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My trip to Jomtien Immigration


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4 hours ago, Spidey said:

AFAIAA No one ever used the "alternative method", I don't believe that it was available as far as TI were concerned.

Agreed, but the original order only stated proof of income, there was no mention of what constituted proof, but the Embassy letters were the accepted norm.

 

4 hours ago, Spidey said:

Financially it's a net disadvantage to me. Used to cost me nothing to transfer my money from the UK to Thailand. £52 (2k baht) for an annual embassy letter. After doing my first SWIFT transfer this month, I calculated that the new method will cost me i.r.o. an extra 12k baht per annum.

I'm guessing the majority using the income method will be at a financial disadvantage, unless you arrange for your pension provider to pay directly into your Thai bank account, as opposed to your UK account.

Both the government and private pension companies can arrange this with no transaction fee to yourself.

 

This method won't suit everyone though for a number of personal reasons.

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30 minutes ago, phutoie2 said:

Maybe if they had used the words 'certify or verify' we Brits would be OK. My last BE income letter uses the words 'stated and stating'

If they had worded the letter as 'certified', (verified would have been a blatant lie), which they could have done, then your probably correct.

The surrounding confusion came from the negotiations and TI's use of the word 'verify'.

 

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4 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

Agreed, but the original order only stated proof of income, there was no mention of what constituted proof, but the Embassy letters were the accepted norm.

 

I'm guessing the majority using the income method will be at a financial disadvantage, unless you arrange for your pension provider to pay directly into your Thai bank account, as opposed to your UK account.

Both the government and private pension companies can arrange this with no transaction fee to yourself.

 

This method won't suit everyone though for a number of personal reasons.

 

Although pensions are sent directly by the provider with no sending fees, I assume you are still only getting the receiving bank TT rate, and have a receiving fee deducted.  Sending it yourself via Transferwise is likely to be better overall, (assuming of course it can be ensured to arrive as INTL).

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44 minutes ago, steve73 said:

 

Although pensions are sent directly by the provider with no sending fees, I assume you are still only getting the receiving bank TT rate, and have a receiving fee deducted.  Sending it yourself via Transferwise is likely to be better overall, (assuming of course it can be ensured to arrive as INTL).

My pension provider won't send directly to a foreign bank. Also it's in excess of what I need every month and I have some financial commitments in my own country. A complete non starter for me.

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2 minutes ago, Spidey said:

My pension provider won't send directly to a foreign bank. Also it's in excess of what I need every month and I have some financial commitments in my own country. A complete non starter for me.

 

Apologies if this has already been covered - and it may not suit your circumstances - but I have 2 friends who had the same issue (with JCB). They arranged for JCB to pay the pension to a Borderless account with Transferwise.

 

In theory they can supply evidence matching their pension income to the TW transfers (and receipts with their Thai banks) that should enable the Thai bank to issue the 'verification letter'.

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1 minute ago, LucysDad said:

 

Apologies if this has already been covered - and it may not suit your circumstances - but I have 2 friends who had the same issue (with JCB). They arranged for JCB to pay the pension to a Borderless account with TransferWise.

 

In theory they can supply evidence matching their pension income to the TW transfers (and receipts with their Thai banks) that should enable the Thai bank to issue the 'verification letter'.

It doesn't get round the fact that I don't want all of my pension sending to Thailand. Also, I believe that TransferWise receipts don't show up as international transfers for most banks. OK for me as I'm with Bangkok bank, where they do register as international transfers.

 

I don't think that Thai banks will accept any evidence from another source, too complicated for them. They will have a formula for issuing the letters, it will be simple and non variable.

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On 1/26/2019 at 7:11 AM, Tanoshi said:

They don't and can't 'verify' incomes, they continue to 'certify'' the letter and continue to use that wording.

 

Plus the British embassy income letter included a significant disclaimer that basically said that in itself,  the letter was not a legal document in any jurisdiction and anyone seeking to verify the statements made within need to find another mechanism to satisfy that requirement. The disclaimer has been on these income letters for as long as I can remember. I am not sure if the American sworn affidavit, Australian statutory declaration of Danish embassy letter had similar, disqualifying legalese.

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5 minutes ago, Spidey said:

It doesn't get round the fact that I don't want all of my pension sending to Thailand. Also, I believe that TransferWise receipts don't show up as international transfers for most banks. OK for me as I'm with Bangkok bank, where they do register as international transfers.

