New retiree visa rules bewilder Thai immigration: Source

[Mavideol]

3 hours ago, pattayadgw said:

If BJ keeps going down this road he won't have too many foreigners left in LOS.  Just keep squeezing BJ and at the end of it all it will be just another case of som nom naaaa!!  you make ya bed... now sleep in it!!

he just wants visitors, like in and out, not the ones staying ....    “My goal is to make visitors to our country, whether here for tourism or business, feel safe,” said Surachate,

[lemonjelly]

Madness, 200k + decent health insurance would be a more logical option 

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, moonseeker said:

Still very reasonable requirements for retirement. Much more important would be a mandatory health insurance for anybody on long-term visa or retirement-extensions.

The misery I have witnessed with many foreigners  in my 24 years in TH, due to not having health coverage at all is unreal and not needed. Fully acceptable, that a government does not want low-end and irresponsible foreigners burdening their system. Or it would end up a welfare state like so many European places. There will still be plenty of retirees left, after sorting it all out.  MS>

Good idea in theory but... unfortunately, if the requirement for the new 10 year O-A visa is any indication,  any requirement they would make for health insurance would  on the one hand not be adequate to enable people to pay their  hospital bills in case of major illness/accident while on the other hand including unnecessary OPD cover,  causing the premium to be  25 - 50% higher than it should be for the overall (very low) level of cover. An almost worthless and needlessly expensive policy that would still leave you needing additional  cover.

 

It is a genuine problem but believe me, you do not want this government making up a health insurance clause. They simply do not take the time to research and figure out what sort of cover is needed to avert the problems that frequently arise. Rather they appear to be unduly influenced by local insurance companies and to design requirements tailored to local products that are poorly designed.

 

And then there is the problem o that many people of retirement  have significant pre-existing conditions that would either make them uninsurable or result in significant exclusions (leaving them in essence still uninsured except for accidents).

 

there are things the government could set up and require that would actually make sense but that is nto likely to be what emerges fin any mandatory health insurance requirement.

[icare999]

so i guess this applies to not next extension but one after mines due April so as usual i spent 800,000 quickly after last extension and then as needed topped up as year went on thne made sure their was 800,000 imn it in November and kept it ready.

 

Guess ill find out  soon when i renew 

 

Maybe 500,000 visa elite valid 5 years is a good alternative now you have to keep 400,000 anyway 

 

 

[NanLaew]

3 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

The money must now be in the bank 2 months before AND 3 months after.

And then there are those who have been happy to leave either the 400 k or 800 k totally untouched for year after year. You don't hear much from them. Bloody heretics!

[overherebc]

4 hours ago, trainman34014 said:

Will this lot end up in the file cabinet marked ''It's all been a terrible misunderstanding '' ?

Or extradited to Saudi or somewhere like that.

[birddogger]

and 400K there at ALL times

Which means an extra 325,000 using the bank deposit method over the 65,000 monthly income method (65,000 X 5) since the 800,000 which is supposed to prove sufficient funds for living in Thailand can't actually be used for support 5 months of the year. In addition half of the 800,000 support money can't be used at all and must remain in a bank account.

I'm sure this makes sense to someone at the IO office as a method of solving a perceived problem with some retirees in Thailand but baby and bath water tossing might be at play here.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[overherebc]

28 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Good idea in theory but... unfortunately, if the requirement for the new 10 year O-A visa is any indication,  any requirement they would make for health insurance would  on the one hand not be adequate to enable people to pay their  hospital bills in case of major illness/accident while on the other hand including unnecessary OPD cover,  causing the premium to be  25 - 50% higher than it should be for the overall (very low) level of cover. An almost worthless and needlessly expensive policy that would still leave you needing additional  cover.

 

It is a genuine problem but believe me, you do not want this government making up a health insurance clause. They simply do not take the time to research and figure out what sort of cover is needed to avert the problems that frequently arise. Rather they appear to be unduly influenced by local insurance companies and to design requirements tailored to local products that are poorly designed.

