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BANGKOK 20 February 2019 02:54
uhuh

Why is "application" multisyllabic.

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Thai is a monosyllabic language. 

Many multisyllabic foreign words are abbreviated to one syllable in Thai (dic for dictionary,  mo cy for motor cycle,  com for computer...)

 

But the monosyllabic English word "app" becomes "application" in Thai.

And I hear it pronounced like this a lot, not just app.

Why? 

 

 

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"Thai is a monosyllabic language"

No it isn't, there are loads of words with more than 1 syllable.

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For heavens sake.

I didnt want to start this discussion. 

So "Thai is basically a monosyllabic language".

Care to stick to the topic? 

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I don't think it's correct to say that the other English loan words you mention aren't used in full in Thai eg

ดิคชันนารี is also used. Try Googling it eg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZ96rHQujms

 

Same for คอมพิวเตอร์ eg see
https://www.advice.co.th/product/desktop-pc-server :
...ช้อปคอมพิวเตอร์ตั้งโต๊ะ PC Server รุ่นใหม่ ราคาพิเศษ...
...จัดสเปคคอมพิวเตอร์...

 

มอเตอร์ไซค์ for motorcycle is probably shortened to just 'motocy' for ease of pronunciation because Thai doesn't have the 'cle' sound at the end of a word.

 

แอป vs. แอปพลิเคชัน - both are used as you say
eg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wm6pSWRzbgI
ฯลฯ

 

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5 hours ago, uhuh said:

For heavens sake.

I didnt want to start this discussion. 

So "Thai is basically a monosyllabic language".

Care to stick to the topic? 

That is the topic and it still isn't (even basically)

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10 hours ago, uhuh said:

But the monosyllabic English word "app" becomes "application" in Thai.

 

It doesn't.  It's แอป /ɛ̀ɛp/

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แอบ may be pronounced identically to แอป. (English loan words in Thai often omit tone markers and have unspelt tones and even vowel length so I cannot be sure.) แอบ has a negative meaning. Thai speakers wanted to avoid any negative misunderstanding. This is one possible explanation.

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Thai is a monosyllabic language. 
Many multisyllabic foreign words are abbreviated to one syllable in Thai (dic for dictionary,  mo cy for motor cycle,  com for computer...)
 
But the monosyllabic English word "app" becomes "application" in Thai.
And I hear it pronounced like this a lot, not just app.
Why? 
 
 

I agree, that is very odd, I wouldn’t expect anyone to think of ‘app’ as the short form of application because it is a very modern use of the word and been shortened to App almost from its adoption. If you look it up often it doesn’t indicate that it is an abbreviation. Are you sure that you are not listening to very pedantic people, a bit like me?


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Incidentally on the subject, I believe that Thai is fundamentally a monosyllabic language and it is often apparent. Often the words syllable and word are used interchangeably in primary school books. I have encountered English speakers who are so familiar with Thais that they speak English like Thais. This is a very good foundation for learning to speak Thai but many feel that they are communicating adequately so don’t bother with Thai.



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1 hour ago, tgeezer said:


I agree, that is very odd, I wouldn’t expect anyone to think of ‘app’ as the short form of application because it is a very modern use of the word and been shortened to App almost from its adoption. If you look it up often it doesn’t indicate that it is an abbreviation.

I've got to say that I still think of app as short for application even though I use the word all the time, just like I think of phone as short for telephone, even though I hardly ever say telephone and would expect to find phone in a dictionary.

1 hour ago, tgeezer said:

Incidentally on the subject, I believe that Thai is fundamentally a monosyllabic language and it is often apparent.

That pretty much fits with what I've learnt so far. It also ties in with the fact that written Thai shows syllable boundaries fairly clearly, but doesn't show word boundaries at all. Saying that, there are obviously some two-syllable words, and the way they shorten longer words might be telling:

9 hours ago, katana said:

มอเตอร์ไซค์ for motorcycle is probably shortened to just 'motocy' for ease of pronunciation because Thai doesn't have the 'cle' sound at the end of a word.

don't they also say mo-cy though, even though they can pretty much say the extra bit they've left out? If so, it looks as though they are seeing two two-syllable words and dropping the second syllable in each case. That would fit with the idea that it's basically a monosyllabic language - it can live with two-syllable words, but native speakers will revert if possible. I can't think of any examples of English words being shortened this way.

 

3 hours ago, Briggsy said:

แอบ may be pronounced identically to แอป. (English loan words in Thai often omit tone markers and have unspelt tones and even vowel length so I cannot be sure.) แอบ has a negative meaning. Thai speakers wanted to avoid any negative misunderstanding. This is one possible explanation.

Also, they often seem to use a letter that reflects the original spelling, so maybe another reason for using ป is that it represents a p.

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application sounds more formal and in professional setting like when someone talk in a professional setting they wouldn't contract

 

you need to get out  more if you haven't heard a thai use โหลดแอป แอปไลน์ ฯลฯ in conversation, even in forum post

 

also many seem to misspell it to แอฟ and posts becomes โฟส instead of โพสต์ sometime

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I have heard these things and i was wondering whether i just got the wrong impression (because "application" sounds so incredibly stilted to me and i really hear it a lot)

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I have heard considerable variation in the way the foreign words are rendered in Thai.  For example I have heard the word motorcycle pronounced "mo- cy" quite a bit by the bellboys at my hotel and at the motorcycle taxibdrivers at the  stand nearby refer to the machine as " mo-to-SAI" with the emphasis on the last syllable.  A similar thing happens to the rendering of super highway.  It becomes "su-PAH." I recently encountered the situation of not being understood when I asked to have Equal put into my coffee.  When I showed the sweetener to the server, she said, "Oh! eQUAL!  The linguistic rule seems to that a foreign loan word will be rendered as simply as possible into Thai following the syllabic rules of the Thai language but, if necessary, the rendering will be altered for the purposes of disambiguation and the avoidance of having the rendering of the loan word coincide with an unpleasant Thai Word.  Similar things happen in English.

I will look into how the IT technicians in my hotel use the Thai rendering for a software application.  There may some reasoning for the particular rendering.  Of course, I assume that Westernerses know that before the advent of small devices, what we now call apps were known as programs

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5 hours ago, DogNo1 said:

refer to the machine as " mo-to-SAI" with the emphasis on the last syllable.

 

What you are describing as "emphasis" is not emphasis (a.k.a. stress), but rather a falling tone.  Because it starts higher than mid tone it will tend to sound like stress to non-native speakers of a stressed language, such as English.  The falling tone on the final syllable of loan words from English is very common.

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appen, 2 syllable loan word - and the thai mod to use the 'n' in place of the 'L'; but still the last bit does fall off 

 

but, then the next loan word:

falang, 2 syllable, but the trailing part, is spoken sharper than the 1st part

 

 

would a Thai 'app' another coat of paint?

 

 

 

Edited by tifino
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