CRF250 specialist wanted.

[AllanB]

Finally got a chance to compare my 2018 CRF 250 with another bike.

 

Took the bike to a local Honda dealership to have a chat with yet another mechanic and like all the others they had nothing to say. While I was there I saw a oldish CBR250 in for service, so I asked if I could ride it. I easily pulled away on little over tickover without any problem and it was smooth from there up to around 4500rpm, a rev range my CRF hates.

 

So there is an issue with the engine and I need someone to look at it. I am in KhonKaen where no one is interested, the small bike dealers know nothing and yesterday I went to Honda Big Wing and they say they won't touch bikes under 500cc. The reason I went in there was that I saw they were selling the CRF250, so I said, "you sell the CRF250R" to which they replied it is an imported bike, so another dead loss.

 

I can put the bike on the back of my truck and head to another town, anyone have any ideas of who could look at it and fix it?

 

Cheers

[thaiguzzi]

20 minutes ago, AllanB said:

Finally got a chance to compare my 2018 CRF 250 with another bike.

 

20 minutes ago, AllanB said:

a oldish CBR250 in

Sorry Allan,

 you need to compare your bike with another STOCK 2017-18 CRF250L, not an older CBR250.

Apples & oranges and all that.

Let alone frames, forks, s/arm lengths, engine mounts, balance factors, throttle body sizes, cams, internal & external gearing, ergonomics, wheel & tyre sizes, and a hundred other things.

 

[taninthai]

How do you know its a problem with the engine and not the clutch?

[thaiguzzi]

1 hour ago, taninthai said:

How do you know its a problem with the engine and not the clutch?

Or an engine mount not torqued to spec?

Or nothing wrong until he tries an IDENTICAL model CRF.

5 hours ago, AllanB said:

oldish CBR250

I also forgot to mention in comparing or incomparable

# nearly new CRF

# "oldish" CBR

thousands of kms difference in mileage, a run in loose motor and a tight new motor.

Amongst a hundred different things.

As i said, apples & oranges cannot be compared.

[Kwasaki]

Don't understand OP my 2018/2019 upgrade CRF250L is fine it's 250 single cylinder ohv Honda engine not a CBR1000.

[taninthai]

21 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Don't understand OP my 2018/2019 upgrade CRF250L is fine it's 250 single cylinder ohv Honda engine not a CBR1000.

Exactly even my Cbr600rr in the U.K. can be a bit sluggish of the mark if you let the revs drop to low.

i don’t know what op was expecting from this bike but it sounds like there is nothing wrong with his bike ,op seems obsessed with the Rev counter and torque.

[ktm jeff]

The engines in the CRF and CBR are very similar. They should feel the same. More vibration from the CRF dual-sport tires and softer suspension are the main riding differences. OP has experience of many different bike styles. Honda is 250cc , 4 valve liquid cooled , fuel injected DOHC. OP says it requires more revs / clutch slip to pull away , and is rough / vibrates up to 5,000 RPM. This is compared to a 200cc , air cooled 2 valve carb overhead valve Lifan. Honda quality might be below par nowadays , but to say the Lifan is better in some ways !!!. I still think there is a problem with this specific bike / engine. Valve clearances , valve timing or a spun bearing. Needs checking by a competent mechanic.

[AllanB]

On 1/25/2019 at 5:19 PM, thaiguzzi said:

Or an engine mount not torqued to spec?

Or nothing wrong until he tries an IDENTICAL model CRF.

I also forgot to mention in comparing or incomparable

# nearly new CRF

# "oldish" CBR

thousands of kms difference in mileage, a run in loose motor and a tight new motor.

Amongst a hundred different things.

As i said, apples & oranges cannot be compared.

 

On 1/25/2019 at 5:19 PM, thaiguzzi said:

Or an engine mount not torqued to spec?

Or nothing wrong until he tries an IDENTICAL model CRF.

I also forgot to mention in comparing or incomparable

# nearly new CRF

# "oldish" CBR

thousands of kms difference in mileage, a run in loose motor and a tight new motor.

Amongst a hundred different things.

As i said, apples & oranges cannot be compared.

