Elite Visa now a serious alternative to 800k in bank?

[Lacessit]

43 minutes ago, crazykopite said:

Only problem with the elite visa it only covers one individual my wife like me is British for it would cost us 800,000 for the 5 years and let’s face it nothing but nothing is guaranteed in Thailand a new government could come in and scrap it .

Agree. You are up the proverbial creek in a barbed-wire canoe without a paddle. At least with the 800,000 baht on deposit, one can withdraw it, convert to gold or another currency, and wave bye-bye.

[Fairynuff]

2 hours ago, sirineou said:

No one is Knocking anyone who has an Elite visa , what we are knocking is the assertion that  it is a serious alternative to the 800k in the bank for reasons we stated above.

Personally if I had 500k to waste because I did not want to spend a couple of hrs of my time to deal with the extension requirements, I would buy my daughter a new car, or help my sister pay her mortgage. etc,  

For some people it IS a serious alternative. So you ARE knocking those people. Perhaps they can afford the visa, the car AND the mortgage. Right now I don’t need or want an Elite visa but I wouldn’t rule it out for it’s convenience

[donim]

I think.. If you can afford it, the elite visa is good for unmarried people who are under retiree age.

When you are egible for the O-A retirement visa, then that is the best option, because the money then stay yours.

rgds,

[sirineou]

6 minutes ago, Fairynuff said:

For some people it IS a serious alternative. So you ARE knocking those people. Perhaps they can afford the visa, the car AND the mortgage. Right now I don’t need or want an Elite visa but I wouldn’t rule it out for it’s convenience

again you are missing the point. This Op is not that "for some people it is a serious alternative" it certainly is, this Op is that   " Elite Visa now a serious alternative to 800k in bank? "

not just  "for some people"

and that's what we have a problem for the reasons we stated. You can ofcourse disagree and state how the reasons we posted are wrong.

Edited February 3, 2019 by sirineou

[Fairynuff]

6 minutes ago, sirineou said:

again you are missing the point. This Op is not that "for some people it is a serious alternative" it certainly is, this Op is that   " Elite Visa now a serious alternative to 800k in bank? "

not just  "for some people"

and that's what we have a problem for the reasons we stated. You can ofcourse disagree and state how the reasons we posted are wrong.

Semantics 

[sirineou]

1 minute ago, Fairynuff said:

Semantics 

Not semantics at all, simply language. All Chinese are Asians but not all Asians are Chinese. If you can't understand that simple concept I can't help you.

[Fairynuff]

3 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Not semantics at all, simply language. All Chinese are Asians but not all Asians are Chinese. If you can't understand that simple concept I can't help you.

If you’re that desperate to “win” I’ll help you....I definitely don’t think I'm ever likely to need YOUR help. G'night

[Jingthing]

I'm thinking about it. 

My reasons are complex and specific to my personal situation.

From a purely financial basis obviously it's money spent that maybe you don't need to spend. 

But I am seeing the benefits and that you do get something for it. Is it worth it? That's personal. 

In my case it would be the 5 year deal with the intention that I wouldn't be staying here after then.

If it turned out I wanted to stay here after that, then it would have been a mistake. Also a mistake if you buy 5 years and you use it for only 2.

So I'm thinking about it as an option with pros and cons like any other choice. 

Edited February 3, 2019 by Jingthing

[Fairynuff]

5 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I'm thinking about it. 

My reasons are complex and specific to my personal situation.

From a purely financial basis obviously it's money spent that maybe you don't need to spend. 

But I am seeing the benefits and that you do get something for it. Is it worth it? That's personal. 

In my case it would be the 5 year deal with the intention that I wouldn't be staying here after then.

If it turned out I wanted to stay here after that, then it would have been a mistake. Also a mistake if you buy 5 years and you use it for only 2.

So I'm thinking about it as an option with pros and cons like any other choice. 

I get that completely. Everyone’s choice is based on what feels right for them. Pity not everyone sees it that way

[sirineou]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

I'm thinking about it. 

My reasons are complex and specific to my personal situation.

From a purely financial basis obviously it's money spent that maybe you don't need to spend. 

But I am seeing the benefits and that you do get something for it. Is it worth it? That's personal. 

In my case it would be the 5 year deal with the intention that I wouldn't be staying here after then.

If it turned out I wanted to stay here after that, then it would have been a mistake.

Ok so lets do a cost benefit analysis 

Elite visa Cost :  $500k bht you will never see that money again. 

Elite visa Benefit: ,  you don't have to apply every year for 5 years , some perks at the airport.

