Owner of our condo we rent to refuses to give up a copy of the property registration and ID card

[ubonjoe]

1 hour ago, lanng khao said:

What if you move and have the same problem again?

You make that a stipulation in the renal agreement to insure you don't have a problem and get the signed copies when it is signed.

[Sheryl]

What if you move and have the same problem again? Becoming a bit of a nightmare this scenario, I'd rather let a agent do it. 

Make it a condition of the rental and get the necessary paperwork before you sign.

Agents, aside from their cost, are not an option in all locations. Only places with large numbers of farangs. Many upcountry provinces without one to be found.

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[lanng khao]

Make it a condition of the rental and get the necessary paperwork before you sign.

Agents, aside from their cost, are not an option in all locations. Only places with large numbers of farangs. Many upcountry provinces without one to be found.

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No doubt they would agree to anything to get you to sign the rental papers, then go on the missing list when the time comes,ive got to travel in to Pattaya from korat next week to get a agent to open a bank account and do a extension of stay for me, so youre right about a lot of people not having local access to agents.

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[Caldera]

11 minutes ago, lanng khao said:

No doubt they would agree to anything to get you to sign the rental papers, then go on the missing list when the time comes

When I moved into the condo I'm currently renting, the owner and myself filled in the TM30 paperwork and gave all the required papers to the condo office to file it. If that hadn't been taken care of, one way or another, I simply wouldn't have signed and paid the deposit. It's not something you should allow them to postpone, it can and should be done when the contract is signed. I agree that you would have very little leverage later on.

[lanng khao]

When I moved into the condo I'm currently renting, the owner and myself filled in the TM30 paperwork and gave all the required papers to the condo office to file it. If that hadn't been taken care of, one way or another, I simply wouldn't have signed and paid the deposit. It's not something you should allow them to postpone, it can and should be done when the contract is signed. I agree that you would have very little leverage later on.

True, its just that of you leave the country for a little jaunt and then come back, you only have 24 hrs to report again, feel they could of at least made that a week, give you time to get your bearings, and what if you landlord is out the country or cant be contacted.
Its not one of the best rules they have come up with.

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[JackThompson]

9 hours ago, ukrules said:

One way to force them to speak to you is to stop paying.

 

What did you do last year ? You've lived there for 2 years right ?

Immigration didn't use to use this method for blocking non-agent applications.  It's a new underhanded trick.
 

9 hours ago, George36 said:

Would the quickest and less costly way be for him to pay an agent to get it done?  Maybe, 20,000 Baht more or less?  Much cheaper than moving and the visa issue would be solved.  Just my humble opinion.  Thanks.

Certainly what immigration are hoping will happen.  I cannot blame those who must crawl into the sewer, and traffic with slime, if that's what it takes to keep their family intact.  I may be forced to do likewise, some day - but am trying every other option first.

 

8 hours ago, keithet said:

I just had this problem. They are more concerned with the address and landlord's info than my wife's and my marrage. 

The first thing to realize, is that some IOs (not "all") don't care one bit about whether your application is "legit" or not.  Honest service in protection of the country is not why bad-apples take (or buy) their job.

 

8 hours ago, keithet said:

Pretty soon they will just micro chip us or put ankel tracking bracelet. 

Maybe, but only with the provision that this can be "waived" at the IO's "discretion."

 

4 hours ago, ThomasThBKK said:

Juristic office wrote a letter for me instewd and it got accepted, wasn't for a visa tho but other government agency.

My juristic person was as helpful as possible, and supplied everything imaginable - but the IO(s) seemed to want something else, other than 100% assurance I lived with my wife exactly where I said I did.  I cannot imagine what that might be ????.

 

7 hours ago, realenglish1 said:

She is worried about her Taxes She is not declaring the income she is getting from the Property, not the IMO

Landlord's tax-obligations are not related to a foreigner married to a Thai, applying for an extension of stay based on that relationship being de-jure and de-facto.  Immigration's job is to confirm those two conditions are met, plus (if the foreigner is male) financial qualification.  Use of the applicant as some sort of "lead" to research brown-envelope opportunities from landlords is not a legitimate part of the process.

 

The "TM-30" process is tangentially related, in that the Tax office could use those records to research tax compliance by landlords.  But, in my case, I had a valid and recently-updated TM-30, but was blocked for my extension of stay at the family-desk, based on an ever-changing list of landlord-docs, which ended with "Have the landlord go to the amphur and get a newer copy of the house-book for your condo."  As the landlord (wealthy Thai owning dozens of condos all over) lived in Bangkok and Europe - and immigration-staff knew this - they were certain my wife and I could never overcome that hurdle.  Check-Mate - "Now go to an Agent or ..." (imagine a colorful phrase here).

[JackThompson]

As to agents ...

 

4 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

In my case, here on Phuket, 30,000 bht - even though I'm entirely legal.

Yes, the IOs at Phuket demand a high cut, it seems.  Possibly due to lower volume than Jomtien, where such services are advertised at a much lower rate.  I met a guy who said he used to live in Phuket, and had moved to Jomtien as a direct-result of immigration down there.

 

Be sure and keep a copy of everything you submit, so they can never come back later and question your valid-stays, in case some criminal uses that agent and later does something which draws negative attention to their operations.  Chances are, the authorities would keep the agent-aspect out of the press, to protect the revenue-stream - but one can never know for sure.

 

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

Many upcountry provinces without one to be found.

Yes, hence the "mail-in" option may Pattaya-area agents advertise.  How that can possibly be legal with the 90-day reports, I have no idea.  I suppose the agent-payoff covers "no verification" on the 90-day reports, as well as skipping the financials, home-visits, landlord-docs, etc. 

 

I understand it's "just how things are" here - but the whole agent-thing seems scary to me, coming from a culture where only hardened-criminals engage in such activity.

Edited January 24, 2019 by JackThompson

[Maestro]

9 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Make it a condition of the rental and get the necessary paperwork before you sign.

Agents, aside from their cost, are not an option in all locations. Only places with large numbers of farangs. Many upcountry provinces without one to be found.

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I suspect that immigration offices in areas where there are no agents make no illegal requests for documents.

[Sheryl]

Possibly true. The Imm office where I am -- which has no agents -- goes pretty much by the book.

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[Fex Bluse]

On 1/24/2019 at 12:13 PM, yellowboat said:

Landlords in other Asian  countries do this too.  I had to move to get household registration.  My landlords were of course government workers as well and did not want to pay taxes.   You can fight with them or move.   Found moving a better option.  Its annoying to say the least.

And, this highlights a far deeper problem with Thais. 

 

In theory, if Immigration has imposed a requirement on Thai landlords, then, as a foreign renter, we should be able to have Immigration (who are Thai Police) reprimand the Thai landlords. However, in practice, as Thai will always side with other Thai, even when they are clearly breaking the laws, we Farang are ALWAYS made to pay for Thai mistakes and our own.

 

This part of what makes Thai culture so disgusting.