Jump to content
BANGKOK
robblok

The Law of Metabolic Individuality (fat loss ect)

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, robblok said:

Yes your older then me, but I think the US was ahead of my small village by light years food choice wise 😁. We just had one fast food joint that had french fries and some other fried food. That was it did we want more we had to travel 8km (does not sound much to me now but it did back then).

 

Anyway I also had fresh eggs as my dad had 4 chickens in a pen behind the house. I am sure I could have gotten raw milk too as I lived in the middle of tulip and milk country in the Netherlands. 

 

My high carb is actually not as high as you think i would limit it to 100 grams or less of macaroni.  But it has been proven its good for lifters and I do feel that my weight sessions go better when I eat carbs around them. You have to understand I do take my lifting seriously even though I don't always like to do it. The research has shown that carbs are needed (actually the insulin spike) to get the nutrients in the muscle for repair and growth after a workout. Research has shown that keto does not build much muscle at all (you don't lose muscle on it that is an untruth but building is a lot harder). 

 

That being said, i miss the days of training with a friend of equal mindset and strength, though on the other hand I love being able to do it all at home. 

 

Now if there was only a way of making cardio less boring (i love walking with weights but I mean other cardio). I had tried to wear my VR headset while on the elliptical but it got too hot. I might put a monitor in front of the elliptical, but I am not sure it would help much and it would set me back 8000 bt or so. Not sure I want to spend that. 

    I never saw a soda or potato chips until I was 10 years old.  My family did not live in the middle of nowhere.  They lived 40 miles from the middle of nowhere.  Fast food would have been about 39 miles away first rural road, then county and then state, (only the state road would be concrete) to get a to a city.  So I had not had a fast food hamburger until I was 12.  I didn't know candy was made year round until I was 8 years old.  I have never gotten used to fast food.  I haven't had any in about a year. Probably once a year I eat something like that.  Otherwise not at all.   I stopped drinking soda in the 80's when they came out with New Coke.  I am really glad it tasted so damned bad!  🤣

     People forget that vast areas of the US are very rural and hard to get to.  And yes, people still live there!  I think my mom could still get eggs from a neighbor but being 83 and living alone in a farm house in the middle of NOWHERE she actually likes driving to the city one day a week. 

      So none of my weight problem is processed food or fast food or soda.  I do have a big weakness for really good food.  Fine european pastry, excellent family owned ethnic of almost every variety.  Living in a big city all of it is right at my finger tips.  Maybe I should go live with Mom until I lose another 30 lbs.  😂

       Is there a deprived of civilization diet?  🙂

     

     

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am seeing nice results from what I am doing but as I well know the last steps are the hardest. Weight loss will slow down.

 

An other side not i read that you burn 250 cals a day if you use nicotine. I read that quite some bodybuilders take nicotine gum. I tried it too but to curb hunger before I did not know it increased metabolic rate. 

 

Just for those who are wondering, i took it for a while and stopped without ever having withdrawal symptoms of nicotine addiction. So i don't think its as dangerous as smoking (addiction wise). Not sure how bad nicotine on itself is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Though if your pre diabetic you should really go keto as then it would be a big plus."

 

Not true at all, the best research shows that a high carb whole plant diet is best for chronic diseases such as heart disease and diabetes.

 

Read Dr Gregor, Dr Ornish and so on... the trend is clear.

 

Normally those who love meat and those who sell meat disagree...

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My dieting regime started when I suffered a hernia. If I decided to have surgery, the thought of a surgeon cutting through a belly-load of my fat wasn't appealing. So I purchased a padded truss to keep in the hernia while I slimmed down from 95 kilos.

 

I decided to follow a high fat, low carb plan cutting out beer, bread, and potatoes, using a keto style program. It took a year with some minimal fasting to get down to 80 kilos - and there I stuck.  So I fasted for 84 hours, and reached 73 kilos, which was mainly water loss. However, I quickly gained back most of the weight, despite another three day fasting, and as at today I'm 78 kilos and trying a new plan.

 

This diet is scientifically proven to work if followed properly. It's an every other day (EOD) fast and feast calorie plan. On the assumption that an otherwise healthy male of average height and (over)weight consumes c.2,000 calories (energy) in a normal day, the aim on a fast day is to only consume 500 calories  - 25% - (one small meal and a snack), and on the next feast day eat as much as one wants. Anything goes.