 

I don't think that Thai banks will accept any evidence from another source, too complicated for them. They will have a formula for issuing the letters, it will be simple and non variable.

 

 

1. You don't have to send it all to Thailand..... there may be a cost to sending Sterling to Sterling.

 

2. As skeptical as I usually am, I actually think that the banks are more capable of thinking outside the baox than Thai immigration.... I had an example of that a coupled a years ago when I was using a Sterling FCD to evidence 800k....... time will tell.

 

 

It may not suit your circumstances but there may be others in a similar situation and I suggest it is better to remit via TW than from your personal bank account. Thed TW transfers can be isolated and evidenced and MAY be accepted by your Thai bank.

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4 hours ago, LucysDad said:

 

Apologies if this has already been covered - and it may not suit your circumstances - but I have 2 friends who had the same issue (with JCB). They arranged for JCB to pay the pension to a Borderless account with Transferwise.

 

In theory they can supply evidence matching their pension income to the TW transfers (and receipts with their Thai banks) that should enable the Thai bank to issue the 'verification letter'.

The letter issued by the Thai bank only confirms that your bank account is valid. It's your bank statements/bank book that shows the twelve monthly transfers and the source of those transfers, not the letter.

 

Quote

The OP only got a letter confirming his account is valid. His bank statements proved his income was being transferred in for 12 months.

 

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We may be taking the wording 'transfer from overseas' to literally.

 

A friend who renewed his extension based on marriage this month with no Embassy letter, just a letter and 12 months bank statements from Kasikorn, was obviously concerned about the coding.

Immigration stated they were only checking the min monthly deposits met the requirements and not really concerned with the coding. If your obviously not working in Thailand, then the funds must have come from an overseas source.

His pensions have always been paid directly into his Thai bank account.

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7 hours ago, sumrit said:

The letter issued by the Thai bank only confirms that your bank account is valid. It's your bank statements/bank book that shows the twelve monthly transfers and the source of those transfers, not the letter.

 

 

 

 

You are confused.

 

 

I am not talking about the balance letter -  I am talking about the 'verification' letter from the bank that immigration will require to evidence INCOME.

 

Immigration will not/cannot analyse bank statements - they will rely on the bank for that.

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1 minute ago, LucysDad said:

 

 

You are confused.

 

 

I am not talking about the balance letter -  I am talking about the 'verification' letter from the bank that immigration will require to evidence INCOME.

 

Immigration will not/cannot analyse bank statements - they will rely on the bank for that.

Well I guess nobody has seen one yet but for those of us who use 800k on deposit, the letter doesn't do much more than confirm that I have this account and the balance on that day. Immigration do indeed use my bankbook and copies, to check I have fulfilled the 3 month 'seasoning' requirement. 

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10 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Well I guess nobody has seen one yet but for those of us who use 800k on deposit, the letter doesn't do much more than confirm that I have this account and the balance on that day. Immigration do indeed use my bankbook and copies, to check I have fulfilled the 3 month 'seasoning' requirement. 

 

 

Yep, and that is perfectly adequate for the money in the bank option.

 

The income letter from the bank will be somewhat different and I am looking forward to them making sense of the receipts passing through my account.

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8 minutes ago, LucysDad said:

I am not talking about the balance letter -  I am talking about the 'verification' letter from the bank that immigration will require to evidence INCOME.

The one I saw from Kasikorn did not evidence monthly income, it merely stated the balance as of that date.

Immigration just perused through a few of the bank statements.

 

Transferring direct from my UK bank, or through Transferwise, my account always defines the transaction as FTT.

FTT is not code listed in the passbook.

It appears Immigration and the Thai banks are on different pages.

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15 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

The one I saw from Kasikorn did not evidence monthly income, it merely stated the balance as of that date.

Immigration just perused through a few of the bank statements.

 

Transferring direct from my UK bank, or through Transferwise, my account always defines the transaction as FTT.

FTT is not code listed in the passbook.

It appears Immigration and the Thai banks are on different pages.

 

 

I am not aware that the new system is underway yet. I guess that there may be new 'income method' applicants but most will already have their embassy letter. Those long-term expats applying after June will be the test cases for the 'new' bank letter.

 

The passbook is an irrelevance for the income method - or at least my Kasikorn book is because is simply consolidates bulk transactions when updating. 

