SURVEY: What age is too old to drive?

[Nyezhov]

5 minutes ago, blazes said:

This survey reflects, fairly accurately I would think, the average age of the ThaiVisa members.....

Perhaps there should be a choice *when you wear an adult diaper ????

 

I take every chance I get NOT to drive. Ive done my share.

[PerkinsCuthbert]

In most countries, a licence up to 70, then periodic assessments.

In Thailand, bi-monthly assessments to ascertain that applicant can:

• touch tip of nose with finger while eyes are closed, once in one hundred tries.
• stand on one leg for half a second while discussing what to have for lunch.
• follow with one eye a Phak Bung Loy Fa plate as it flies from right to left, then left to right - and crucially, without reaching for mobile phone.
• multitask - for instance by watching the road AND picking bogies from nose simultaneously.
• after simulated accident: remain at scene for more than 30 mins without sweating; NOT claim brake failure as cause of accident.

 

 

 

 

 

[sawadee1947]

There should not be an age limit. 

A brain and reaction test would be more suitable. 

If doing so in Thailand we would be happy. 

Only farangs in the roads.....????????????

[shackleton]

People Are living longer and as long as they are in good health 

Eye  sight ect can drive as long as capable 

after 80 a  assessment of their driving skills could be iintroduced abbé every couple of years 

[zydeco]

Really want to reduce auto accidents? INCREASE the driving age to 30 and above. 

[Basil B]

I am printing this in full as it is a press statement...

Quote

Press Statement: HRH Prince Philip's Crash

18/01/2019

Nick Lloyd, acting head of road safety for RoSPA, said: “We were very distressed to hear of the incident involving our former President, HRH The Duke of Edinburgh, and two other people, and we are extremely pleased and relieved to hear that everyone involved was not seriously injured.

“In the wake of the incident, we have inevitably heard calls for mandatory testing of people of a certain age. This is a red herring – age is a completely arbitrary and unreliable measure for assessing someone’s ability to drive. Statistically, older drivers have fewer accidents than other age groups.

“If we were to restrict drivers based on any relationship between age and accident rates, we would need to take a fresh look at inexperienced, younger drivers aged 17 to 24. Although this younger age group accounts for just seven per cent of the driving population, they are involved in around 22 per cent of fatal or serious road traffic incidents.

"Experience developed over a lifetime of driving helps them anticipate and cope with hazardous situations. They often choose to use familiar routes and plan their journeys to make use of daylight and avoid congested rush hour traffic. The ability to drive gives people freedom to travel when and where they like. This is particularly valuable to people of all ages who live in rural areas where there is limited public transport. Driving enables visits to family and friends, inspirational tourist attractions and everyday shopping. Taking away someone’s ability to drive can have a major impact on their independence and should be very carefully considered because it could lead to an increase in the rising toll of loneliness and isolation that we are seeing amongst older people in our ageing society.

“However, a balance needs to be struck between encouraging independence and protecting all road users. RoSPA therefore encourages older drivers and their families to be aware of their driving ability and other health conditions that could have an impact, and either speak to their doctor if they are worried, or take an assessment such as RoSPA’s experienced driver assessment, which will provide advice as to how to improve driving. More information can be found at www.olderdrivers.org.uk.”

 The Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents

https://www.rospa.com/media-centre/press-office/press-releases/detail/?id=1616

 

I did look at this site as I thought the Duke was their President but seems he stood down a few years ago, but HM is their Patron. 

[Scotssing]

The data from the UK shows younger people are far more prone to accidents than older.  The evidence quoted below from the BBC website shows over 70s safer than 17 to 24 year old's

 

"In November 2018, there were 5.3 million over-70s with full driving licences in Britain, according to the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA). There were 11,245 people involved in road traffic accidents where the driver was in that age group - a rate of two per 1,000 licence holders. For Britain's 2.8 million drivers aged 17 to 24, the rate was more than four times as high, at nine per 1,000."

 

Whether this is remotely applicable to Thailand can be debated but mad scooter drivers do tend to be young. Indecisive ones perhaps tend towards the older group

 

By all means have medical tests for older ones. I believe a year or two back they brought in rules about Blood pressure and one or two other conditions when renewing your licence. But we have to remember that rules in Thailand are designed to be either flouted or circumvented

[laislica]

I hope that this post is not too far off topic.....

 

We see the problem, so is there something we can do to rectify it for the future?

 

Interesting to read that a significant reduction in night vision and poorer eyesight in general is mentioned often in this thread.

This degeneration over time is probably due to insufficient intake of vitamin C.