 

The pyschology is knowing that there is no deprivation longer than one day, makes it an easy plan to follow. So, for example if on the feast day, one consumes 3,000 calories on a blow-out, the net calorie consumption is 3,500 over the two-day period or a calorie loss of 500. (4,000-3500).

 

In reality, although I could devour anything and everything on feast day, most times I tend to just eat and drink normally as before, plus walking round the park three times a week for an hour at a time to boost calorie consumpion.

 

I am weighed in at 78 kilos - an everyday measure first thing in the morning - and have been for the last week, so I'm giving it a whirl for a month. As I like to go out and eat lunch three times a week - on the same days - my fast/feast days are feast Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, and fast four days Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturday/Sunday.

 

The idea behind that split is, should my calorie consumption be higher than I estimated during the week, I'd still be in synch by the next Monday morning by having two consecutive fast days at the weekend.  

 

My aim is to get down to 69 kilos  - and then maintain it, by upping my fast days to 1,000 calories plus exercising to regain some abs definition. Then, if I decide to have surgery with no mesh implants, I'd at least be in better shape. 

 

Apologies for the long post - I hope it helps others in similar situations. 

 

 

 

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, TravelerEastWest said:

"Though if your pre diabetic you should really go keto as then it would be a big plus."

 

Not true at all, the best research shows that a high carb whole plant diet is best for chronic diseases such as heart disease and diabetes.

 

Read Dr Gregor, Dr Ornish and so on... the trend is clear.

 

Normally those who love meat and those who sell meat disagree...

 

 

Diabetes (and heart disease, and other modern chronic diseases) are caused by the metabolism becoming insulin resistant. Insulin resistance is caused by the excessive and prolonged intake of carbohydrates. Plant based carbohydrates may be less damaging than processed crap; but they still trigger insulin. Suggesting a high carb diet (whatever the source) for diabetics is dangerous.

The world has an epidemic of diabetes, caused by a modern diet high in sugar, bread, grains, rice, fruit, and carby junk. More than 25%of hospital beds in the UK are occupied by diabetics. 88% of American adults are metabolically unhealthy. Shoveling down more carbs, whatever the source, ain't going to fix it.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, TravelerEastWest said:

"Though if your pre diabetic you should really go keto as then it would be a big plus."

 

Not true at all, the best research shows that a high carb whole plant diet is best for chronic diseases such as heart disease and diabetes.

 

Read Dr Gregor, Dr Ornish and so on... the trend is clear.

 

Normally those who love meat and those who sell meat disagree...

 

 

Your totally wrong about diabetes anyone recommending high carb whole plants for diabetic obviously has no clue at all.  For the heart disease I am not going to say anything as there is evidence on all sides but recommending high carbs even plant based for a diabetic person is crazy. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The actual process by which plaque builds up in the artery does indeed seem to be still not fully understood, but one of the conditions that facilitates it is insulin resistance; which is why diabetics have a greatly increased risk of contracting heart disease (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3610922/).

 

I switched to a plant based vegetarian diet some seven years ago in the belief it was more healthy. Unfortunately I assumed that I could consume vast quantities of fruit as part of this diet, mainly taken as smoothies to maximise the glycemic load. Plus loads of bread and rice and "healthy" breakfast cereal. Five years later I discovered I was pre-diabetic and had heart disease.  My approach to counter this has not been to consume more carbs...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

When I was 16 I've just killed my metabolism by dieting and anorexia. I gained even when I ate 800 kcal/day. It was really hard for me in physical an psychological way. But my mum helped me.

I went to the gym and started to gain muscles. I gained from 39 kilos to 54. It was stress. And went to the therapist to understand what should I do with my mind and where it is).

 

When I deal with anorexia, it was almost 7 months I started the war for my healthy body. 

At first, I've begun eating a lot of protein and fats. Then, I came back to the gym again and worked out still.

After, my nutritionist told me to add vitamins and detox teas. The last was the best decision ever! After that my metabolism has started to run around 2500 kcal and now I can lose weight, if I need, on 2000 kcals/day and stay healthy. I think that it's all because of this tea reduce toxins in the body and digestive system starts working better. 

 

So, love yourself no matter what and stay healthy!

Edited by blackcab
Removed commercial link

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nothing wrong with plant based/ vegetarian/vegan diets if that is what people want to eat; but to claim they are the best for our health infers that somehow we have evolved over the last few tens of thousands of years from being carnivores to herbivores. 

 

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/06/170607133246.htm

 

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/02/190219111704.htm

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Again plant-based diets are clearly best based on the best and most complete research trends.