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I am not aware that the new system is underway yet. I guess that there may be new 'income method' applicants but most will already have their embassy letter. Those long-term expats applying after June will be the test cases for the 'new' bank letter.
 
The passbook is an irrelevance for the income method - or at least my Kasikorn book is because is simply consolidates bulk transactions when updating. 
Then you need to order detailed statements from kbank customer service. It seems to me you are engaging in wishful thinking imagining there is going to be a special format bank letter for income method applications. I seriously doubt that.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

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1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

Then you need to order detailed statements from kbank customer service. It seems to me you are engaging in wishful thinking imagining there is going to be a special format bank letter for income method applications. I seriously doubt that.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

 

That is what immigration have said if you read the specific immigration threads. 

 

You seriously think IO's are capable/inclined to analysed a bank statement - now THAT would be wishful thinking.

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1 minute ago, LucysDad said:

I am not aware that the new system is underway yet. I guess that there may be new 'income method' applicants but most will already have their embassy letter. Those long-term expats applying after June will be the test cases for the 'new' bank letter.

The amended order is already in effect.

If you don't have an Embassy letter, then a letter from your bank and bank statements are required, even between now and July.

 

7 minutes ago, LucysDad said:

The passbook is an irrelevance for the income method - or at least my Kasikorn book is because is simply consolidates bulk transactions when updating. 

Passbook or statements are acceptable.

If you don't update your passbook after every transaction then obviously it will consolidate transactions.

 

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1 minute ago, Tanoshi said:

 

 

Passbook or statements are acceptable.

If you don't update your passbook after every transaction then obviously it will consolidate transactions.

 

 

 

I disagree that a passbook is acceptable for the income method.

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9 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Then you need to order detailed statements from kbank customer service. It seems to me you are engaging in wishful thinking imagining there is going to be a special format bank letter for income method applications. I seriously doubt that.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

 

Seems quite clear to me.

 

2.18 In the case of family member (mother, father, male or female spouse, child, adopted child or child of spouse) with Thai nationality. Can be authorized for not more than 1 year.



Process



Evidence of annual income that equates to no less than B40,000 per month of alien father, mother or spouse such as.



1. Tax receipts of the supporting relative. (Presumably Thai tax receipts for a foreigner working in Thailand supporting foreign spouse, parent or child, e.g. you have a Thai wife and support your mother or non-Thai child from a previous marriage living in Thailand).



2. Evidence of a pension. Letter of certification from a Thai bank supported by bank statements showing a pension being transferred to the pensioner’s bank account every month for at least 12 months. Exceptions are allowed for those who have been retired for less than one year – example given.



3. Evidence of income from a foreign embassy or consulate.



2.22



For retirement extensions of no more than 1 year evidence of average monthly income of B65,000 is required.



1. Evidence of pension. Same as 2 above,

2. Evidence of income from a foreign embassy or consulate.

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2 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

It is to early to say what immigration office will want for the applications or what kind of letter a bank will be willing to provide.

I see no reason why copies of a bank book would not be accepted. They are accepted for the money in the bank option.

 

 

Only because they show a closing balance that evidences the minimum 400/800k requirement - and that ties up with the bank confirmation letter.

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6 minutes ago, LucysDad said:

2. Evidence of a pension. Letter of certification from a Thai bank supported by bank statements showing a pension being transferred to the pensioner’s bank account every month for at least 12 months. Exceptions are allowed for those who have been retired for less than one year – example given.
 

The letter used for the money in the bank option is also a called a certification letter so nothing different for the new income option.

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Just now, LucysDad said:

 

 

Why ?

 

I have no need to.

 

I have around 50 transactions a month and I have no intention of driving 60 km after each one to update a passbook.

I did not say after every transaction, just more often. But of course, if you do not want to do that, forget your extension.

And by the way, my nearest bank to update my book is in Tesco Lotus which is 66 km round trip.

 

You could download monthly statements via internet banking, which show FTT transfers etc.

 

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Just now, wgdanson said:

 

You could download monthly statements via internet banking, which show FTT transfers etc.

 

 

 

My extension is not at risk.

 

I download statements already. However, they are likely to be useless as my IO previously would not accept them (as a back up to a Sterling FCD deposit where the local branch could update the FCD bank book, but supplied a covering letter).

 

Anyone downloading should be aware that many banks only go back 6 months.

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