Jump to content

My trip to Jomtien Immigration


Recommended Posts

13 minutes ago, Lovethailandelite said:

The major cost factor and increasing year on year is the FX rates for those not working here. Yes, I agree that the cost of living in Thailand has not risen greatly in itself but things are getting more and more expensive.
If the next 5 year FX forecasts come anywhere near forecast, it is looking likely to not be that far out with the issues these country's have coming, with the US dollar forcast at 28, the AUS Dollar at 19 and sterling around 34, Visas I would suggest, would be the least of peoples problems. 
 

Quite true- I have read similar forecasts on exchange rates that match what you have stated.  If these exchange rate predictions hold up- that is an automatic raise in the cost of living for expats dependent upon their foreign currency to live . Then add even a modest normal cost of living increase with rising prices and those living on the margin will not be able to survive and those considering Thailand as a retirement home for the future will not come.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

Quite true- I have read similar forecasts on exchange rates that match what you have stated.  If these exchange rate predictions hold up- that is an automatic raise in the cost of living for expats dependent upon their foreign currency to live . Then add even a modest normal cost of living increase with rising prices and those living on the margin will not be able to survive and those considering Thailand as a retirement home for the future will not come.

UK expats alone with no Thai derived income have had to endure a plus 20% increase in there cost of living in the last 2 years. I am not complaining. It is what it is and nothing any of us can do about it unless your some kind of stock market or currency trading Guru and can edge yourself on it. The very best UK state pension on it's own is now around 27,000 per month. That in itself falls way short of any immigration long term stay requirement.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

The BE didn't 'verify' them, they can't, so who verified them?

It's semantics around the word "verify". They verified your income by perusing official documents that clearly showed your annual income. What they didn't do is verify the documents. I personally don't believe that TI required then to do anything other than that.

 

I don't think that this system was open to abuse, a lot easier to pay an agent 15k baht than try to forge official documents. I've never heard of one Brit who has tried to do this.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, JackThompson said:

Those symptoms are more "cover" than "cause."  It's all about the money.

 

Often, they use the "blame your fellow farangs" angle - repeated here by their apologists (Stockholm Syndrome, paid, or who knows).  It is usually a variation on: "We tightened-up the requirements to stop-fraud."
... for which the real-world translation is: "Generate more payoff agent-applications, which are completely fraudulent."
 

It's not unique to immigration - can be any "foreigner" related activity.  The same angle is used at many amphoes, to block marriage applications, as I found out first hand a couple years ago.  Use an agent and, suddenly, your relationship is genuine, after all. 

and there you have it.  All the economic activity, growth and supposed efficiency in the World does not help a country develop into a true powerhouse of progress, while corruption is an accepted way of life. Singapore shows what can be done in Asia,  the corruption here shows why it isn't happening in Thailand. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Yes they can, but if you wish to get an extension based on income, can you take the chance of a few transfers not showing up as International?

I just did a SWIFT transfer of money from my Australian bank. As the exchange rate was nearly the same as K-Bank's TT rate, I decided to send THB instead of AUD. It shows up on my K-Bank statement as "Domestic Money Transfer".

 

I'd say, because I sent THB it went to K-Bank via a corresponding bank in Thailand, therefore showing up as a domestic transfer.

 

However, if Jomtien Immigration refuses to accept monthly bank deposits as proof of income, then this is all just a waste of time. 

Edited by tropo
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Puchaiyank said:

Can you explain what is indecent about living in Thailand?  Scratching my head here.

There's a certain stigma about retiring in Thailand that you're never going to shake. 

  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, tropo said:

However, if Jomtien Immigration refuses to accept monthly bank deposits as proof of income, then this is all just a waste of time. 

I expect if they are clearly labelled as from overseas. and there are 12 of them, over 65,000 baht, that they will. If they appear as domestic, we have no idea if they will wish to review other paperwork that is presented to prove the money did actually come from overseas.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Lovethailandelite said:

The major cost factor and increasing year on year is the FX rates for those not working here. Yes, I agree that the cost of living in Thailand has not risen greatly in itself but things are getting more and more expensive.
 

1

The cost of living in Thailand is rising plenty. Inflation has been, approximately, on average, 2.5% per year. In real terms that means that 800k back in 2006 when I arrived would have the equivalent of 1.06 million baht today. Irrespective of exchange rates, that's a 32.5% increase in the cost of living. Assuming one spends 800k per year, you'd need 1.06 million baht in today's money to live just as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Thaidream said:

Quite true- I have read similar forecasts on exchange rates that match what you have stated.  If these exchange rate predictions hold up- that is an automatic raise in the cost of living for expats dependent upon their foreign currency to live . Then add even a modest normal cost of living increase with rising prices and those living on the margin will not be able to survive and those considering Thailand as a retirement home for the future will not come.

