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Foreigners now need to keep 800k in Thai bank for three months AFTER retirement extension is granted


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9 hours ago, elviajero said:

It was reported last year that the British government issued YS with a 10 year visitor visa!

 

A copy of the bank book and letter are required on all files unless waived by a senior officer.

 

Maybe you could ask your ‘freind’ to show you a completed file. Inside you will see a submission form that’s completed by the IO and signed off by the offices senior officer.

 

The form lists everything required to allow the IO/office to issue an extension. If the file were ever audited, and a copy of the bank book was missing and a wavier wasn’t on file, the IO/Supervisor would have a problem.

 

As long as copies are on file the IO has covered their back. If seasoning — or any other requirement — has been waived the file would have to include a request from the supervisor that has been signed off by a senior officer.

A legitimate agent is helping the client put together the documents required to submit to immigration. There is nothing illegal or corrupt about that.

I agree, but if the ‘’legitimate agent’’ you refer to takes it without the applicant, it is illegal

As I said there is no market for this service, the American chef with blog on here, could not find one in Bangkok and had to do what the agent said he should do and did it himself!

 

It was reported last year that the British government issued YS with a 10 year visitor visa!

Reported, yes but not confirmed

BPost reported on 29 May 2018 that the UK foreign ministry nor the Thai foreign ministry knew anything about it

They said BBC Thai, whose editor is based in London, attributed the information to "a source close to Yingluck", whose name was withheld. 

Yes very reliable…………

 

A copy of the bank book and letter are required on all files unless waived by a senior officer.

Yes and no, shown at application but not kept on file permanently

The local immigration centre often recycles these and uses the reverse side for scrap paper or 90 reports paper

It’s been reported on here many times that people have seen other people’s information and they have reported it and think it’s a data breach of personal information

However It’s usually kept for 3 months after the renewal/application takes place and discarded/recycled after 90 days report is made

thats why when internal investigation officers arrive they only ask for the last 3 months of papers

When they do they flick through them all and look only for a bankbook on file, nothing more

Obviously if the application has no bankbook on file and its not an income letter supported application then its suspect

they do not have the time to check every application for 800,000 baht, length of time 800,000 in account etc

(picture)

If they kept all the paper they generated they would need a new office the size of CW just to store it

 

 

Maybe you could ask your ‘freind’ (it’s actually spelled friend) to show you a completed file. Inside you will see a submission form that’s completed by the IO and signed off by the offices senior officer

Yes I have seen it, lots of boxes for the officers to tick

Including one that says money in bank?

Easy to tick, and there’s many a spill betwixt cup and mouth…

 

The form lists everything required to allow the IO/office to issue an extension. If the file were ever audited, and a copy of the bank book was missing and a wavier wasn’t on file, the IO/Supervisor would have a problem.

Who exactly do you think they would they have a problem with?

 

As long as copies are on file the IO has covered their back. If seasoning — or any other requirement — has been waived the file would have to include a request from the supervisor that has been signed off by a senior officer.

Yes copies of a bank book on file is required these days

The days of presenting with no book was still going on by bottom feeders at 12k until some weeks ago

IO have now told agents there must now be a bankbook on file

Presumably for this reason as you said: ‘’ As long as copies are on file the IO has covered their back’’.

So that’s OK then…..

 

How would anyone know it was a copy of a faked passbook? It’s a copy!

The original passbook with the applicants name on it must be given now

Why would anyone fake/copy a bankbook?

You just give a bankbook that easily available from any bank (if you know how)

You are getting ridiculous now , ha-ha

 

 

5a250cdde9833_pattayamail-Copy.jpg.5e439023cc50cfccf6a9836f61f5262f.jpg

Edited by notamember
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800.000 baht is not very much if you genuinely have retired and have committed to living in Thailand. Maybe the people getting worried do not really have enough to retire here? I know many people

They will also need a Urine sample to check for drugs and a poo sample to check for worms,  i will just leave my underpants on there desk.   

And I thought the 800,000 baht was for living expenses, not as am interst earner for the Thai banks!    

