TM 30 adviced wanted...and isn't this report ott in my case?

[Kalasin Jo]

Hi all!

 

By way of background I have been coming to Thailand and living here semi permanently for over 7 years. I still have a home in Europe and spend just over 6 months there, the rest here. I started on visa exempt entries in 2012 and staying in hotels. I met a Thai lady who became my steady girlfriend then in 2014 we married, legally registered. Back in the autumn of my first year of visits I got a retirement visa and following that renewed it. After getting married and at the time to renew my extension I converted to a marriage rules renewal. Renewals fell in January. This year, for various reasons I decided not to renew, instead I did a border run which of course cancelled my existing visa first obtained nearly 7 years ago. Instead I got a mutiple entry 90 day stays non immigrant O at Savanakhet on evidence of marriage.

 

During all this time I have never done a TM 30 nor aware of one being done.. Nor a 90 day report as I have always left before the 90 days was up. I am not aware of any fines for failure to do a TM 30. Never stopped or asked where I have been staying at Suvarnabhumi exit immigration.

 

So to the TM 30. I have gradually become aware of this report and the convoluted law from which it comes and, apparently, has been extended ( from posts and comments on this forum, which first I just looked at, then joined, then started commenting and posting)..

 

 Each time I arrive of course I put the  address where I will be staying on  the Arrival card given to the IO at Suvarnabhumi  immigration control. For several years that address has been the home I have here in Kalasin Province with my wife, who is the registered  occupant  with a Blue Book to prove it. We have never yet got round to getting me a Yellow Book. Usually though on arrival and before lesving I spend a night or  two in a hotel in Bangkok and whilst here may take a trip or two, usually within Thailand sometimes not as with my Savanakhet run last month, involving a few nights in hotels. I guess when I do that as they copy my passport on check in this is for the TM 30 which they, rather than I, are supposed to file. 

 

When I started living here for several months, rather than just a couple of weeks at a time, first my Thai partner rented a small house in Kalasin City for 1 year. I came and went. Then we moved to Pattaya for about 8 months in total, renting a condo for 6 months and then hotel rooms whilst we decided what to do. Never saw, didn't even know at that time about such a thing as a TM 30. Agents in Pattaya did my visa extensions during this period. No word of any fines and I was still unaware of the TM 30 anyway.

 

After that we moved to her village in Kalasin Province on my next return to Thailand. Married by then too. We stayed in,  but did not rent,  a house belonging to a member of her family whilst we had a new house built for us. At that time on visa extension we went to Sakon Nakhon Immigration Office, the one for the region, although not the nearest IO, because marriage extensions can only be done at the IO of the region you are living in. I was still unaware of TM 30 reporting. My wife certainly has never ever mentioned them nor has the IO at Sakon Nakhon neither on our first trip there nor subsequently. No fines ever levied either, of that I'm sure because I would have been asked to pay them!. Our last visit there was January 2018. As I have said, this January I went to Savanakhet Consulate for a non O based on marriage visa.

 

From posts on here I have begun to wonder why I never got fined! I also wonder about the madness, admittedly with conflicting evidence about one being done every time you return home, within 24 hours, even though the address is shown on the Arrival Card and has been given every time on the extension application form plus copy of wife's Blue Book and ID card and this time at Savanakhet Consulate.

 

So Immigration  know where to find me anyway whilst I am in Thailand! On my initial conversion to marriage extension an officer paid us a visit too. They know where to start looking for me if I am not there but showing as in Thailand because I presume the first and subsequent hotel or guest house I stay at will have done, probably on line, a TM 30 report.

 

As I understand it TM 30s were originally aimed at keeping track of foreign guests staying at hotels and guest houses, then got expanded to condos and rooms rented out. I can understand all that.

 

But to extend it to private homes were you are not a paying guest, not an invitee even but  a marital home registered to your wife , which you have declared anyway on your arrival card, on 90 day reports  if you have to do one, and on marriage visa or extension applications as well.??

 

And to have to do it each time you return to what you regard as your home, which you paid for, on which you pay all outgoings and which the wife and her family also tell me is my home??? 

 

It's madness, bureaucacy over the top.

 

And the IO for my region is 2 1/2  hours minimum drive away. Somewhere it says it can be done at the nearest police station, ( next village for me but it is just that a village station) that would be ok but then I've seen that Immigration don't accept such reporting as their systems don't link!!

 

Should I or my wife be doing it? Where?

 

Will I be fined next time I leave the country or need something at my Immigration Office, or indeed any IO?

