Owner of our condo we rent to refuses to give up a copy of the property registration and ID card

[karl2007]

Hi,

 

I meet the requirements to obtain a marriage visa and have gathered all the documents that I need apart from the owner documents. However, my wife and I rent a condo which we have been renting for 2 years. We have asked the owner to give us a copy of the property registration and her ID card. We told her we need it for a visa at immigration. Now, she doesn't respond to our phone calls and messages to her our unanswered. 

 

We went to the juristic office and spoke to the manager, The manager said she can't give us that information without the owner's permission. Which is understandable. However, when we asked the manager to call her she refused to call the owner on our behalf. 

 

After spending time to gather all the documents we cannot provide further because of this. The only alternative is to use my wife's brothers house who are ok to give us a copy of their documents. However, as we don't live there I don't want to put that address down. 

 

We have always paid our rent on time and have never had any issues with her. I guess she is worried about giving us a copy of those documents as they are personal.

 

Any advice on how I can proceed with a case like this?

 

Edited January 23, 2019 by karl2007

[Mavideol]

she's not worried about the copy of the documents, she's worried about being fined for lacking to report you to the IMO and the fines could be quite a lot for the 2 years you mentioned

[VocalNeal]

Not to mention the tax she hasn't paid on the income etc.

[jacko45k]

Perhaps the owner does not know she is sub-letting?

Using an address you are not living at is not a good idea.

 

Move elsewhere.

[Vacuum]

Vote with your feet.

[JackThompson]

8 hours ago, karl2007 said:

After spending time to gather all the documents we cannot provide further because of this. The only alternative is to use my wife's brothers house who are ok to give us a copy of their documents. However, as we don't live there I don't want to put that address down. 

They will make a home-visit, so this won't work.  And because they will make a home-visit, there is no question where you live, and no real reason (pertinent to your extension-of-stay) to ask for more than a copy of your lease and a map. 

 

Many landlords will not provide all the docs immigration wants, purely out of fear they could be misused to defraud them.  Immigration knows this, and don't require any of this when you use an agent, so it's not hard to see what this is all about (in addition to all the other rigamarole they put you through, most of which proves nothing about your marriage/relationship, and all of which magically goes away with an agent's brown-envelope).

 

As others have said, all you can do is move, and get those docs as part of your agreement with a new landlord.  As you probably have a lease/deposit to lose, you could consider doing what I did to avoid corrupt immigration - get a Non-O-ME Visa from Savannakhet, Laos - at least to tide you over until you can get your deposit back at the end of your lease. 

 

There are many empty condos around (thanks to recent immigration-policy), so it is likely a desperate landlord will be willing to provide all their papers - maybe even accompanying you to immigration to present them, which would completely shut-down that avenue for blocking your extension.  Be sure you can get the following copies, signed by the landlord:
Landlord's ID,
Landlord's Home House Book,

Your Property House Book,

Your Property Chanote / purchase-proof,

Your lease.

 

Don't sign a new lease w/o the full list, even if immigration didn't ask for all those the last time.  They like to add a new requirement with each attempt, until you run out of permitted-stay time.

Edited January 23, 2019 by JackThompson

[vinegarbase]

So the moral of the story, before you pay any money and rent from a Thai be sure they give you a copy of the house book and their id and verify the address as well. Also if possible you should try to get a month by month rental contract because most Thai's will never give you your money back if you have to leave early for some reason.

 

I actually had this happen one time. The landlord tried to give me a copy of a different house book with a different address because he couldn't find his and didn't want to waste time looking for it and hoping that because it was all Thai I wouldn't understand what it was saying. 

[ukrules]

One way to force them to speak to you is to stop paying.

 

What did you do last year ? You've lived there for 2 years right ?

[George36]

6 hours ago, JackThompson said:

“and don't require any of this when you use an agent, so it's not hard to see what this is all about (in addition to all the other rigamarole they put you through, most of which proves nothing about your marriage/relationship, and all of which magically goes away with an agent's brown-envelope).

Would the quickest and less costly way be for him to pay an agent to get it done?  Maybe, 20,000 Baht more or less?  Much cheaper than moving and the visa issue would be solved.  Just my humble opinion.  Thanks.

[keithet]

I just had this problem. They are more concerned with the address and landlord's info than my wife's and my marrage. 

If I don't count all the copies of my passport then. 

Almost 3/4 of all our paperwork was pertaining to address and landlord. Even my last embassy letter I can ever use has my address on it. 

Pretty soon they will just micro chip us or put ankel tracking bracelet. 

[realenglish1]

16 hours ago, Mavideol said:

she's not worried about the copy of the documents, she's worried about being fined for lacking to report you to the IMO and the fines could be quite a lot for the 2 years you mentioned

She is worried about her Taxes She is not declaring the income she is getting from the Property, not the IMO

[edwardflory]

.... FORGETTING to mention the possible failure of the landlords possible failure to file a TM 30 ( 10,000THB FINE to landlord )

[DPKANKAN]

16 hours ago, Mavideol said:

she's not worried about the copy of the documents, she's worried about being fined for lacking to report you to the IMO and the fines could be quite a lot for the 2 years you mentioned

Surely they should have copies of both anyway when they did the change of address at immigration?!?!

[Wallander4]

3 hours ago, George36 said:

Would the quickest and less costly way be for him to pay an agent to get it done?  Maybe, 20,000 Baht more or less?  Much cheaper than moving and the visa issue would be solved.  Just my humble opinion.  Thanks.

You work for an agent maybe ?