 

Retirement extension costs:, 1,900 for an application , must have 800k in the bank and spend a couple of hours of your time expediting it. (for five years it will cost you 9,500 bht plus 10 hrs of your time)

Retirement extension Benefit: extension to stay, you get to keep the 800k in case you need it, which IMO is the reason for the requirement.

So an elite visa costs 100k per year, where a Retirement extension costs 1,900 bht per year plus a couple of hrs out of your life and you don't get the airport perks. 

So if you make more than 50k an hour and need the airport perks it would be more cost effective to pay the 100k  if not then it would be more cost effective to go the retirement extension route IMO.

Please correct errors in my assessment.

 

 

[Fairynuff]

6 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Ok so lets do a cost benefit analysis 

Elite visa Cost :  $500k bht you will never see that money again. 

Elite visa Benefit: ,  you don't have to apply every year for 5 years , some perks at the airport.

 

Retirement extension costs:, 1,900 for an application , must have 800k in the bank and spend a couple of hours of your time expediting it. (for five years it will cost you 9,500 bht plus 10 hrs of your time)

Retirement extension Benefit: extension to stay, you get to keep the 800k in case you need it, which IMO is the reason for the requirement.

So an elite visa costs 100k per year, where a Retirement extension costs 1,900 bht per year plus a couple of hrs out of your life and you don't get the airport perks. 

So if you make more than 50k an hour and need the airport perks it would be more cost effective to pay the 100k  if not then it would be more cost effective to go the retirement extension route IMO.

Please correct errors in my assessment.

 

 

Just one error.....

not everything in life needs an analysis or needs to be cost effective 

[Jingthing]

10 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Ok so lets do a cost benefit analysis 

Elite visa Cost :  $500k bht you will never see that money again. 

Elite visa Benefit: ,  you don't have to apply every year for 5 years , some perks at the airport.

 

Retirement extension costs:, 1,900 for an application , must have 800k in the bank and spend a couple of hours of your time expediting it. (for five years it will cost you 9,500 bht plus 10 hrs of your time)

Retirement extension Benefit: extension to stay, you get to keep the 800k in case you need it, which IMO is the reason for the requirement.

So an elite visa costs 100k per year, where a Retirement extension costs 1,900 bht per year plus a couple of hrs out of your life and you don't get the airport perks. 

So if you make more than 50k an hour and need the airport perks it would be more cost effective to pay the 100k  if not then it would be more cost effective to go the retirement extension route IMO.

Please correct errors in my assessment.

 

 

For me to answer that I would need to get into all the complexities of my personal situation. Which I don't want to do. Not trying to be mysterious.  So I can't correct you. The "new rules" combined with the end of U.S. embassy letters which I intended to begin to legitimately use this year are definitely what has nudged me into thinking about the elite option more seriously. That doesn't mean I will do it, just that I see it as one answer for me.

 

If the above is your calculation and you don't identify any personal reasons that would change that, then that's what's right for you.

Edited February 3, 2019 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, Fairynuff said:

Just one error.....

not everything in life needs an analysis or needs to be cost effective 

Yes there are factors other than only the green eyeshade perspective, that's for sure. 

[sirineou]

3 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

For me to answer that I would need to get into all the complexities of my personal situation. Which I don't want to do. Not trying to be mysterious.  So I can't correct you. The "new rules" combined with the end of U.S. embassy letters which I intended to begin to legitimately use this tear are definitely what has nudged me into thinking about the elite option. If the above is your calculation and you don't identify any personal reasons that would change that, then that's what's right for you.

I agree , 

For some depending on their situation it might be the better solution. After a year or two retired in Thailand I might find out that it is for me also.

 I am now 62 at some point I might get too old or unhealthy to be running around and expediting retirement extensions, at that point investing $15,000 (the price of an inexpensive car) might be the best thing to do . But for most people , given the above metrics is not IMO. 

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, sirineou said:

I agree , 

For some depending on their situation it might be the better solution. After a year or two retired in Thailand I might find out that it is for me also.

 I am now 62 at some point I might get too old or unhealthy to be running around and expediting retirement extensions, at that point investing $15,000 (the price of an inexpensive car) might be the best thing to do . But for most people , given the above metrics is not IMO. 

Those might be your reasons if you go in that direction, but mine are different. I don't see the point in sharing them as they are specific to my situation and future plans in a 5 year time frame. 

[Ratt Thai]

18 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Ok so lets do a cost benefit analysis 

Elite visa Cost :  $500k bht you will never see that money again. 

Elite visa Benefit: ,  you don't have to apply every year for 5 years , some perks at the airport.

 

Retirement extension costs:, 1,900 for an application , must have 800k in the bank and spend a couple of hours of your time expediting it. (for five years it will cost you 9,500 bht plus 10 hrs of your time)

Retirement extension Benefit: extension to stay, you get to keep the 800k in case you need it, which IMO is the reason for the requirement.