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7 hours ago, elviajero said:

800K is a MINIMUM. You have always needed access to more than 800K, because if you spend any of the 800K you have to replace it.

 

All this change affects is the choice of what to do with your money for 9 months of the year.

 

The change is unlikely to affect many legitimate retirees.

Won't affect "legitimate" retirees?  Do you refer to those who have a time-machine, and can re-plan to retire here under rules that were not then written?  They just need a DeLorean, Mr. Fusion and a few banana peels to go back and re-arrange history to become perfectly "legitimate."  Forget buying that condo, because that's Immigration's money to ... well, what a dog does to a fire-hydrant to mark its territory.  Good to know that one in advance.  And "income"? - it's not defined as before ("loophole theory" - right?), so they need to go back and plan for that change of terms.

 

Immigration just effectively raised the bank-level to 1.2M Baht through the back-door, with 28-days notice - similar to when they began adding "extra seasoning" to marriage extensions, but even more severe.  No "grandfather clause," almost no warning was given to retirees, and none to married folks.  Sure, you only need 800K, but 1/2 isn't yours to spend any more, and the other 1/2 very limited ...  Unless, you leave and spend it somewhere else (the goal of the policy).  This result hurts Thais most of all, but that's not "immigration's problem," I suppose.

 

They seem to respect "legitimate" retirees (or "legitimate" any foreigner) about as much as we do mildew on bathroom tile, and are busy breaking out the bleach.  Fewer and fewer honest folks who refuse to pay them off will be safe.  They know the "non-legitimate" behavior taking place is facilitated directly by their own staff - so if that were really the issue, all they had to do was stop THAT behavior - not start jamming more knives in our backs with hoops and ladders.

 

The use of that word "legitimate" would be hilarious - the irony being so rich coming from them - if lives (Thai and Expat) were not wrecked by the thousands, every time they roll it out.  Where have I heard it before?
"Legitimate" students = "Pay us 5K baht every 3 mo to us under the table." 
"Legitimate" Tourists = "Pay us 500K or 1M baht to leave you alone for 5+ years to spend your money." 
Why not just put up a skull-and-cross-bones flag in front of every office and entry point, so that people know in-advance what they are getting into?

Ideally, the word "legitimate" would always appear with some sort of extra marking - just to make it clear the poster is being ironic - since no one could possibly be using it seriously, with respect to immigration.  Most especially, after this 28-day notice rule-change for long-stay retirees.

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6 hours ago, Canuck50 said:

Their reasoning for these changes seems to be to stop unscrupulous agent activity and expats "gaming" the system

... and if you'll buy that.  I've got some, Ocean Front Property in Ar-i-zo-na.  From your front-porch you can see, the sea...

 

6 hours ago, Canuck50 said:

they will be chasing a large number of desirables away in the process.

Pshaw, almost all Legitimate Retirees(tm) will be "I'm all right Jack" (sic). 
You just have to account for the word "legitimate" being fungible, and periodically redefined to suit whatever narrative is being pushed. 

 

Read Orwell's 1984 to understand how the operate (re-defining terms), or Kafka to see the position they put us in (no viable / safe path to compliance).

 

6 hours ago, sqwakvfr said:

 I have never heard the countries in South or Latin America offering a Retirement Visa to foreigners.

Actually many of those do, and many also give you PR fairly easily - easier than getting a retirement extension here.  And, if you marry a local, they would never tear your family apart over money (same in the PI).  Given their mores and morals, that would be equivalent to literally paving one's own road straight to hell.

 

Also, no problem staying as a tourist forever in most nations South of the USA - same as PI, Vietnam, Cambodia over here.  After all, those govts want their people to get wealthier, not poorer - and all we do is Contribute Foreign-Sourced Capital to make that possible.  The more of us, the more of their citizens benefit.  It's an easy equation to work out.

 

Even the most cynical and citizen-hating of govts could see that wealthier citizens (not to mention the expats, themselves) pay more taxes (VAT and/or Income) than dirt-poor ones, therefore, only some reality-perception bending religion or xenophobic mindset could compel them to deny opportunity to their own coffers and their citizens at the same time.