 

And then there is the problem o that many people of retirement  have significant pre-existing conditions that would either make them uninsurable or result in significant exclusions (leaving them in essence still uninsured except for accidents).

 

there are things the government could set up and require that would actually make sense but that is nto likely to be what emerges fin any mandatory health insurance requirement.

As soon as they start an O-A ten year visa let me know. I want one.

[NanLaew]

2 hours ago, smedly said:

if they want to check if someone cheated the seasoning rules using and agent and bribing an IO - all they have to do is check the used bank account and it will clearly show the 800k baht was deposited and withdrawn on the same day as the extension application, no need at all for this stupid nonsense

Who is 'they'?

[mercman24]

and now the <deleted> idiots demand me to keep 400,000 of my money. ( 9000 uk pounds )  doing sweet <deleted> in a thai bank,  for ever. yes i think next november i am off to pastures new, what <deleted> thought that one up. third world country no logical thinking

[NanLaew]

1 hour ago, steve73 said:

It is not an attempt to tighten up on the agents.

Correct. The only people that need these agents are foreigners so if you squeeze the foreigners hard enough, they bugger off and the agents will magically disappear. This handily obviates the need for any more foxes to watch the chickens and should give enough time for the aforementioned chickens and their agents to seek out alternative revenue streams..

[ocddave]

The world is run on computers, they should really get Immigration up to speed, thus ending the piles of papers every year, 90 days, etc. While doing so, they should also have a simple login for checking Thai bank records on foreign Visa holders, or better yet, have it automatically update a database at Immigration with the information. Then we just show up with our Passport in hand, they look it us up on a computer, and viola all the information is already present, then stamp our passport and move on.

[HuskerDo]

3 hours ago, NCC1701A said:

Reactions on Thaivisa, a webforum frequented by expats in Thailand, was overwhelmingly negative, with many commentators saying the regulations undercut claims from Thai officials that the deposit is to ensure they have sufficient resources to get by.

 

“Then why keep up the charade that this money is to cover living expenses if it can only be used six months out of the year,” user Connda wrote. “So…what’s next? What’s the next hammer to drop?”

“And I thought the 800,000 baht was for living expenses, not as an interest earner for the Thai banks!” user Madmitch vented.

 

there is room in my attic if anyone wants to hide.

Will we have to share it with the rats or will they be finding other lodging? ????

Edited February 1, 2019 by HuskerDo

[kickstart]

2 hours ago, fusion58 said:

I was at CW today, and officer with whom I spoke indicated that three months’ worth of seasoning - not two - were required of me for a retirement extension.

Lopburi office opened about 8 years, and money has always been seasoned for 3 months, I have said why not 2 months like other offices, they said here is 3 months.

So now can not touch the money for 6 months. 

[tropo]

4 hours ago, Just1Voice said:

I'm just glad I can show a monthly income into a Thai bank for well above the required 65K a month.  With recently printed out deposits from my bank for the past year.  

Are you sure? There was a recent report that this will not be an option at the Jomtien immigration office. Only an Income letter or bank deposit would be accepted.

[Fex Bluse]

22 minutes ago, mercman24 said:

and now the <deleted> idiots demand me to keep 400,000 of my money. ( 9000 uk pounds )  doing sweet <deleted> in a thai bank,  for ever. yes i think next november i am off to pastures new, what <deleted> thought that one up. third world country no logical thinking

And, to add insult to injury, the types of Thai accounts the money can be held in are crap, low interest accounts. 

 

They don't like us here, their logic is to squeeze and milk us or to drive us away. They don't care which one. 

[robsamui]

Nowhere, surely, in all of the nations in the world, is there one country which changes, not simply their finer points of the immigration policy every now and again, but the entire and absolute philosophy of its national attitude, more than this small and insignificant nation called Thailand. GOD! This country thinks it's special!