So an elite visa costs 100k per year, where a Retirement extension costs 1,900 bht per year plus a couple of hrs out of your life and you don't get the airport perks. 

So if you make more than 50k an hour and need the airport perks it would be more cost effective to pay the 100k  if not then it would be more cost effective to go the retirement extension route IMO.

Please correct errors in my assessment.

 

 

just look into all the changes that came the last few months and the upcoming next....

I am not talking about the "non" posters but about all the experiences from those that encountered various situations...

Don't tell me that nobody saw the changes coming... and much more to come for sure...

Having a TE visa for the next 20 year ?: priceless....

[sirineou]

15 minutes ago, Fairynuff said:

Just one error.....

not everything in life needs an analysis or needs to be cost effective 

of course it does. Why would anyone enter into an endeavour without knowing what one is getting into, and what good reason  would induce someone to pay more than they should?

[Jingthing]

5 minutes ago, sirineou said:

of course it does. Why would anyone enter into an endeavour without knowing what one is getting into, and what good reason  would induce someone to pay more than they should?

Sure. But guess what? You can't predict the future. I'm fairly torn. I can think of scenarios where it would turn out to be really stupid to go Elite, and I can also think of scenarios where if I don't go Elite, it will have been a big mistake not do. I guess it goes without saying that 500K is not chicken feed to me. Obviously the truly "elite" wouldn't have to think about it for more than a minute!

Edited February 3, 2019 by Jingthing

[Fairynuff]

12 minutes ago, sirineou said:

of course it does. Why would anyone enter into an endeavour without knowing what one is getting into, and what good reason  would induce someone to pay more than they should?

Because they choose to even if you don’t 

[donim]

4 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Thai Elite visas are fine for those who can afford it.

I can afford to keep 800,000 baht on deposit. My agent costs me 13,500 baht a year. That includes extensions and 90 day reporting. X5 = 67,500 baht  over 5 years. It's a no-brainer for me.

You are better out than me.. and I am not using an agent.

 

3 x 1900 = 5700   (three extensions fee)
1 x 3100 = 3100   (the workpermit and application fee)
1 x 100  =  100   (for a sheet of photo)

1 x 3000 = 3000   (for the visa obtained outside thailand)
1 x 3500 = 3500   (for return ticket to malaysia)
7 x  800 = 5600   (for the stay in malaysia)

Total : 21000

 

Over five years  105000thb. Still better than the Elite Visa.

 

Rgds,

[sirineou]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

Sure. But guess what? You can't predict the future. I'm fairly torn. I can think of scenarios where it would turn out to be really stupid to go Elite, and I can also think of scenarios where if I don't go Elite, it will have been a big mistake not do. 

IMO the reason that there is an 800k requirement is so that retirees in Thailand have a cushion to defend against unforeseen circumstances.

IMO even if one has an Elite visa one still needs that financial cushion in the bank .

So for most , if you have that cushion in the bank why pay for an Elite visa. 

Now I understand that for some such as you and maybe me when I get older, each of as for our personal reasons it might be a cost effective option,  We all do what we have to do, I get it.

But for most , which is what this thread is about, IMO it is not it is too expensive for what you get.

By the way if you are going to get one, If I was you, I would get one soon, I am afraid there is a good chance  the requirement will change to reflect changing economic conditions  $15000 is no longer an elite amount.

 

[Jingthing]

Well, I will say an important factor in my interest in Elite which was sparked by both the recent immigration orders. It's that I own a condo that is going to be very hard to sell and I don't want to leave Thailand without getting some money from it. I'm afraid if things go south, some technical problem with an extension, going under 400K because of an emergency expense for example, that then I'll have to start over, and that could cost a fortune because I might have to reimport 800K from abroad to get a new O visa (as the combo method seems very questionable especially without embassy letters). That would have tax impact for me in the USA withdrawing from an IRA. Like I said complex stuff and I'm only scratching the surface. So then I might potentially have the condo asset and might lose my right to live here for as long as it takes to sell it, which I think will be a long time. So in a very rough way, I'm thinking of maybe spending 500K as a way to protect a much larger amount of money in the condo. Plus not needing to show 800K annually, I would then keep much less here, and more in the USA, and only import as needed rather than constantly playing games with the 800K / 400K thing which now looks as if it's turned into a Kakfaesque nightmare. Moral of the story -- rent don't buy. 

Edited February 3, 2019 by Jingthing

[fusion58]

1 hour ago, sirineou said:

Retirement extension Benefit: extension to stay, you get to keep the 800k in case you need it, which IMO is the reason for the requirement.