 

Apparently, all mammals except the apes, humans and guinea pigs, create as much C as they need and it is a lot more than you would think.

A goat of say 75Kg, would on average, make about 15 grams/day, more if it has an infection or is injured, but our RDA is 80-90mg.

That is about 170,000 times less than other mammals need and create from their food.

 

At 77, my eyesight has deteriorated with night vision problems so I don't drive at night.

A couple of years ago I started taking vitamin C (powder form)  at somewhere between 10-20 grams/day.

(The dose must be divided over the day because it is water soluble and if you take a large dose you would pee it away or even get the runs)

Better late than never, perhaps, but my eyesight is more stable than it was.

Also, I haven't had a cold since increasing vitamin C.

 

I have discussed this with my daughter and she has followed it up with her own studies.

She is now adding C to her children's diet, divided dose of course.

 

Perhaps this is something that we have missed because it's only with a zero C diet that you get scurvy and die but just a few mg daily is enough to avoid death, but is that enough to facilitate a  fully functioning and healthy person?

 

Maybe too late for us old farts but why not find out more and help the grandchildren?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[NoshowJones]

9 hours ago, Nyezhov said:

I selected 80 too. My Mom putters around to the Docs at 85.

 

However, the problem with car accidents is young drivers, not old. I think annual driving certifications for the gray/no hairs is fine at a certain age. I also think that driving rules 16/17-21 should be tightened to prohibit driving at night except under limited circumstances, loss of driving privilegesges for any moving violations, etc.

Everybody ages in different ways, for driving or anything else. One sixty year olds driving ie, reflexes, ability to recognise what could happen in front of you etc, may not be as good as one eighty year olds, to do the same.

Age does not come in to this at all.

[Nyezhov]

7 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

Age does not come in to this at all.

I have no problem with regular certifications for everybody.

 

But its sort of a moot point, the cars will be driving us soon instead of us driving them

[rwill]

an assessment of driving ability should start at about 6 years of age here...

[rosst]

The limit is 80 in the Philippines, is there an age limit in Thailand? 

 

[Lacessit]

It's not a matter of age, it's a matter of competence. At age 75, I'm damn sure I am a better scooter and car driver than 95% of Thais. However, that does not mean I don't recognise my reflexes and vision are not as good as they were, and I adjust my driving accordingly.

I avoid driving at night for two reasons - my own night vision, and the egregious morons that infest the roads more than ever once the sun goes down. Drunk, high on yaa baa, simply unskilled cretins - who cares?

I'll probably be heart-broken when I have to give up my beloved scooter. My self-assessment will inform me of when I have to confine myself to navigating on four wheels only. I don't believe I need some nanny-state regulations, which totally ignore the abject failures of drivers in their teens and twenties, to tell me when it is time to quit driving. They are the real problem, you bureaucratic dickheads.

Driving for nearly 60 years now, the only accidents I have had are from incompetents T-boning or rear-ending me. Have never collided with anyone front end. It's called defensive driving. Have not had a single accident driving in Thailand for nearly ten years. If the Thai government had any smarts, it would hire me as an instructor of Thai driving instructors, who are contributors to the road carnage here.

Rant over.

[NaDu]

For motorbikes I think 60 is already too old for foreigners when I see how bad the idiots drive.

So funny that some people can be so old and still don't understand that it is not safe to drive a bike in Thailand.

Maybe just like Thai, they are waiting to have a good accident or even die to understand.

 

[Lokie]

if we are talking LOS then forget any assessments etc, flogging a dead horse - half the population who ride/drive vehicles do not even bother to get a licence for what its worth (competency standard lol)

 

From reports I seen in news re Phil; he was about to cross a main 60mph 'A' road from one side of Sandringham Estate to the other, he pulled out of the junction (cutting across the flow of traffic) not seeing the oncoming Kia car (or thinking he had enough time to cross) The Kia car driving down the 'A' road (with right of way) hit the Range Rover flipping it over. Kia must have been doin 60ish for it to put a Range Rover on its roof.

 

If was any of us you would be getting done by HM's Constabulary for Driving Without Due Care & Attention (Minimum) this carries 3-9 points in UK (normally get 3) and up to a £2500 fine - severity of accident dictates points and fine. IMO Phil should be allowed to drive private estate land (up to them) but at his age he should really be hanging up his boots, not like he's stuck for a lift is it now?

[richard_smith237]

14 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

It's not a matter of age, it's a matter of competence. At age 75, I'm damn sure I am a better scooter and car driver than 95% of Thais. However, that does not mean I don't recognise my reflexes and vision are not as good as they were, and I adjust my driving accordingly.