 

2 hours ago, no deal said:

if you not qualify whit the thai law stay in your own country!

Why would we go there - vs hopping over to Vietnam, Cambodia, The PI, or much of the rest of the world who welcomes us?  That's a serious question.  Why would we? 

 

These policy changes amount to weakening Thailand, to strengthen its neighbors.  I don't know what someone would need to be smoking to think these changes could in any way benefit the country. 

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47 minutes ago, notamember said:

 

5a250cdde9833_pattayamail-Copy.jpg.5e439023cc50cfccf6a9836f61f5262f.jpg

http://www.pattayamail.com/news/chonburi-immigration-office-records-reviewed-for-corruption-51696

 

"Among the offenses being investigated are agents accepting bribes to extend stays unlawfully; violating entry and exit protocols despite knowing foreigners have no valid reasons for extending their stays; taking bribes for illegitimate entries by people with and without passports; putting in fake entry stamps to enable people to go to a third country; selling the TM 6 departure card for workers in Thailand; and charging extra fees for visas on arrival."

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23 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Why would we go there - vs hopping over to Vietnam, Cambodia, The PI, or much of the rest of the world who welcomes us?  That's a serious question.  Why would we? 

As someone who's continually lambasting Thai Immigration, it's policies and the levels of corruption, it beggars the question Jack, why haven't you follow your own advice.

Edited by Tanoshi
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13 hours ago, Spidey said:

It is, and always has been, based on 2000 USD/month. Check the current exchange rate out and do the maths.

No need to do the math. I can see that is 800K, but my question is, how much longer can it be held at 800K?

 

When a host of things are factored in, one day that figure won't suffice any longer for foreigners to retire in Thailand.

 

Do you think that 2000 USD/month can't be increased??

 

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26 minutes ago, Roy Baht said:

http://www.pattayamail.com/news/chonburi-immigration-office-records-reviewed-for-corruption-51696

 

"Among the offenses being investigated are agents accepting bribes to extend stays unlawfully; violating entry and exit protocols despite knowing foreigners have no valid reasons for extending their stays; taking bribes for illegitimate entries by people with and without passports; putting in fake entry stamps to enable people to go to a third country; selling the TM 6 departure card for workers in Thailand; and charging extra fees for visas on arrival."

And the date was??

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I’m now on annual retirement based on seasoned 800b.
My renewal is august27.
If I want to switch to 65k incoming, how many months do I need to show before renewal?
Do we know yet?


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6 hours ago, Canuck50 said:

I have been extending my stays based on retirement for the past 5 years using the income letter method by providing legitimate proof of income in the form of federal tax assessment notices. Although Canada has not yet announced they will stop issuing these, I think it is likely they will follow the other countries.

 

I will NOT use the bank deposit method for several reasons:

1. I will not tie up that amount of money in Thailand at a low interest bank rate and risk currency fluctuations when I can invest the money for a much better return in my home country.

2. I have only been living here for about 6 months each year (due to requirement to reside in Canada for 5 months per year to maintain free health insurance coverage) so it would be crazy to follow the new rules of 400K year round and 800K for 5 months.

 

I will not use the monthly transfer-in method because:

1. Again it would make no sense to transfer money here year round considering I only stay 6 months.

2. The majority of my income is from investments and personal retirement plan, with my government pension not meeting the 65K requirement. It is not clear to me that they would accept the non-government income, and even if they did, the monthly transfer/exchange costs would be too high. Currently I do one or two large lump sum wire transfers to meet my needs.

3. I am very suspicious that when they get large numbers of expats making monthly (income) transfers into the country, they will begin to exercise their rights under tax treaties to charge income tax on that income. This applies to anyone staying in the country for 6 months or more. It has not been done in the past because they had no proof the transfers in were income during the current year. Will be interesting to see (from a distance) how this turns out.