 

I use the word trends as there is conflicting research out there and a lot of the research is confusing and incomplete.

 

Even good researchers make mistakes as an example I like Dr. Gregor but he seems to on occasion make mistakes such as with his support for nuts which are high fat and not so good for your heart. I guess he is trying to read with the help of his team huge amounts of data and occasionally he misses key points - sad but true - or so it seems.

 

Insulin resistance is caused by excess fat which then means you can't handle high carbs. Saying carbs is the problem is a short-sighted point of view - not wrong but not the complete picture...

 

Processed carbs are very bad for you.

 

Whole plant based carbs are good for your overall health and over time your insulin resistance will go down based on the best-unbiased research and from my personal experience. (anecdotal I understand...) Note if you have diabetes a whole plant-based diet is not a free ticket to unlimited carbs - you need balance and exercise.

 

The key point the low carb people miss is that long term high fat will kill you - full stop. Also short term your weight will tend to go down glucose tends to go down etc - no argument, but long term not so good.

 

I am not here to argue with die-hard meat and low carb folks - only to point out that there are alternate views supported by good research - for those who are new to this discussion. keep in mind a lot of the research that supports meat eating is funded by - guess who... even nut eating is often funded by the nut industry, NIH research is perhaps the best in terms of pure science and being unbiased - or so I am told.

 

I am also not going to argue that animal cruelty is an issue - although I personally feel that it is - but with a few exceptions, almost everyone I know likes meat and is probably not going to stop eating it. So it is a mute point...

 

For the sports and bodybuilders out there please note there is no need to eat meat to build muscle - there are very good bodybuilders and athletes who are vegetarian - but there are not so many which is why people don't know about them.

 

As for everyone is different to a certain extent this is clearly true but some general constants are also true.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, TravelerEastWest said:

Again plant-based diets are clearly best based on the best and most complete research trends.

 

I use the word trends as there is conflicting research out there and a lot of the research is confusing and incomplete.

 

Even good researchers make mistakes as an example I like Dr. Gregor but he seems to on occasion make mistakes such as with his support for nuts which are high fat and not so good for your heart. I guess he is trying to read with the help of his team huge amounts of data and occasionally he misses key points - sad but true - or so it seems.

 

Insulin resistance is caused by excess fat which then means you can't handle high carbs. Saying carbs is the problem is a short-sighted point of view - not wrong but not the complete picture...

 

Processed carbs are very bad for you.

 

Whole plant based carbs are good for your overall health and over time your insulin resistance will go down based on the best-unbiased research and from my personal experience. (anecdotal I understand...) Note if you have diabetes a whole plant-based diet is not a free ticket to unlimited carbs - you need balance and exercise.

 

The key point the low carb people miss is that long term high fat will kill you - full stop. Also short term your weight will tend to go down glucose tends to go down etc - no argument, but long term not so good.

 

I am not here to argue with die-hard meat and low carb folks - only to point out that there are alternate views supported by good research - for those who are new to this discussion. keep in mind a lot of the research that supports meat eating is funded by - guess who... even nut eating is often funded by the nut industry, NIH research is perhaps the best in terms of pure science and being unbiased - or so I am told.

 

I am also not going to argue that animal cruelty is an issue - although I personally feel that it is - but with a few exceptions, almost everyone I know likes meat and is probably not going to stop eating it. So it is a mute point...

 

For the sports and bodybuilders out there please note there is no need to eat meat to build muscle - there are very good bodybuilders and athletes who are vegetarian - but there are not so many which is why people don't know about them.

 

As for everyone is different to a certain extent this is clearly true but some general constants are also true.

"Insulin resistance is caused by excess fat". Sorry, this is completely untrue.
When glucose arrives in the bloodstream, insulin is released by the pancreas to direct the glucose to muscle and fat cells. Glucose comes from carbohydrates/sugar. An intake of protein also requires insulin for metabolism, but to a lesser extent and with limited effect on blood sugar. An intake of fat requires minimal insulin and has no effect on blood sugar. Insulin resistance occurs when the system is consistently overloaded with demands for insulin leading to a rise in blood sugar levels. Fat intake has absolutely nothing to do with this.
Here's some reading for you, published by NIH: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1204764/

Please share your best research that counters current medical science by proving that insulin resistance is caused by excess fat. I would like to read this because my diet is mainly fat (including, horror!, nuts) and my metabolism is healthy with very low HbA1C; so I am obviously a medical freak!