 

20 years ago anyone could come here and stay for 6 or 7 years on a tourist visa.

 

5 years ago there was a total ban on end to end border runs.

 

2 years ago the nation didn't want longstay pensioners or retirees but put out the red carpet for Chinese daydrippers.

 

6 months back Chinese daytrippers came in visa free.

 

2 weeks ago the whole outlook turned around and border runs - one month stays - could now go on forever like it did 20 years ago (but then Thai officials today were not born the last time around. It is a new idea.)

 

And last week if you want to stay in Thailand you have to bank 800,000 baht just to say hello, then lodge (ie PAY) Thailand 400,000 baht to stay here.

 

I came here to live and invest in 1998. Since then I've adjusted to and ridden all the silliness. But every bloody month now this bunch of idiots make another contradictory rule which none of its officials know about because they are still trying to catch up with the last rulings from 6 months ago.

 

That's it.

 

I'm off to Vietnam to invest and live because at least the administration there is happy about foreigners staying there for more than one month.  Thailand is bleeding itself to death because it thinks it is such a special country and is demanding big money to go along with this..

 

Compare this with an emerging African nation. But the African win because they have consistency and stability. Unlike Thailand.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 1, 2019 by robsamui

[marcusarelus]

7 minutes ago, Fex Bluse said:

And, to add insult to injury, the types of Thai accounts the money can be held in are crap, low interest accounts. 

 

They don't like us here, their logic is to squeeze and milk us or to drive us away. They don't care which one. 

Fixed income account 2%.  Given the fall of your currency against the baht how much is the real interest rate at home?

[marcusarelus]

9 minutes ago, robsamui said:

Nowhere, surely, in all of the nations in the world, is there one country which changes, not simply their finer points of the immigration policy every now and again, but the entire and absolute philosophy of its national attitude, more than this small and insignificant nation called Thailand. GOD! This country thinks it's special!

 

20 years ago anyone could come here and stay for 6 or 7 years on a tourist visa.

 

5 years ago there was a total ban on end to end border runs.

 

2 years ago the nation didn't want longstay pensioners or retirees but put out the red carpet for Chinese daydrippers.

 

6 months back Chinese daytrippers came in visa free.

 

2 weeks ago the whole outlook turned around and border runs - one month stays - could now go on forever like it did 20 years ago (but then Thai officials today were not born the last time around. It is a new idea.)

 

And last week if you want to stay in Thailand you have to bank 800,000 baht just to say hello, then lodge (ie PAY) Thailand 400,000 baht to stay here.

 

I came here to live and invest in 1998. Since then I've adjusted to and ridden all the silliness. But every bloody month now this bunch of idiots make another contradictory rule which none of its officials know about because they are still trying to catch up with the last rulings from 6 months ago.

 

That's it.

 

I'm off to Vietnam to invest and live because at least the administration there is happy about foreigners staying there for more than one month.  Thailand is bleeding itself to death because it thinks it a really special country.

 

I don't think it is. I'm moving on.

 

Credit rating Vietnam BB  Thailand BBB+

 

I got to Thailand 20 years ago and put $25K in the bank and nothing has changed for me in those 20 years. 

[HuskerDo]

12 minutes ago, Fex Bluse said:

And, to add insult to injury, the types of Thai accounts the money can be held in are crap, low interest accounts. 

 

They don't like us here, their logic is to squeeze and milk us or to drive us away. They don't care which one. 

You can also keep most of your money in your homeland and deposit/transfer funds 65,000 baht into a Thai account each month. What's the issue? Of course if you don't qualify for a retirement visa that's another story.

[robsamui]

15 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

Credit rating Vietnam BB  Thailand BBB+

 

I got to Thailand 20 years ago and put $25K in the bank and nothing has changed for me in those 20 years. 

So What - you are an investor or you are looking for domestic consistency? You LIVE where? I live in Thailand and who gives a shit about your ancient investments. Now I am going to live somewhere else  after building a life in Thailand and living here.