 

Anyway, given the steady changing (negative) attitudes toward expats over the past several years and these new (stupid) changes in requirements, I will not be renewing my extension after December 2019. I will instead spend my winter months in South America. I might come for a few weeks on a tourist visa for my gf to visit her family. Their reasoning for these changes seems to be to stop unscrupulous agent activity and expats "gaming" the system, but I think with their poorly thought out changes,  they will be chasing a large number of desirables away in the process. Then a few years down the road they will be complaining "where have all the expats gone?", as they did with the Chinese. Or on the other hand maybe they simply don't care. I am sure many considering Thailand for their future will have second thoughts now.

 

Lucky for me I took the sage advice of some TVF members who advised against buying property here so I am free to change direction without losses. Girlfriend is quite happy to follow me to live on the other side of the pond!

It seems to me that you would be a very good candidate to apply for you to apply for an O-A   M Retirement visa at the Thai Embassy in your home country.  I've put lots of posts about this on ThaiVisa in the past, many do get their retirement visa in their home country.  It's all on the Thai Embassy web site.  Probably the same cost in Canada as in Australia.  Aus $275 +police and medical reports and a bit of paperwork.  It's good for 2 years.  The 1st year only is multi-entry.  You can make as many entries in the first year free come and go often as you like, no limit.  If you depart Thailand and return a day before the visa expires (12 months) you can then stay for another 364 days. If you depart during the extension period and want to come back you have to start the process all over again. 

   You do have to have equal to Bt800,000 in a bank a/c in your home country or as I do use a statement from my retirement fund's surrender value of more than = to Bt800,000.  I do not have now nor have I ever had a Bank a/c in Thailand in 7 years and I have an O-A   M retirement visa issued in Australia.  This method has been available for years.  I use my ING BANK free of fee's Debit card to get money.  I cannot find a simpler, cheaper or easier way to transfer money Aus to Thailand.  I have an ANZ Bank and a Citibank debit card as a backup, both do charge more than ING BANK.  ING BANK is cheaper and the exchange rate is excellent.  Just go to any ATM in the world and the download money it is free of all charges.

     I agree that the perhaps 1% interest you may receive if you do put money in a Thai bank a/c is very poor.  My across the board modest bank managed blue-chip investment retirement fund increases by about 10% each year.  Usually 6/7% dividends and 3/4 % capital gains ( not so good in the last few months? but coming back).  This fairly safe investment is available to anyone in most countries.  Just about set and forget.  40% Aus blue chips shares (ASX200) 20% international blur chip share and a variety of other investments that the bank fund tell me they are good.  Some in the ANZ Bank and some in the Reserve Bank Of Australia (where they print the Aus money).  If the Aus Reserve Bank goes broke so would the rest of the world (you can't insure against that).  My fund often goes up or down a bit in sympathy with the local and international share markets or if Mr Trump sneezes.

    The about to be released Royal Commission Report into the financial industry is showing that all banks, pension funds and Insurance companies in Australia have been telling fibs or should lies upon lies for years.  Will be available to the public tomorrow Monday 4th Feb 2019.  Sparks will fly.

     It seems to me that there is really only a small noisy minority kicking up a fuss and making a never-ending lot of useless posts on the internet and making problems for the 90% of applicants that are doing things the right way as Thailand insists it is done, yes, their way if you want to get a retirement visa in Thailand read the instruction!!!.  All you have to do to qualify is have Bt800,000 either in a bank a/c in Thailand or equal to the same amount in a bank a/c in your home country and a bit of paperwork.  The 10% who have not got the required money are just "rocking the boat".  Still good to go if you can beg steal or borrow the funds (it not gunna change) bit similar in Thailand with the girls  "no money no honey".  I don't think the Thai government is remotely concerned if the 10% with little or no money just leave, yes go to To Cambodia, Vietnam or the Philippines.  You'll be back soon with the dough soon?.

   To get a retirement visa in Australia $2,00,000 is a good starting point.

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3 minutes ago, David Walden said:

It seems to me that you would be a very good candidate to apply for you to apply for an O-A   M Retirement visa at the Thai Embassy in your home country.  I've put lots of posts about this on ThaiVisa in the past, many do get their retirement visa in their home country.  It's all on the Thai Embassy web site.  Probably the same cost in Canada as in Australia.  Aus $275 +police and medical reports and a bit of paperwork.  It's good for 2 years.  The 1st year only is multi-entry.  You can make as many entries in the first year free come and go often as you like, no limit.  If you depart Thailand and return a day before the visa expires (12 months) you can then stay for another 364 days. If you depart during the extension period and want to come back you have to start the process all over again. 