I suppose the question is - compared to what?  If I compare to my passport-country, overhead costs would still be a fraction of there - for a remotely similar quality of life - at 20 Baht / dollar.  

 

But I do feel for those on a fixed-amount who became accustomed to living at one level, and now may have to adjust to a more frugal lifestyle, now - due to forces completely outside of their control.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On ‎1‎/‎25‎/‎2019 at 8:35 AM, Spidey said:

It's highly likely that TI have assumed that people requiring an extension via the income method have had the sense to obtain their embassy letters in advance of them being ceased, thus giving everyone the option of using an embassy letter for proof of income up to late June.

 

Therefore TI won't see the urgency of rolling out the new procedure (65k baht going into a Thai bank account every month from a foreign source), as everyone should still be using embassy letters.

 

It begs the question, why didn't the OP obtain his embassy letter in advance of the cut off date?

My extension not due until Nov. I was just trying to get the facts from the horses mouth instead I got it from the bulls arse

  • Haha 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On ‎1‎/‎25‎/‎2019 at 8:43 AM, Puchaiyank said:

The 800k baht has been a requirement for retirement visas for years...the embassy income letters have been exposed as a farce...put the money in a Thai bank and move on...or just move.

Read article 2.22 before you put finger to keyboard

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On ‎1‎/‎25‎/‎2019 at 11:37 AM, divali said:

Man man man… Nobody seems to give the correct answer here! Everybody seems to forget one thing: If you want to use the combined method, you still will need from the embassy an affidavit confirming the part that you use as income part. If your embassy does not provide that anymore, of course you cannot use that method anymore, so for retirement extension you will need 800000THB in the bank or proof that you bring 65000THB every month in a Thai bankaccount, as stated in the new regulations! However, I read nowhere what if you have a part of the 800000THB deposited in the bank and bring a part every month in a Thai bankaccount to match requirements which also would make sens to me... For the embassies that still provide the affidavit, nothing has changed!

And for the Embassies that don't hand out affidavits anymore still nothing has changed Article 2.22 Item 1-5 of Police order 327/2557

Link to comment
Share on other sites

47 minutes ago, a977 said:

My extension not due until Nov. I was just trying to get the facts from the horses mouth instead I got it from the bulls arse

I suggest that you put 65k baht (or part thereof) in a Thai bank account and ensure that it's shown as "international transfer". Do this every month and I'm sure that you won't have a problem come November.

 

It's still January and most people are still using embassy letters, the new regs haven't been rolled out to all the IO's yet. I expect that Jontien IO will be fully up to speed with the new regs by May/June and will be better able to answer your questions then.

 

Don't blame me that you didn't make it clear, in your OP, that your extension isn't due for another 11 months.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On ‎1‎/‎25‎/‎2019 at 6:38 PM, Jingthing said:

Yes it is very important to many. Referring to written rules is one thing but actual enforcement practices all over Thailand is another. Yes the combo method without embassy letter appears at this time to be the most potentially problematical of all the methods.

Regarding the leniency memo that is only about not requiring the full monthly deposits for income method no embassy letter the first year because it's a new thing. Combo method is not explicitly mentioned in any of the recent methods covering income method no embassy letter. UJ is confident that it will stand with no embassy letter. I am less certain. In any case of course with a combo method no embassy letter you would need monthly transfers in a similar way as for the full 65k income method but for combo no embassy letter amounts less 65k would be accepted. Combo method with embassy income letter stands as before with no required imports at all.
Why do I repeat this stuff as I do?
Because people are understandably getting confused as there is a very new situation now for income and combo applications without embassy letters.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

It's not the people  getting confused it's  the Immigration department getting confused and not being able to understand a Police Order. As I've already stated they do not understand the difference between a Memorandum and a Police Order that has been in effect since 2014 and to my knowledge has not been rescinded 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, a977 said:

It's not the people  getting confused it's  the Immigration department getting confused and not being able to understand a Police Order. As I've already stated they do not understand the difference between a Memorandum and a Police Order that has been in effect since 2014 and to my knowledge has not been rescinded 

The memorandum is a supplement to the police order. It rescinds noting in the 2014 police order, which stands as written. It just adds to it.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, Spidey said:

The memorandum is a supplement to the police order. It rescinds noting in the 2014 police order, which stands as written. It just adds to it.

Thank you, that is what I have been trying to get across to Immigration. The main thing the memorandum states is the verification of income.  This verification should be all that is required for the combo method + money in bank

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you, that is what I have been trying to get across to Immigration. The main thing the memorandum states is the verification of income.  This verification should be all that is required for the combo method + money in bank
But unfortunately details or even a mention of the combo method done without an embassy letter is not mentioned in any of the memos. So it's no surprise at all that there are already reports of officers saying no can do. I can't predict the future of that but I wouldn't be comfortable at this point expecting a combo method no embassy letter application to actually work. Being valid in theory according to extrapolation of the rules is not the same thing as actual enforcement realities. Only the latter really matters. No fun being rejected but knowing they were wrong in doing so. More clarity is sorely needed but I wouldn't be expecting that anytime soon.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On ‎1‎/‎26‎/‎2019 at 4:05 PM, Spidey said:

It's semantics around the word "verify". They verified your income by perusing official documents that clearly showed your annual income. What they didn't do is verify the documents. I personally don't believe that TI required then to do anything other than that.