 

What is the fine, is it for each infraction? Will it be backdated ? ( That would be alot) does it increase for delayed reporting?

 

Once again a long post, to explain the background and that I have never done one, nor been fined in over 7 years. But I'm leaving again in a few more weeks flying out from Suvarnabhumi. Might I get fined then? Don't usually carry a lot of baht when I leave, so it would be good to be prepared if I should be!

 

Thanks guys, if you've read this far well done!, and for any and all sensible replies

 

 

[steve187]

a bit of a long slog with the story, so i may of missed some info, but here goes, you will have no trouble leaving the country, and now you are on a multi entry you will have no need to deal with local immigration offices, that said if you will have need to obtain any extension be that a 60 day or a 1 year, or if you will need a residency cert, then you may be flagged when doing so and fined, is your choice do a tm30 on your next return and subsequent entries, (following your local immigration office rules), or choose to ignore the tm30 requirements.

[DrJack54]

I agree with Steve. By way of comparison, I also have been here 7yrs and never done a tm30 or 90 report because i fly out los every couple weeks. However... I have lived (rented) same condo bkk for all that time. Another big difference (by members posts) I'm on retirement and you based on marriage. I think OP has been very lucky to continue with extensions. Not sure what lease/evidence was showed for residence. The max fine usually under 2k (I think). 

So as Steve suggested above, I think next time back file a tm30 and move on from there. If it's a fine then just cop it.

[Kalasin Jo]

7 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

I agree with Steve. By way of comparison, I also have been here 7yrs and never done a tm30 or 90 report because i fly out los every couple weeks. However... I have lived (rented) same condo bkk for all that time. Another big difference (by members posts) I'm on retirement and you based on marriage. I think OP has been very lucky to continue with extensions. Not sure what lease/evidence was showed for residence. The max fine usually under 2k (I think). 

So as Steve suggested above, I think next time back file a tm30 and move on from there. If it's a fine then just cop it.

 Thanks for this. As I said in my OP the IO at Sakon Nakhon have never to my knowledge raised this, certainly no fine, although my wife must accompany me and she signs various forms that they ask her to. So perhaps their policy is not to bother with this. Now of course that's history unless  I want to extend the non immigrant O multi entry. Frankly from here , easier just to go out and back in at Mukdahan.

 

Interesting though that can do this by registered post, sent where exactly?

 

 My wife's Blue House book, I D card and Marriage certificate plus the obligatory photos round the house, plus initial visit to our home by Immigration officer always satisfied them for marriage extension as to where I live. My wife and her family have no idea what I am talking about, even now when I talk about this notification!

[Kalasin Jo]

7 hours ago, steve187 said:

a bit of a long slog with the story, so i may of missed some info, but here goes, you will have no trouble leaving the country, and now you are on a multi entry you will have no need to deal with local immigration offices, that said if you will have need to obtain any extension be that a 60 day or a 1 year, or if you will need a residency cert, then you may be flagged when doing so and fined, is your choice do a tm30 on your next return and subsequent entries, (following your local immigration office rules), or choose to ignore the tm30 requirements.

Thanks. I know long slog.. wanted to set out the history to put the fact that I have moved around, come and gone, yet never been pulled up on this in 7 years. Also that it seems an absurd regulation to impose in relation to a marital home and when they have enough to hunt me down anyway.

 

So it seems at least as recently as January 2018'my local IO haven't been enforcing this. If I went back to restore my original status ( starting from scratch I know) or wanted an extension, guess I'd find out then whether that is still so and divi up if fined!

[legend49]

by the third line I was asleep

 

[Baerboxer]

On 2/2/2019 at 12:24 PM, DrJack54 said:

I agree with Steve. By way of comparison, I also have been here 7yrs and never done a tm30 or 90 report because i fly out los every couple weeks. However... I have lived (rented) same condo bkk for all that time. Another big difference (by members posts) I'm on retirement and you based on marriage. I think OP has been very lucky to continue with extensions. Not sure what lease/evidence was showed for residence. The max fine usually under 2k (I think). 

So as Steve suggested above, I think next time back file a tm30 and move on from there. If it's a fine then just cop it.

 

As often the case, different Immigration Offices have different rules. For 9 years our office never asked for a TM30 and I was flying in and out of Thailand regularly. Non O visa with permission to stay extensions first for marriage and then retirement. 