   You do have to have equal to Bt800,000 in a bank a/c in your home country or as I do use a statement from my retirement fund's surrender value of more than = to Bt800,000.  I do not have now nor have I ever had a Bank a/c in Thailand in 7 years and I have an O-A   M retirement visa issued in Australia.  This method has been available for years.  I use my ING BANK free of fee's Debit card to get money.  I cannot find a simpler, cheaper or easier way to transfer money Aus to Thailand.  I have an ANZ Bank and a Citibank debit card as a backup, both do charge more than ING BANK.  ING BANK is cheaper and the exchange rate is excellent.  Just go to any ATM in the world and the download money it is free of all charges.

     I agree that the perhaps 1% interest you may receive if you do put money in a Thai bank a/c is very poor.  My across the board modest bank managed blue-chip investment retirement fund increases by about 10% each year.  Usually 6/7% dividends and 3/4 % capital gains ( not so good in the last few months? but coming back).  This fairly safe investment is available to anyone in most countries.  Just about set and forget.  40% Aus blue chips shares (ASX200) 20% international blur chip share and a variety of other investments that the bank fund tell me they are good.  Some in the ANZ Bank and some in the Reserve Bank Of Australia (where they print the Aus money).  If the Aus Reserve Bank goes broke so would the rest of the world (you can't insure against that).  My fund often goes up or down a bit in sympathy with the local and international share markets or if Mr Trump sneezes.

    The about to be released Royal Commission Report into the financial industry is showing that all banks, pension funds and Insurance companies in Australia have been telling fibs or should lies upon lies for years.  Will be available to the public tomorrow Monday 4th Feb 2019.  Sparks will fly.

     It seems to me that there is really only a small noisy minority kicking up a fuss and making a never-ending lot of useless posts on the internet and making problems for the 90% of applicants that are doing things the right way as Thailand insists it is done, yes, their way if you want to get a retirement visa in Thailand read the instruction!!!.  All you have to do to qualify is have Bt800,000 either in a bank a/c in Thailand or equal to the same amount in a bank a/c in your home country and a bit of paperwork.  The 10% who have not got the required money are just "rocking the boat".  Still good to go if you can beg steal or borrow the funds (it not gunna change) bit similar in Thailand with the girls  "no money no honey".  I don't think the Thai government is remotely concerned if the 10% with little or no money just leave, yes go to To Cambodia, Vietnam or the Philippines.  You'll be back soon with the dough soon?.

   To get a retirement visa in Australia $2,00,000 is a good starting point.

An O-A visa is not a retirement visa

in fact there is no such thing as a retirement visa

Edited by notamember
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 My understanding is that most (all) Thai banks charge an incoming transfer fee of 0.25% (minimum of 200, maximum of 500 baht).  Those are the charges for Bangkok Bank but most other Thai banks have similar if not exactly the same charges.  The problem may be that the banks don't tell you about it.  For example, there's no notation in my Bangkok Bank account that it happened, yet I get an SMS whenever I receive an international transfer into my account and there it mentions the exchange rate that was used and the incoming transfer fee.

 

Another way to tell if this is happening is to look at the incoming baht and try to match that up exactly with a TT (Telegraphic Transfer) rate on the bank's exchange rate page.  If the exchange rate that was actually used in your transaction is a little less favorable than you can find listed it may be that your bank's incoming transfer fee has been applied (200-500 baht) without you being specifically notified.

 

Bkk bank charges 200-500b for incoming foreign currencies and to fcd accounts.

If transferred directly to Thai baht account then only daily exchange rate applies.

 

 

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9 hours ago, AloisAmrein said:

No retirement in Thailand, there are far better places with much lesser hassles. Greece, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Argentina, Chile, Uruguay, Ecuador, Vietnam, Malaysia and many more.

 

No problems then...

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