'Verify' and 'certify' have totally different legal meanings. It's not semantics.

If you asked a solicitor to certify a document, he couldn't without first authenticating the document (verifying).

He could take a copy of the original and certify the copy. A certified copy of the original.

 

At extension time you submit copies of documents, which must be 'certified'.

By signing the copies, you are 'self certifying' that it's an original copy, not that the original was genuine.

It's quite clear from the statements from the US and UK Embassies that the request from TI was to 'verify' the income, but I believe what they actually meant was a 'certified' letter.

The BE was already doing that, they had no reason to withdraw the income letters had that been the request.

I don't believe they misinterpreted TI's request though either.

US and Aus would have had to drop the 'stat decs' and 'affidavits' and asked their citizens to provide documentary proof of incomes as almost all the other Embassies do, then issue a letter certified by the Embassy.

 

It's been a proverbial cockup, but the damage is done now.

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Spidey

The UK and US Embassies were also correct that using incomes transferred into a Thai bank had always been an alternative method. It just appears that was never written into TI's procedures, which they have now been forced to correct.

 

For a minority who have always transferred their incomes and meet the financial requirements, getting statements and a letter from their local bank, as opposed to trips to Bangkok and Embassy fees, will save them time and money.

I'm surprised no one has posted about the positive advantage to some.

UJ will be one such person to benefit from the amendment.

Edited by Tanoshi
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Tanoshi said:

@Spidey

The UK and US Embassies were also correct that using incomes transferred into a Thai bank had always been an alternative method. It just appears that was never written into TI's procedures, which they have now been forced to correct.

 

For a minority who have always transferred their incomes and meet the financial requirements, getting statements and a letter from their local bank, as opposed to trips and Embassy fees, will save them time and money.

I'm surprised no one has posted about the positive advantage to some.

UJ will be one such person to benefit from the amendment.

AFAIAA No one ever used the "alternative method", I don't believe that it was available as far as TI were concerned.

 

Financially it's a net disadvantage to me. Used to cost me nothing to transfer my money from the UK to Thailand. £52 (2k baht) for an annual embassy letter. After doing my first SWIFT transfer this month, I calculated that the new method will cost me i.r.o. an extra 12k baht per annum.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

// It's quite clear from the statements from the US and UK Embassies that the request from TI was to 'verify' the income, but I believe what they actually meant was a 'certified' letter.

// I don't believe they misinterpreted TI's request though either.

The question remains: Why now, while this "verify" request is nothing new?

 

1 hour ago, Tanoshi said:

// I'm surprised no one has posted about the positive advantage to some.

You may have missed them, but several posts already of people happy with this new option of extension. Mainly people who live very far from Bangkok and will not need anymore a long trip to their embassy.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

re Britisah Embassy, yes i sent all my bank statement for the previous few months, 5 pensions in total, all highlighted, yep some pen pusher  glances at it, types a letter, *yes, this is this persons income* that will be 52 UK POUNDS please. that a lot of 52 pounds they have lost.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

Verify' and 'certify' have totally different legal meanings

Back from the Austrian Consulate. This is what is written on my L. o. I. :

 

" To The Royal Thai Immigration. 

 

We hereby confirm that Mr. LuckyLuke, Belgium Citizen Passport No. TV999999

Upon request of the above mentioned citizen and on basis of the documents shown to the Consulate, it is hereby certified that Mr. LuckyLuke receiving a monthly pension of EUR xxxx.xx equivalent to approximately Thb xxxxx. 

Kind regards. 

Sriwanna Jitpraset

Honorary Vice Consul  "

 

Tomorrow I go to Jomtien Immigration. 

  • Thanks 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

56 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

We hereby confirm that Mr. LuckyLuke, Belgium Citizen Passport No. TV999999

Upon request of the above mentioned citizen and on basis of the documents shown to the Consulate, it is hereby certified that Mr. LuckyLuke receiving a monthly pension of EUR xxxx.xx equivalent to approximately Thb xxxxx. 

Typically wording to that of other nationality Embassy letters I've seen.

The key word being 'certified' as per Immigrations printed orders.

 

39 minutes ago, mercman24 said:

post 177, yes as much the same  as the UK EMBASSY LETTER, of which is no more, post how you get on,

The BE never stated 'certified'.

I'm sure if they had been asked to 'certify' their letter on the basis of documentary evidence submitted, they would have done so. It was the choice of word 'verify' from the Thai authorities that confused the request.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.





×
×
  • Create New...