not linked to anything in other countries

 

Name, even full name is not a unique identifier. I know 4 of me in same company! Photo taken by them is just a bit of a backstop for them. Facial recognition? Uhmm how many people travelling daily? Globally?

 

New passport, TV in home country. On the very off chance you'll run into same IO and they remember you, different airport. Few photos of GF and msg on phone to show quickly.

 

Travelling extensively throughout Asia without a clear reason may have cause suspicions.  But if your genuine are shouldn't be a problem. I have always found IO pretty straight forward and given the numbers coming through their not sending plane full back.

 

Genuine the key word here

Edited January 19, 2019 by Toadie
Spelling

[dbrenn]

2 hours ago, Toadie said:

Firstly, I'm going to guess you're not caucasian! It shouldn't matter but can and does.

 

I have been Thailand 6 years on back to back TV. Visa runs with passport full of overstays. As long as I have funds and a reason (wife died and I'm still close with family (true)) they haven't thought twice or queried me over it.

 

If you have funds can explain how you support yourself (good money contracting), wife, if GF upgrade to fiancee still arranging with families when best timing, shouldn't be a problem.

 

It is at officers discretion regardless of funds or Visa hence I guessing not caucasian. False marriages reportedly a problem recently in media.

 

Just renew your passport. Passports are only linked in your home country not here. Renewing a passport in Thailand it's the visas that are linked not passports. New passport in home country = not linked to anything in other countries

 

Name, even full name is not a unique identifier. I know 4 of me in same company! Photo taken by them is just a bit of a backstop for them. Facial recognition? Uhmm how many people travelling daily? Globally?

 

New passport, TV in home country. On the very off chance you'll run into same IO and they remember you, different airport. Few photos of GF and msg on phone to show quickly.

 

Travelling extensively throughout Asia without a clear reason may have cause suspicions.  But if your genuine are shouldn't be a problem. I have always found IO pretty straight forward and given the numbers coming through their not sending plane full back.

 

Genuine the key word here

Facial recognition is becoming increasingly very fast and accurate, so don't count on them not matching you with an alias, however many times you may have changed your personal details and passport. 

 

There was a recent case of a fugitive in China who was spotted by facial recognition from among tens of thousands of people attending a sporting event. Imagine his surprise when the police walked up to him and took him away. Pretty soon, the cops will be using it to spot anyone they don't like walking down the street. 

 

At least the OP does have the cash for an elite visa, giving him worry free access, if his next attempt is unsuccessful. 

Edited January 19, 2019 by dbrenn

[SheungWan]

4 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

I understand you want to invest in your education/career, I don't understand that you are only working 3-4 months a year and have a holiday the rest of the year to accomplish this.

And I doubt the IO understood either.

[simon43]

If you are older than 50 yrs old you may be able to get a retirement visa...

 

Just to add that Richard's comment might suggest to some that the Elite visa is only available for those under 50 years old.  There are no age restrictions (other than a minimum age of 18 years old). 

[Lovelypaiday]

5 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

I understand you want to invest in your education/career, I don't understand that you are only working 3-4 months a year and have a holiday the rest of the year to accomplish this.

Yes I can see your point, but I actually never said My current work or taking holiday was in order to accomplish investing in my education/career, I said I would prefer to keep my savings for this purpose.

 

 

 

 

[Essecola]

6 hours ago, JackThompson said:

The IO who rejected you didn't want to see your money, because it would be more evidence that the illegality he was about to carry-out was based on a lie.  He may also dislike you having a relationship with a Thai.  You are "sticking around" - and that clique want people like us to pay them off with tribute via agents (or via the elite visa) or go away.

Agents. I have looked high and low for these so called agents through whom I can pay the tribute these ppl want. I don't believe they exist. Spending an absurd amount of my time always having to worry about the next visa. Go to sleep upset. Wake up upset. Repeat. Might as well just go home and be there. I don't need a visa to be at home.

[Lovelypaiday]

Regards the Caucasian thing - I am Caucasian, and look like an everyday normal guy. It wasn’t racial profiling

[Briggsy]

I am surprised that the airline (China Southern, perhaps??) accepted to carry you back at their expense all the way to the UK. This is not entirely in line with previous denials of entry.

 

However, if you didn't have an air ticket out within 30 days, then Thai Immigration could say the airline failed in its check-in diligence. I suppose that could be a reason.