Last November we went to Korea for a short break. I telephoned them and asked them if they wanted a TM30 when we came back. Yes they did and reminded me it should be done within the time limit. We arrived back on 5/11 and went to immigration 6/11. They required photo copies of passport, entry stamp, arrival/departure card, wife's ID and House Residency which I'd prepared. They issued a new address confirmation slip which replaced the one issued when I did my previous extension. 

In passing they said this was now an enforced requirement and if you didn't do it you would be find when next renewing your permission to stay extension.

The TM30 system and 90 day reporting system do not appear to be linked on their computers btw. I did my 90 day reporting last week and the IO questioned why I hadn't done one for a long time and had I been out of the country.

 

In short, check with the office you use and ask their advice. Or be prepared to pay the fine.

[DrJack54]

21 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

As often the case, different Immigration Offices have different rules. For 9 years our office never asked for a TM30 and I was flying in and out of Thailand regularly. Non O visa with permission to stay extensions first for marriage and then retirement. 

Last November we went to Korea for a short break. I telephoned them and asked them if they wanted a TM30 when we came back. Yes they did and reminded me it should be done within the time limit. We arrived back on 5/11 and went to immigration 6/11. They required photo copies of passport, entry stamp, arrival/departure card, wife's ID and House Residency which I'd prepared. They issued a new address confirmation slip which replaced the one issued when I did my previous extension. 

In passing they said this was now an enforced requirement and if you didn't do it you would be find when next renewing your permission to stay extension.

The TM30 system and 90 day reporting system do not appear to be linked on their computers btw. I did my 90 day reporting last week and the IO questioned why I hadn't done one for a long time and had I been out of the country.

 

In short, check with the office you use and ask their advice. Or be prepared to pay the fine.

Good report. Regarding TM30 at CW.

I have been asking for ONE member to post that it had been asked for "extension retirement". Not one report. Excluding folk that have changed address. Recent thread someone mentioned " tm30 now required for CW. Point is these are often marriage or thinking something in paperwork. 

Edited February 3, 2019 by DrJack54
Error

[Rc2702]

The TM3O has only been pushed aggressively for the last year to my knowledge. 

 

So this question seems more like your local immigration office is not pushing it and your concern is your exit out of Thailand without having done a TM30. Maybe SN realise this is difficult to enforce as it is a 24 hour after arrival notification and you are 65km away from them as are many of the farang who need to report there.

 

It's 2k the fine but maybe that's just my local offices interpretation.

 

Precisely the reason I left kalasin. Immigration too far amongst many other big differentials with other provinces.

[DrJack54]

RC2702....Did that oz bar close? Another reason to leave.

[jimn]

Is it that boring up in Kalasin? 

[AlbionBob]

Do you have to do a TM30 if you come in for 29 days on a visa exempt  ?  Sorry to intrude on a different but similar thread.

[ubonjoe]

17 hours ago, AlbionBob said:

Do you have to do a TM30 if you come in for 29 days on a visa exempt  ?

No you do not need to do it unless you decided to stay longer and applied for a 30 day extension at some immigration offices.

[eng911]

5 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

No you do need to do it unless you decided to stay longer and applied for a 30 day extension at some immigration offices.

I come to Mukdahan on a 30 day exemption regularly and was told by io that I need to check in within 24 hrs of arriving at my mother-in-laws home. 

 

It would be nice if the rules were clearer and the same for everyone. 

[Maestro]

11 minutes ago, eng911 said:

I come to Mukdahan on a 30 day exemption regularly and was told by io that I need to check in within 24 hrs of arriving at my mother-in-laws home. 

 

It would be nice if the rules were clearer and the same for everyone. 

With what form were you told to "check in"?

[AlbionBob]

Many thanks for that info, Joe.  I am assuming that you meant to say "No, you do not need to do it...."

[Kalasin Jo]

On 2/3/2019 at 1:55 PM, Rc2702 said:

The TM3O has only been pushed aggressively for the last year to my knowledge. 

 

So this question seems more like your local immigration office is not pushing it and your concern is your exit out of Thailand without having done a TM30. Maybe SN realise this is difficult to enforce as it is a 24 hour after arrival notification and you are 65km away from them as are many of the farang who need to report there.

 

It's 2k the fine but maybe that's just my local offices interpretation.

 

Precisely the reason I left kalasin. Immigration too far amongst many other big differentials with other provinces.

A bit late for me to comment but in my case it's more like 165 km each way. Ridiculous as I come and go often.