 

Under the current rules, as long as you’re living in Thailand, you can only use 50% of your 800K six months out of the year - a stipulation which belies the pretense that such rules exist simply to ensure retirees have enough money in the bank to cover living expenses.

 

One of the main reasons I chose to pull the trigger on the TE visa was that I couldn’t stomach the prospect of these grifters holding my money hostage in that manner. Even less palatable was the idea of being forced at figurative gunpoint to bank in a foreign county simply because these half-wits were too lazy and/or stupid to read statements from a foreign bank.

 

I figure I can afford the 500K, and to not have to jump through the perpetually shifting and inconsistently enforced bureaucratic hoops is worth the price of admission to me. 

 

YMMV, as they say.

 

[sirineou]

20 minutes ago, fusion58 said:

One of the main reasons I chose to pull the trigger on the TE visa was that I couldn’t stomach the prospect of these grifters holding my money hostage in that manner.

I understand your frustration but you can't cut your nose off to spite your face. 

 You did not like holding your 800k hostage so you killed 500k of the hostage to end the siege for 5 years? in five years will sacrifice another hostage plus 200k of a hostage ?

anyway at different stages of our lives we react differently to situations, who is to say who  is right.

After I go through the process for a few years I might say F#* it and give them the 500k too.

 

[fusion58]

52 minutes ago, sirineou said:

I understand your frustration but you can't cut your nose off to spite your face. 

 You did not like holding your 800k hostage so you killed 500k of the hostage to end the siege for 5 years? in five years will sacrifice another hostage plus 200k of a hostage ?

anyway at different stages of our lives we react differently to situations, who is to say who  is right.

After I go through the process for a few years I might say F#* it and give them the 500k too.

 

I’ve never had a Thai bank account. I’ve used income affidavits for all my extensions of stay, so they’ve never had my 800K to hold hostage.

 

As for what happens five years from now, who knows?

I’m no spring chicken, so I’m not sure I’ll even be alive.

I’m also not sure I want to commit to Thailand for more than five years.

 

I reckon paying a flat fee for them to leave me the f@#* alone and to enjoy the next five years of my life is worth it.

 

 

[galt67]

A 'better value' if considering a TE is the 20-year option.

 

Albeit 1m/Bht, it's 'only' 50k/Bht/year.

 

In other words, 4,166/Bht/month for the next 20-years.

 

Personally, I happily paid (approximately) $133USD/month to avoid TH Imm hassles.

 

 

 

[sirineou]

2 minutes ago, galt67 said:

A 'better value' if considering a TE is the 20-year option.

 

Albeit 1m/Bht, it's 'only' 50k/Bht/year.

 

In other words, 4,166/Bht/month for the next 20-years.

 

Personally, I happily paid (approximately) $133USD/month to avoid TH Imm hassles.

 

 

 

1m/bht invested at 6% for 20 years would return 3,207,135

 

[richard_smith237]

17 minutes ago, sirineou said:

1m/bht invested at 6% for 20 years would return 3,207,135

 

If I'm not wrong..... Assuming an average rate of inflation of *2.2% you'd have to subtract the 1,540,00 bhat to place that into real terms... minus the original 1,000,000 baht investment... your 6% really nets you 661,717 baht after 20 years...  

 

33,090 baht per year - averaged out over 20 years... it starts not to look that good.

 

*Av rate of 'expected' inflation based on past 20 years (1999 to 2019)

 

https://smartasset.com/investing/inflation-calculator#aH5vOVpINo

Edited February 4, 2019 by richard_smith237

[MichaelJohn]

On 2/2/2019 at 11:48 AM, homeseeker said:

long stayers they need keep at least 400k in the bank indefinitely. Might as well write of that sum

So keeping money in the bank is not something we should do; better spend it?

If you're not happy to keep money in the bank then please feel free to PM me and I'll give you my bank account details. I'm very happy to have the money in my bank and it still be there in 10-20 years time so I can enjoy my retirement. Handing B1m to the Govt for a Elite visa is the biggest waste of money I can think of!

[sirineou]

36 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Not quite: Assuming an average rate of inflation of *2.2% you'd have to subtract the 1,540,00 bhat to place that into real terms... minus the original 1,000,000 baht investment... your 6% really nets you 661,717 baht after 20 years... 

 

*Av rate of 'expected' inflation based on past 20 years (1999 to 2019)

 

https://smartasset.com/investing/inflation-calculator#aH5vOVpINo

Corect, tough you are missing a zero  in your inflation calculation .

  The point I was trying to make is not that I can do the math but that there are also opportunity costs involved when you tie up money. in fact there are opportunity costs involved with 800k in the bank which would be the difference between a savings account interest rate and an average investment vehicle.