I hear what you say, but I rode a CBR250 with similar km and age a few years back and this CBR was just the same, I owned a Lifan GY200 and that also pulled away on a little more than tickover again with a few thousand km on the clock. This engine has a fault, the engine is "rough" by any standards, it doesn't lack power at high rpm, it is just rough. Apart from a vibrating number plate, the bike is otherwise fault free, g/b, clutch all fine.

 

It could be a manufacturing fault with the engine balance, or even fuel/air mixture, if I could compare it with a similar bike I would.

 

Seems Thailand is not the place to by an inbetween bike, no one is interested at any of the Honda dealers.

 

A dyno test might help.

[AllanB]

The moral of this story to me is with the exception of a small bike, don't buy anything new in Thailand. We all know know the value of warranties in LOS, SFA, but unable to get the supplier to even look is pretty shit service. They sell these bikes here in about 10 different shops and no one has a mechanic who knows anything about them, not a bloody thing. "Have you tried 95 gasahol?"

 

At least with a secondhand bike you get to try it out.

 

[papa al]

Well, the bike is 2nd-hand now.

Endever to persevere.

[taninthai]

4 hours ago, AllanB said:

The moral of this story to me is with the exception of a small bike, don't buy anything new in Thailand. We all know know the value of warranties in LOS, SFA, but unable to get the supplier to even look is pretty shit service. They sell these bikes here in about 10 different shops and no one has a mechanic who knows anything about them, not a bloody thing. "Have you tried 95 gasahol?"

 

At least with a secondhand bike you get to try it out.

 

I thought in previous posts you mentioned the problems to several mechanics and they all said bike seems fine.

[papa al]

So the mechanics are in denial/wrong,

or Allan is.

What's needed is a competent / English-speaking CRF mechanic.

Right.?

[pbas400]

On 1/27/2019 at 4:24 AM, ktm jeff said:

More vibration from the CRF dual-sport tires and softer suspension are the main riding differences. OP has experience of many different bike styles. Honda is 250cc , 4 valve liquid cooled , fuel injected DOHC. OP says it requires more revs / clutch slip to pull away , and is rough / vibrates up to 5,000 RPM. This is compared to a 200cc , air cooled 2 valve carb overhead valve Lifan. Honda quality might be below par nowadays , but to say the Lifan is better in some ways !!!. I still think there is a problem with this specific bike / engine. Valve clearances , valve timing or a spun bearing. Needs checking by a competent mechanic.

 

i did 30.000 kilometers during 12 months on Honda Rally 2018 from south to north and Isan province.

everything is ok 100%  

changed tires every 14.000 kilometers 

Oil and oil filter every 5000 kilometers

air filter every 10.000

chain at 21.000

 

i change IRC by Mitas MC24... i really like the new silence :)

[AllanB]

Yes, a competent mechanic with some knowledge of the CRF250 and the ability to repair the fault. My beef is not with the bike, all other aspects are fine, fit and finish, g/box, wheels, tyres, electrics, it is the Thai system of "buy it and sod off"....with a smile.

 

When i first bought the bike, I thought I wouldn't have to wait long for the fault to get worst, even blow the engine, but after 3600km it hasn't, in fact it has improved slightly, helped mainly by fitting the 13t front sprocket.

 

In the year or so I have had it I have looked at other bikes to swap it for, but can't find anything that does what it does for me. It may be something as simple as fuelling, but I have zero knowledge of setting up PI systems.

 

[thaiguzzi]

1 hour ago, AllanB said:

When i first bought the bike, I thought I wouldn't have to wait long for the fault to get worst, even blow the engine, but after 3600km it hasn't, in fact it has improved slightly, helped mainly by fitting the 13t front sprocket.

How do you know that they are not all like that?

[ktm jeff]

10 hours ago, thaiguzzi said:

How do you know that they are not all like that?

Allan says his Lifan pulled from less revs , and was smoother. And was 3 times cheaper. As average as the Honda is , it should be better than this , as others will confirm. I believe this bike has a fault , rather than Allan is expecting too much. He has ridden other bikes before.

[AllanB]

19 hours ago, thaiguzzi said:

How do you know that they are not all like that?

I don't think people would buy them if they were, I certainly wouldn't. Plus I have read reviews and nothing is mentioned about the engine being crude.