Complain about your lack of investment foresight to someone who cares. Nobody here does. But we DO care about the quality of life in Thailand. And that's why thousands like me are moving out.

Stuff that in your investment portfolio and weight the losses and chat to other bloodless investors about it.

 

Edited February 1, 2019 by robsamui

[Justin Side]

Bewildering a Thai.

Don't take much does it?

 

[Andrew Dwyer]

Lopburi office opened about 8 years, and money has always been seasoned for 3 months, I have said why not 2 months like other offices, they said here is 3 months.
So now can not touch the money for 6 months. 

It is ( currently) 2 months for the first extension then 3 months after that.

The new ruling ( starting March 1st ) states 2 months before renewal then 3 months after , although this is not etched in stone and could well be 3 before and 3 after .

Whatever the ruling confusion will abound and no doubt some IO’s will interpret the rules differently.

[skatewash]

3 hours ago, Dumbastheycome said:

The new  requirement may be a problem  for some but I have just thought of a  complication not yet mentioned.

I am guessing that the confirmation of the  permanent deposit of 400,000 maybe would be asked for at the date of a new 90 day report date following  an extension. Or a special visit to do same. There must be  some process to provide the  confirmation but as yet  no explanation that I have heard of.

However if any person  exits Thailand  for any time prior to that 3 months in possession of a re entry permit and is away until a date after the 3 month time  period the current 90 day report date has expired and starts fresh at  date of re  entry and irrelevant to any previous.

I am up for applying for another extension in  2 weeks time. I also plan to get a re entry permit on same  day for an exit shortly  after. 

The money on deposit is not an issue because I am fortunate enough to have 800,000 which  never leaves the  bank  year on year.

My question is  what is/will be the process to confirm that if I was  not here 3 months after an extension?

 

Easiest way.  Retroactively at your next application for extension of stay have you show a bank statement for the previous twelve months.  All the data immigration needs to see whether you complied with the new rules is all there in the bank statement.  No addition visits to immigration necessary. Absolutely no connection to 90 Day Reports.

[skatewash]

2 hours ago, Mango Bob said:

I got an idea lets just start all over again and let those embassies issue income letters just like before and forget how you made a fool of yourself here BJ.

It's the embassies, not BJ who unilaterally decided to stop issuing income letters.  So who're the ones making fools of themselves?  When this was apparently discussed between Thai Immigration and the embassies back in May 2018 I don't believe BJ was even in the immigration division.  Repeated FOIA requests from the British Embassy have been answered by saying that no one on the British side bothered to take notes of what was discussed in the meetings.  We can't be sure what was said, but we can now be sure that certainly the UK, US, Australia, and Danish embassies made a colossal mistake by deciding on their own to stop the income letter service to their citizens.  Other embassies that did not make the same mistake continue to offer their citizens income letters and those letters continue to be accepted by Thai Immigration.

[overherebc]

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Just when we are getting to breaking all records on pages and posts.

????????????????

It's a joke by the way. It's not serious.

[fulhamster]

2 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

Do you think the Thai electorate think him a fool?

Most have never heard of him.

[simtemple]

1 hour ago, HuskerDo said:

They don't like us here, their logic is to squeeze and milk us or to drive us away. They don't care which one. 

The Philippines requires an initial bank deposit of US $10,000 and it can be used as a deposit to purchase a property.  The added bonus is that there are no greedy Thais and the Filipinos generally speak good English.

[fulhamster]

2 hours ago, lemonjelly said:

Madness, 200k + decent health insurance would be a more logical option 

Hard to get decent insurance coverage aged 65 plus

 

[Lingba]

so what exactly ware they going to do to monitor you having the money in 3 months after you were given the extension????….are we now going to have to bring in a bank statement when we do our 90 day?...as usual, a ton of gray areas that nobody will be able to figure out and no two immigration offices in this country will process all this in the same way....another mess