I avoid driving at night for two reasons - my own night vision, and the egregious morons that infest the roads more than ever once the sun goes down. Drunk, high on yaa baa, simply unskilled cretins - who cares?

I'll probably be heart-broken when I have to give up my beloved scooter. My self-assessment will inform me of when I have to confine myself to navigating on four wheels only. I don't believe I need some nanny-state regulations, which totally ignore the abject failures of drivers in their teens and twenties, to tell me when it is time to quit driving. They are the real problem, you bureaucratic dickheads.

Driving for nearly 60 years now, the only accidents I have had are from incompetents T-boning or rear-ending me. Have never collided with anyone front end. It's called defensive driving. Have not had a single accident driving in Thailand for nearly ten years. If the Thai government had any smarts, it would hire me as an instructor of Thai driving instructors, who are contributors to the road carnage here.

Rant over.

 

A well balanced and sensible approach... if only the rest of society were as thoughtful. 

 

Unfortunately ego and self centeredness take control of the majority of people which is where the rules and regulations need to come in.. what you call the Nanny-State, I call forcing common sense on others who are unable to self regulate - I wish everyone were as thoughtful of their actions as you, but they are not and we will see on this forum how some refuse to accept that their driving has deteriorated with age.

 

 

In Thailand this issue is less straight forward, it is multifaceted and involves lack of training, those without licenses, the common DUI's... why should a driver who's lost 30% of his reaction / ability be impacted when so many others are driving drunk or shouldn't be on the roads at all? - It would seem unfair, yet not wrong, but it highlights how many other aspects of Thailands road use is in desperate need of attention. 

 

In the UK I would suggest that from the age of 65 a yearly medical check up by the local GP is sufficient... any issues and it should be the the GP's responsibility to notify the DVLA and 'patient' that he can no longer drive etc...  The MCU would also benefit people with earlier recognition of issues (and is useful even without the driving issue). 

 

Unfortunately this has the potential to remove some essential independence from aging people, especially in rural areas... however, should someones independence come at elevated risk to others, for the same reason young people should have their vehicles governed, have web-cams installed and GPS trackers to evaluate and punish poor / dangerous driving...  of course, this is all 'perfect world' stuff, and we don't live in the perfect world, but we can take steps to make it better if for no other reason than the protection of our children, the true innocents.. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Lacessit]

31 minutes ago, NaDu said:

For motorbikes I think 60 is already too old for foreigners when I see how bad the idiots drive.

So funny that some people can be so old and still don't understand that it is not safe to drive a bike in Thailand.

Maybe just like Thai, they are waiting to have a good accident or even die to understand.

 

It's not safe to cross the road here either. Are you suggesting I should simply exist in a state of paralysis in my condo?

[richard_smith237]

4 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

It's not safe to cross the road here either. Are you suggesting I should simply exist in a state of paralysis in my condo?

You are not able to hurt someone else when crossing the road.... 

 

But, if you are prepared to drive when clearly unable to safety do so and risk someone else's life I'd suggest that remaining in a state of paralysis in your condo is better for all others around you... 

 

OK, so your comment is in response to a 60y/o riding a motorcycle - ultimately, we should be able to apply our own common sense and not put others at risk... riding a motorcycle definitely reduces the risk to others compared to someone who shouldn't be driving a car driving a car....  but not by much and someone who shouldn't be riding a motorcycle can still easily injure pedestrians and other motorcyclists....   yet, there are still so many other dangers out there which need addressing first...

 

Pottering around carefully on a motorcycle is one thing and quite ok... riding in a state of unawareness of other traffic and its dangers is something else....  sometimes people may not recognize when they have entered this 'second phase' of unawareness, which is perhaps time to put away the keys... 

 

 

[marcusarelus]

I stopped 10 years ago because I kept knocking over things on the road because of the steering wheel being on the wrong side of the car.  No Thai people only Farang so was not a serious problem.  When I moved out of Chaing Mai I became worried I might actually hit someone who mattered and I stopped driving.  I still ride my Harley but I can see on both sides of that. 

[alex8912]

7 hours ago, Nyezhov said:

Thats right young fellow. Its not just reflexes, its maturity and experience. Look at the anger in your response, bet you get a little irritated when a geezer is doing EXACTLY the speed limit? 

 

I can surely guarantee that I have more miles on the road than you do or anyone under the age of 35. I can surely guarantee that I have driven in more places than you have or anyone else under the age of 35. I can surely guarantee that I have driven many more types and models of vehicle than you have or anyone else under the age of 35.

 

But no mind, a 65 clean record driver pays less for insurance than one who is 35 or under. Is that based on senility? Does that make you angry? 