 

 

 

[papa al]

 CRF250 specialist wanted.:

091 809 4138

[edgar bleikur]

udon city with a few big Honda dealerships is only an hour up the road...

 

(Not buying the verbal reasoning, I'm currently drafting an email asking where 1.2lts of fully synthetic 10W30 engine oil has disappeared to over 6 oil changes by my Honda dealer. Perfect English spoken by several staff/owners. So, sadly, can't recommend my guys here in Pathum/Bkk atm. 5...55... 2018 CB150R 1.3l sump, changing oil every 2500klms not the recommended 5000klm frequency, using them due to warranty BUT did the last one myself, due to a lack of trust, with no loss of oil..5...55...)

[VocalNeal]

7 minutes ago, edgar bleikur said:

udon city with a few big Honda dealerships is only an hour up the road...

 

(Not buying the verbal reasoning, I'm currently drafting an email asking where 1.2lts of fully synthetic 10W30 engine oil has disappeared to over 6 oil changes by my Honda dealer. Perfect English spoken by several staff/owners. So, sadly, can't recommend my guys here in Pathum/Bkk atm. 5...55... 2018 CB150R 1.3l sump, changing oil every 2500klms not the recommended 5000klm frequency, using them due to warranty BUT did the last one myself, due to a lack of trust, with no loss of oil..5...55...)

 

How do you know it disappeared? Are you saying you only got 0.85 litres and were charged for 1l? or that over the course of 6 oil changes you have had to top up with 1.2litres or 200ml between changes. So you burn 1ml every 25 kms? No signs of a drip?

 

In Thailand I don't think you will get much of a result from an email? Have you tried other forums like say Thumpertalk ?

[thaiguzzi]

1 hour ago, AllanB said:

I don't think people would buy them if they were, I certainly wouldn't. Plus I have read reviews and nothing is mentioned about the engine being crude.

 

 

 

Okey Dokey.

Prolly just wants a good thrashing!

A right good seeing to.

Now, you know i'm about 2 odd hours from you, for The Love of God, ride the thing here (not load it into the back of your pick up), and i'll have a look at it.

I just can't stand it anymore...

[edgar bleikur]

2 minutes ago, VocalNeal said:

 

How do you know it disappeared? Are you saying you only got 0.85 litres and were charged for 1l? or that over the course of 6 oil changes you have had to top up with 1.2litres or 200ml between changes. So you burn 1ml every 25 kms? No signs of a drip?

1.3lt every change in shop.

 

They give me the difference of 2 x 1lt bottles to take home etc, etc, the math adds up to 1.2lts lost over 6 oil changes.

 

Questioned them a few times, decidedly so last oil change, got a bs answer.

 

It's not using oil/leaking oil, it's never needed oil outside of changes.

 

Was going to let it go but did my own change most recently with zero loss of oil, they're charging nearly 400tb a litre (I paid 120tb a litre on this recent change) and the principle of the matter, plus i've done the right thing by them a few times with other issues we won't go into...

 

Bought new from them last march.

 

Bikes currently in for warranty replacement of thermo fan and bracket, the whole lot melted onto the radiator.

 

Currently due for 24k major service that i got them to quote me on, told them i would'nt get it done there due to a lack of trust.

 

Don't have a problem with the owners (lovely family, 10 dealerships throughout Pathum, Nonthaburi, BKK) but suggested they needed to discuss this issue further with their mechanics. 

 

Early career as an industrial engineer with trade qual as a maintenance fitter, i wouldn't lose 1.2lts of oil on a 1000lt change let alone a 7.8lt change...

[edgar bleikur]

14 minutes ago, thaiguzzi said:

Okey Dokey.

Prolly just wants a good thrashing!

A right good seeing to.

Now, you know i'm about 2 odd hours from you, for The Love of God, ride the thing here (not load it into the back of your pick up), and i'll have a look at it.

I just can't stand it anymore...

they're renown for being smooth as silk, classically so in a side by side review put up against the husky, so it sounds odd to my engineers noggin, i'd love to take a listen to it...

[papa al]

1 hour ago, edgar bleikur said:

1.3lt every change in shop.

 

They give me the difference of 2 x 1lt bottles to take home etc, etc, the math adds up to 1.2lts lost over 6 oil changes.