 

Couldn't they accept a postal notification if they tell us what they need by way of supporting documents? Better still online TM30 report , as for 90 day reporting, is surely not a difficult thing for Immigration to set up these days if they are going to insist. But I guess a 2k fine is better business.

 

So I guess if and when I need to go to SN I'll pay the fine.

 

I've just changed to a non O mutiple entry based on marriage from Savanakhet Consulate  ( only a little further and easier to drive  and no second trip to pick up on expiry of " under consideration" time) which was really straightforward but limits me to 90 days at a time ( which suits me) and taking in to account the additional cost of Lao visa and necessary hotel stays and meals was quite a bit more expensive. On the other hand no money locked up in the bank either and the trip to Lao was enjoyable!

[Kalasin Jo]

On 2/3/2019 at 11:38 AM, legend49 said:

by the third line I was asleep

 

Good anaesthetic then! Better than beer?

 

On 2/3/2019 at 2:13 PM, DrJack54 said:

RC2702....Did that oz bar close? Another reason to leave.

Scott's bar by the bus station in Kalasin still thriving! It's Brit owned not Oz.

[Maestro]

11 hours ago, Kalasin Jo said:

...Couldn't they accept a postal notification if they tell us what they need by way of supporting documents?...

 

Immigration does tell us what documents they need:

 

TM.30 Immigration  Public Handbook - en

TM.30 Immigration  Public Handbook - th

Based on members' posts, most immigration offices expect to receive also the following documents in addition to the form TM.30:

• copy of the ID page of the passport
• copy of the passport pages with the visa, if any, and the arrival stamp
• copy of the departure portion of the arrival card (TM.6)
• stamped and addressed envelope for mailing the receipt for the TM.30

 

Points 3.2 and 3.3 of the Public Handbook specifically allow notification by post and online.

 

[brewsterbudgen]

On 2/3/2019 at 1:31 PM, DrJack54 said:

Good report. Regarding TM30 at CW.

I have been asking for ONE member to post that it had been asked for "extension retirement". Not one report. Excluding folk that have changed address. Recent thread someone mentioned " tm30 now required for CW. Point is these are often marriage or thinking something in paperwork. 

When (or if) CW start requiring TM30 receipts for all Extensions we will know about it!  I don't think they would be able to cope.  There are not benefits of living in polluted Bangkok, but this is one of them.

[Kalasin Jo]

59 minutes ago, Maestro said:

Immigration does tell us what documents they need:

 

TM.30 Immigration  Public Handbook - en

TM.30 Immigration  Public Handbook - th

Based on members' posts, most immigration offices expect to receive also the following documents in addition to the form TM.30:

• copy of the ID page of the passport
• copy of the passport pages with the visa, if any, and the arrival stamp
• copy of the departure portion of the arrival card (TM.6)
• stamped and addressed envelope for mailing the receipt for the TM.30

 

Points 3.2 and 3.3 of the Public Handbook specifically allow notification by post and online.

 

Thanks for that and the links. Grateful but although I've downloaded the public hand book, going to the Immigration website is not so good. None of the links in it seem to work. I've also read that registration for online reporting does not offer an English version to do so. Anyway the link doesn't work!!!

Edited February 11, 2019 by Kalasin Jo
Additional comments

[ubonjoe]

5 hours ago, Kalasin Jo said:

I've also read that registration for online reporting does not offer an English version to do so. Anyway the link doesn't work!!!

This the link for it. https://extranet.immigration.go.th/fn24online/

Google translate on it helps. The registration page has English on it.

Click the far right button for registration. 

[Kalasin Jo]

On 2/11/2019 at 3:53 PM, ubonjoe said:

This the link for it. https://extranet.immigration.go.th/fn24online/

Google translate on it helps. The registration page has English on it.

Click the far right button for registration. 

Thanks Ubon Joe. The link works fine, so does ( mostly ) Google translate. I get to a registration page, all seems straightforward enough to register our marital home with wife as registered occupant/ housemaster.

 

After filling in the address there is a box I don't understand : " registered agency" if I click on it it quickly goes to another page and back and automatically fills in the box in Thai script, so I've no idea what I've achieved, but the box is starred as a "must" to complete and proceed. 

 

There is then the opportunity to upload documents, presumably copies of wife's blue book and ID card of which I can take photos or if they should be signed by her I'll get copies and photo them for upload. Do you know of anything else?

 

In due course I'm planning on getting my own yellow house book, when I do should I upload a copy of that too do you think?

Edited February 12, 2019 by Kalasin Jo
Update