[Lovelypaiday]

Yes China southern

[cleopatra2]

1 hour ago, Lovelypaiday said:

Yes I can see your point, but I actually never said My current work or taking holiday was in order to accomplish investing in my education/career, I said I would prefer to keep my savings for this purpose.

 

 

 

 

Do not offer to show the money unless asked by the IO. 

Saying look I have the money, can be misconstrued as offering a bribe 

[Yeahbutwhytho]

Wow that encounter couldn't have been more of a carwreck, he thought you were trying to bribe him bahahah

 

[samsensam]

9 hours ago, Enoon said:

 

 

Apply by post for the METV.

 

Send by special delivery.

 

Takes about 4 days to come back.

 

 

 

 

hence I didn’t make the difficult trip to the London embassy from my rural English location to obtain a tourist visa.

 

couldn't you apply by post? it's quick and easy.

[NanLaew]

7 hours ago, Toadie said:

Just renew your passport. Passports are only linked in your home country not here. Renewing a passport in Thailand it's the visas that are linked not passports. New passport in home country = not linked to anything in other countries

Incorrect. Personal experience at Suvarnabhumi was a positive indication that passport information and the types of entry used in each passport is linked in their databases and extends back ~10 years or more. Whether the IO checks this and thoroughly vets the 'tourist' standing in front of him comes under the rules of 'pot luck'.

 

7 hours ago, Toadie said:

Name, even full name is not a unique identifier. I know 4 of me in same company! Photo taken by them is just a bit of a backstop for them. Facial recognition? Uhmm how many people travelling daily? Globally?

Incorrect assumption. There are 4 unique, personal identifiers that come top of the biometrics pile, name, nationality, date of birth, place of birth... that's before they look at the picture. That's why some who are exceedingly desperate to get allowed back in Thailand resort to such things as changing their names by deed poll before getting the new passport. You also may be able to claim dual nationality and get another nations passport. You could also get plastic surgery but you can't ever change your age and where you were born unless you commit a major fraud.

 

[holy cow cm]

A time stamped selfi picture having cash in hand, then a time stamped selfi picture with cash in hand and the passport stamp of refusal might have done something. If not to just P off them more. Too late now. BTW. What is your skin color?

[007 RED]

7 hours ago, Toadie said:

Just renew your passport. Passports are only linked in your home country not here. Renewing a passport in Thailand it's the visas that are linked not passports. New passport in home country = not linked to anything in other countries

 

Name, even full name is not a unique identifier. I know 4 of me in same company! Photo taken by them is just a bit of a backstop for them. Facial recognition? Uhmm how many people travelling daily? Globally?

 

New passport, TV in home country. On the very off chance you'll run into same IO and they remember you, different airport. Few photos of GF and msg on phone to show quickly.

Sorry, but you seem to have absolutely no understanding of how any Immigration IT system works, let alone the Thai.

 

FYI – When you hand your passport to the IO you will notice that they open it at the photo page and then place it onto something on their desk.  That something is an scanner which reads the information at the bottom of the photo page between <<<<  >>>>.

 

The layout of the photo page of your passport follows the format laid down by the International Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO) which works under the auspices of the United Nations.

 

Please take a look at your passport and the information that is at the bottom of the photo page and try and work out what it contains. It’s not really that difficult to decipher.

 

As soon as the IO’s scanner has read the information between the <<<<  >>>> it unlocks the encrypted data held on the so called ‘biometric chip’.  The ‘biometric chip’ contains exactly the same (including your photo) that is shown on the photo page of your passport.  It is the information from the ‘biometric chip’ that is then displayed on the IO’s screen so that they can compare your passport photo page with the info held on the chip to see if there has been any alterations made.

 

At the same time, the data between <<<<  >>>> is compared with information held on the Immigration Database.  Within a matter of seconds your entry/exit history becomes available to the IO.

 

If you have previously entered the Kingdom and subsequently changed your passport the Immigration IT System quickly realises that the passport number is not known to its Database.  It then does a search based upon Country Code + Gender + Data of Birth + Family Name etc.  Again, within a few seconds the photo that was taken when you last left the Kingdom appears on the IO’s screen. He IO then confirms there is a match and your old and new passports are linked, again allowing the IO to see your entry/exit history.

 

There is nothing unique about the Thai Immigration IT System. Most countries throughout the world use the same immigration system software.

[Bert Jones]

That's very interesting to know 007, thanks for posting. I would imagine the system software can also match dual passport holders, so not much point switching between the 2. For example, if you travel to Israel on one passport then to an Arab country on a different passport...the Arab immigration would know...or would it? are the databases linked by country?