 

I can drive at night. However, I chose not to because my night vision is not the best, so the mature thing to do is know your limitations.....

 

.

Not in the USA. Only under 25 pays more. If your driving record is good a 29 year old and 65,000 year old pays the same. So you can’t see at night but you think you can see well during the day ?? Big hmmm.  Zero anger in my post as well. I’ve driven in 30 states in the US and at least 20 countries before 35. I just don’t like the attitude of 60 something’s or more who REALLY believe they have done more than a 35 year old!! You actually BELIEVE that BS!!  So macho lol!! Many 35 year olds have driven 19 or more years and have clean records and for sure most have better reflexes and eyesight than most 65 year olds. 

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

A well balanced and sensible approach... if only the rest of society were as thoughtful. 

 

Unfortunately ego and self centeredness take control of the majority of people which is where the rules and regulations need to come in.. what you call the Nanny-State, I call forcing common sense on others who are unable to self regulate - I wish everyone were as thoughtful of their actions as you, but they are not and we will see on this forum how some refuse to accept that their driving has deteriorated with age.

 

 

In Thailand this issue is less straight forward, it is multifaceted and involves lack of training, those without licenses, the common DUI's... why should a driver who's lost 30% of his reaction / ability be impacted when so many others are driving drunk or shouldn't be on the roads at all? - It would seem unfair, yet not wrong, but it highlights how many other aspects of Thailands road use is in desperate need of attention. 

 

In the UK I would suggest that from the age of 65 a yearly medical check up by the local GP is sufficient... any issues and it should be the the GP's responsibility to notify the DVLA and 'patient' that he can no longer drive etc...  The MCU would also benefit people with earlier recognition of issues (and is useful even without the driving issue). 

 

Unfortunately this has the potential to remove some essential independence from aging people, especially in rural areas... however, should someones independence come at elevated risk to others, for the same reason young people should have their vehicles governed, have web-cams installed and GPS trackers to evaluate and punish poor / dangerous driving...  of course, this is all 'perfect world' stuff, and we don't live in the perfect world, but we can take steps to make it better if for no other reason than the protection of our children, the true innocents.. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have no problem with having regular medical checks to assess my fitness to drive. In fact, I would welcome them.

I was very amused when I went for my motorcycle licence in Australia at age 68. An old fart among about 15 guys in their teens and early twenties. Top of the class in the written tests. Four washed out, and I got some fairly resentful looks. Qualified OK in the riding tests, not stellar. Adequate. Another three failed through overconfidence.

When my Thai GF started having paid driving lessons with a Thai driving instructor, I had to quietly intervene. He seemed to think seat belts were optional, and rear vision mirrors were just decoration. So I did supplementary instruction myself.

She got her licence, and is a conservative and safe driver. However, if that is typical of the standard of Thai driving instructors, it's no wonder Thailand has the cachet of the world's most dangerous roads.

 

[elliss]

9 hours ago, vogie said:

If was 50, I would probably say 70, but now I'm near enough to 70 I will say 80, when I'm 80 maybe 90.

 

          I  think not ,  when your 90 , you will probably say 60 ,  Alzhimers , or something like that .

[Jaggg88]

I remember my late fathers driving ability deteriorating in his 60s so I convinced him to change to an automatic as he always drove a manual (stick shift). This improved his driving enormously - one foot needed for stop-go, both hands always on the wheel and eyes on the road. My Mother, a non-driver, said even she was more confident in the car with him after changing cars.

[Lacessit]

11 minutes ago, alex8912 said:

Not in the USA. Only under 25 pays more. If your driving record is good a 29 year old and 65,000 year old pays the same. So you can’t see at night but you think you can see well during the day ?? Big hmmm.  Zero anger in my post as well. I’ve driven in 30 states in the US and at least 20 countries before 35. I just don’t like the attitude of 60 something’s or more who REALLY believe they have done more than a 35 year old!! You actually BELIEVE that BS!!  So macho lol!! Many 35 year olds have driven 19 or more years and have clean records and for sure most have better reflexes and eyesight than most 65 year olds. 

Of course you have better reflexes and eyesight. That's a given. Old farts like us adjust ourselves to compensate for those losses. Nothing macho about it, just common sense.

Have you ever done a course of defensive driving? When you have, and when you have also racked up as many years accident-free as I have ( including nearly ten years in Thailand ) you can say you are at the same level. You have 40 years to catch up.