[Hotrats]

If immigration insist on getting these documents from your landlord, and the landlord refuses to give them to you, then your only option is to move. This same situation occurred for me several years ago. The reason the landlord doesn't want to hand the documents over is usually to do with the unpaid TAX they should have been paying on the rental income, which they presumably have not declared. You can't use an alternative address as a home visit could well be required.

[George36]

46 minutes ago, Wallander4 said:

You work for an agent maybe ?

Funny stuff.  

[digger70]

2 hours ago, keithet said:

I just had this problem. They are more concerned with the address and landlord's info than my wife's and my marrage. 

If I don't count all the copies of my passport then. 

Almost 3/4 of all our paperwork was pertaining to address and landlord. Even my last embassy letter I can ever use has my address on it. 

Pretty soon they will just micro chip us or put ankel tracking bracelet. 

Pretty soon they will just micro chip us or put ankel tracking bracelet 

 what a great idea ,,, just the chip will do ,,, Go to immigration they scan you and on you're way. 

[sead]

The office in condominium helped me with a paper that was accepted at immigration as proof when I wanted to have a residence certificate .

[Sheryl]

You can try giving a copy of your lease and explaining (if asked) that the condo owner lives far away and you can't get their papers. Some IOs will accept this, some won't. There may be a form to be completed by landlords,if so see if the condo office can complete it.

If this fails your options are:

1. Use an agent

2. Move

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Straight8]

18 hours ago, Vacuum said:

Vote with your feet.

Easier said than done, once you have moved into a place, settled in, and even like living there.

[jacko45k]

12 minutes ago, Straight8 said:

Easier said than done, once you have moved into a place, settled in, and even like living there.

And having an uncooperative landlord that won't take your phone calls?

[ThomasThBKK]

Easier said than done, once you have moved into a place, settled in, and even like living there.

I had the same issue. Problem is they will try to steal the security deposit if you just move out.

Juristic office wrote a letter for me instewd and it got accepted, wasn't for a visa tho but other government agency.



Sent from my LYA-L29 using Tapatalk

[Raymonddiaz]

Don't pay the rent and the owner will answer your call.......it's that simple!

[Pattaya46]

19 hours ago, karl2007 said:

We have asked the owner to give us a copy of the property registration and her ID card. We told her we need it for a visa at immigration. Now, she doesn't respond to our phone calls and messages to her our unanswered. 

Hi. You don't say where in Thailand you are, but I heard of a few similar cases in Pattaya Immigration and the Officer asked tenants to bring/give them the phone number of the owner.

It seems that a direct call of an Immigration Officer to the owner makes strong effect, as for cases I know tenants get the owner's document in just a few days... 

[Mavideol]

5 minutes ago, Raymonddiaz said:

Don't pay the rent and the owner will answer your call.......it's that simple!

that's good advise,  because when it comes to their money they will want it but they also can go to the police and kick you out..... double edge knife

[dick dasterdly]

21 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

You can try giving a copy of your lease and explaining (if asked) that the condo owner lives far away and you can't get their papers. Some IOs will accept this, some won't. There may be a form to be completed by landlords,if so see if the condo office can complete it.

If this fails your options are:

1. Use an agent

2. Move

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

It was a couple (?) of years ago now when Immigration started asking for proof of address, and at the time I was told that I needed the aforementioned documents from my landlord and that he would need to accompany me to Immigration as part of the 'process'....

 

I was v worried about this at the time as my landlord lives in Bangkok (so difficult for him to come to Phuket just to accompany me to Immigration as part of the proof of address process), and I didn't know whether he would even provide the necessary copy of 'house book'/identity card etc.

 

As it turned out, my landlord was (as always) great, and provided copies of all the necessary documentation required from him.  But it was then I finally had enough of all the hassle involved in dealing with Immigration and decided to pay an agent to deal with everything on my behalf.

 

It's made my life far less stressful!

 

Yes, it's expensive and I still have to (?) provide the necessary paperwork (or perhaps I don't, but I feel more comfortable providing the necessary paperwork to prove that my retirement extension are entirely legal).

 

And before Wallander4 steps in to suggest that I'm promoting agents,  I'm not.

 

Just pointing out that they do make life a lot easier for those of us who are tired with the stress of dealing with Immigration directly, and their ever changing requirements depending on the office, and their mood!  Nowadays, my agent comes to my house to pick up my passport, documentation and take any 'photos required for both retirement extension renewals and 90 day reports.  BUT, obviously I have to pay for this service.  In my case, here on Phuket, 30,000 bht - even though I'm entirely legal.

 

Others prefer not to 'waste' that sort of money, and I understand that entirely.  We all have different priorities in life.

[yellowboat]

Landlords in other Asian  countries do this too.  I had to move to get household registration.  My landlords were of course government workers as well and did not want to pay taxes.   You can fight with them or move.   Found moving a better option.  Its annoying to say the least.

[lanng khao]

43 minutes ago, yellowboat said:

Landlords in other Asian  countries do this too.  I had to move to get household registration.  My landlords were of course government workers as well and did not want to pay taxes.   You can fight with them or move.   Found moving a better option.  Its annoying to say the least.

What if you move and have the same problem again? Becoming a bit of a nightmare this scenario, I'd rather let a agent do it. 

[jacko45k]

9 minutes ago, lanng khao said:

What if you move and have the same problem again? Becoming a bit of a nightmare this scenario, I'd rather let a agent do it. 

I suppose before you sign a lease/ rental agreement you have to ensure TM30 responsibility is defined, perhaps even written in. Some condos the rental office takes care of all that. 

Edited January 24, 2019 by jacko45k

[whitefarang]

go to a lawyer , a good one , make her !