 

Questioned them a few times, decidedly so last oil change, got a bs answer.

 

It's not using oil/leaking oil, it's never needed oil outside of changes.

 

Was going to let it go but did my own change most recently with zero loss of oil, they're charging nearly 400tb a litre (I paid 120tb a litre on this recent change) and the principle of the matter, plus i've done the right thing by them a few times with other issues we won't go into...

 

Bought new from them last march.

 

Bikes currently in for warranty replacement of thermo fan and bracket, the whole lot melted onto the radiator.

 

Currently due for 24k major service that i got them to quote me on, told them i would'nt get it done there due to a lack of trust.

 

Don't have a problem with the owners (lovely family, 10 dealerships throughout Pathum, Nonthaburi, BKK) but suggested they needed to discuss this issue further with their mechanics. 

 

Early career as an industrial engineer with trade qual as a maintenance fitter, i wouldn't lose 1.2lts of oil on a 1000lt change let alone a 7.8lt change...

papa really cannot understand your numbers.

ceeber150 needs 1.1 l per drain & change;

(1.4 l on rebuild.)

But they are putting in 1.3?

And give you the difference from 2 l?

0.7 l ?

Where/what is the missing 0.2 l per change?

...so cornfused.????

 

[AllanB]

2 hours ago, thaiguzzi said:

Okey Dokey.

Prolly just wants a good thrashing!

A right good seeing to.

Now, you know i'm about 2 odd hours from you, for The Love of God, ride the thing here (not load it into the back of your pick up), and i'll have a look at it.

I just can't stand it anymore...

Stay Calm TG, this forum needs you.

 

I was just trying to find somone to look at it and fix/tweak it, but since that has failed I am looking to rechip it, though that terminology as probably been superceeded since I did my Fiat Multipla in 2004.

 

......oh and I do give it some welly...and it does respond.

[ktm jeff]

10 hours ago, thaiguzzi said:

Okey Dokey.

Prolly just wants a good thrashing!

A right good seeing to.

Now, you know i'm about 2 odd hours from you, for The Love of God, ride the thing here (not load it into the back of your pick up), and i'll have a look at it.

I just can't stand it anymore...

TG , you do know that this bike is one of them there "new fangled" fuel injected , liquid cooled things , dont you.  555. It needs trucking over to you , if he really wants it fixed. He wont be riding it back the same day - checking valves on a cold engine , etc. You know what else to check , cam timing etc , so go for it. You are the only mechanic , apart from one in Chiang Mai , that i would allow to touch my machines.

[VocalNeal]

17 hours ago, AllanB said:

 

I was just trying to find somone to look at it and fix/tweak it, but since that has failed I am looking to rechip it,

Thumpertalk

 

Why does it need rechiping?

 

JRmotor used to have a webpage for a O2 sensor emulator widget for Hondas. Maybe an email or better a phone call to them. 1500 baht from memory. From recollection the 250 was on their list. Maybe they still have one.

 

Failing that EJK widget from Minnesota.

[Randell]

On 2/4/2019 at 11:23 AM, thaiguzzi said:

Okey Dokey.

Prolly just wants a good thrashing!

A right good seeing to.

Now, you know i'm about 2 odd hours from you, for The Love of God, ride the thing here (not load it into the back of your pick up), and i'll have a look at it.

I just can't stand it anymore...

Or just take Thaiguzzi up on his very gracious offer, If you don't please tell us why on earth not  ok

[papa al]

On 2/4/2019 at 10:04 AM, papa al said:

 CRF250 specialist wanted.:

091 809 4138

...or call this number.

They operate numerous of them thangs

in their enduro tour business.

They know.

[edgar bleikur]

On 2/4/2019 at 1:05 PM, papa al said:

papa really cannot understand your numbers.

ceeber150 needs 1.1 l per drain & change;

(1.4 l on rebuild.)

But they are putting in 1.3?

And give you the difference from 2 l?

0.7 l ?

Where/what is the missing 0.2 l per change?

...so cornfused.????

 

2018 CB150R EXMOITION 1.3lt per drain and change. 6 drain and changes = 7.8lt... I've been charged for 9lts...