[Nyezhov]

35 minutes ago, alex8912 said:

Not in the USA. Only under 25 pays more. If your driving record is good a 29 year old and 65,000 year old pays the same. So you can’t see at night but you think you can see well during the day ?? Big hmmm.  Zero anger in my post as well. I’ve driven in 30 states in the US and at least 20 countries before 35. I just don’t like the attitude of 60 something’s or more who REALLY believe they have done more than a 35 year old!! You actually BELIEVE that BS!!  So macho lol!! Many 35 year olds have driven 19 or more years and have clean records and for sure most have better reflexes and eyesight than most 65 year olds. 

My eyesight is quite fine during the day, educate yourself on night vision loss. Now the nitty gritty is that I have at a minimum 15000 miles a year since 1973, to be fair. And probably more. 45 years x 15000. At a minimum. And some years I was doing 30,000 a year. Can you say the same? I have had one moving violation in the past 35 years, can you say the same? I have had three my fault accidents in 45 years, two of which were before the age of 21. Can you say the same? In point of fact, while you reflexes may be a hair better than mine, I far exceed your abilities behind the wheel experience wise. I know that hurts but that's the way of the world. Tom Brady might not be as fast, young or strong as a 21 year old, but he sure knows what he is doing.

[Lacessit]

2 minutes ago, Nyezhov said:

My eyesight is quite fine during the day, educate yourself on night vision loss. Now the nitty gritty is that I have at a minim um 15000 miles a year since 1973, to be fair. And probably more. 45 years x 15000. At a minimum. And some years I was doing 30,000 a year. Can you say the same? I have had one moving violation in the past 35 years, can you say the same? I have had three my fault accidents in 45 years, two of which were before the age of 21. Can you say the same? In point of fact, while you reflexes may be a hair better than mine, I far exceed your abilities behind the wheel experience wise. I know that hurts but that's the way of the world. Tom Brady might not be as fast, young or strong as a 21 year old, but he sure knows what he is doing.

I think our young friend is also missing something else in the experience factor. He has been driving, based on his age, vehicles that are no more than 30 years old. I don't know how much time he has done on dirt roads. I think hitting a patch of bulldust between Timber Creek and Katherine would be a new experience for him.

My first car was an FX Holden - a shrunken version of the Chevrolet in 1949. Realistically, it was a pig of a car - drum brakes all round, recirculating ball steering, skinny tires and not even a heater/demister. It was said it cornered on the door handles. None of the acronyms we take for granted on modern cars.

My guess is our young friend, if he tried to drive the FX, would end up rolling it in the first 10 km.

 

[smotherb]

How old is too old to drive is a nonsense question. Like saying, how old is too old to have sex, too old to eat a steak, too old to enjoy a beer. It depends upon the individual and their abilities. So, I advocate testing to determine capability to drive frequently. If you are incident-free--accidents, moving violations, etc.--the time between testing may be several years; however, once you are the cause of an incident, at least annual testing needs to be done until such time--maybe five years--you have proven yourself capable of driving without incident. Of course, there should be some number of incidents which would automatically revoke your privilege to drive.

[Basil B]

7 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

My first car was an FX Holden - a shrunken version of the Chevrolet in 1949. Realistically, it was a pig of a car - drum brakes all round, recirculating ball steering, skinny tires and not even a heater/demister. It was said it cornered on the door handles. None of the acronyms we take for granted on modern cars.

Reminds me of a friends car, it was a Skoda, only good was the rear heated window, great when you had to push it on a frosty morning...

[Nyezhov]

8 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I think our young friend is also missing something else in the experience factor. He has been driving, based on his age, vehicles that are no more than 30 years old. I don't know how much time he has done on dirt roads. I think hitting a patch of bulldust between Timber Creek and Katherine would be a new experience for him.

My first car was an FX Holden - a shrunken version of the Chevrolet in 1949. Realistically, it was a pig of a car - drum brakes all round, recirculating ball steering, skinny tires and not even a heater/demister. It was said it cornered on the door handles. None of the acronyms we take for granted on modern cars.

My guess is our young friend, if he tried to drive the FX, would end up rolling it in the first 10 km.

 

The old Ford's with 3 on the Tree in winter.....yep, no disks, TPS systems, auto trannies, winter wipers...hell I've had rigs in Alaska without heat. I've started trucks by heating them with a weed burner first. He doesn't even know what tire chains are. Or high lifts.

 

Wonder how many times our young friend has driven from Toronto to Anchorage up the Alaska Highway in winter. Hell, I did the Alaska Highway 3 years ago. At my age.

[Basil B]

In the UK all licences are valid until the age of 70 then you have reapply every 3 years, I think licences should be for life, what is needed is for doctors to take time to assess patients ability to drive, I am most certain most people who fall into the "unfit to drive" category see their doctors often.