 

"he key point the low carb people miss is that long term high fat will kill you". Yeah, we are all stupid.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, TravelerEastWest said:

Again plant-based diets are clearly best based on the best and most complete research trends.

 

I use the word trends as there is conflicting research out there and a lot of the research is confusing and incomplete.

 

Even good researchers make mistakes as an example I like Dr. Gregor but he seems to on occasion make mistakes such as with his support for nuts which are high fat and not so good for your heart. I guess he is trying to read with the help of his team huge amounts of data and occasionally he misses key points - sad but true - or so it seems.

 

Insulin resistance is caused by excess fat which then means you can't handle high carbs. Saying carbs is the problem is a short-sighted point of view - not wrong but not the complete picture...

 

Processed carbs are very bad for you.

 

Whole plant based carbs are good for your overall health and over time your insulin resistance will go down based on the best-unbiased research and from my personal experience. (anecdotal I understand...) Note if you have diabetes a whole plant-based diet is not a free ticket to unlimited carbs - you need balance and exercise.

 

The key point the low carb people miss is that long term high fat will kill you - full stop. Also short term your weight will tend to go down glucose tends to go down etc - no argument, but long term not so good.

 

I am not here to argue with die-hard meat and low carb folks - only to point out that there are alternate views supported by good research - for those who are new to this discussion. keep in mind a lot of the research that supports meat eating is funded by - guess who... even nut eating is often funded by the nut industry, NIH research is perhaps the best in terms of pure science and being unbiased - or so I am told.

 

I am also not going to argue that animal cruelty is an issue - although I personally feel that it is - but with a few exceptions, almost everyone I know likes meat and is probably not going to stop eating it. So it is a mute point...

 

For the sports and bodybuilders out there please note there is no need to eat meat to build muscle - there are very good bodybuilders and athletes who are vegetarian - but there are not so many which is why people don't know about them.

 

As for everyone is different to a certain extent this is clearly true but some general constants are also true.

I choose to eat meat sorry to offend you.. not because it is good to build muscle (better as most plant based proteins) but because I like eating it.  But it certainly is not where i get most of my proteins from.

 

I believe in carbs i don't see the point to always limit them but it certainly is needed if your diabetic. So your wrong there carbs are the reason. I eat carbs I don't fear them and I eat them around my training and maybe later when I am super lean at normal times.

 

I feel there are far too many extremist about dieting low carb, now you with your pant based diet. I feel you can also eat between low carb and high carb if you want. The basis is eating whole foods and eating less then what you consume and not eating excessive carbs (even plant based) What is excessive depends of course on the individual. 

 

I am getting leaner as ever and I steal eat carbs. I am low carb too on my non training days. It all seems to work right now (until it stops of course)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, FracturedRabbit said:

The actual process by which plaque builds up in the artery does indeed seem to be still not fully understood, but one of the conditions that facilitates it is insulin resistance; which is why diabetics have a greatly increased risk of contracting heart disease (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3610922/).

 

I switched to a plant based vegetarian diet some seven years ago in the belief it was more healthy. Unfortunately I assumed that I could consume vast quantities of fruit as part of this diet, mainly taken as smoothies to maximise the glycemic load. Plus loads of bread and rice and "healthy" breakfast cereal. Five years later I discovered I was pre-diabetic and had heart disease.  My approach to counter this has not been to consume more carbs...

The bread was probably a big part of your challenge?

 

Fruit as smoothies compared to eating whole fruit also a challenge.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
9
2 hours ago, robblok said:

I choose to eat meat sorry to offend you.. not because it is good to build muscle (better as most plant based proteins) but because I like eating it.  But it certainly is not where i get most of my proteins from.

 

I believe in carbs i don't see the point to always limit them but it certainly is needed if your diabetic. So your wrong there carbs are the reason. I eat carbs I don't fear them and I eat them around my training and maybe later when I am super lean at normal times.

 

I feel there are far too many extremist about dieting low carb, now you with your pant based diet. I feel you can also eat between low carb and high carb if you want. The basis is eating whole foods and eating less then what you consume and not eating excessive carbs (even plant based) What is excessive depends of course on the individual. 

 

I am getting leaner as ever and I steal eat carbs. I am low carb too on my non training days. It all seems to work right now (until it stops of course)

Thank you for your consideration - your meat-eating doesn't directly offend me. 

 

What some in this thread don't see is that healthy whole plant carbs are very healthy for diabetics I can tell you this from the research and many years of personal experience.

 

Yes, my diet is very extreme and so is my diabetes (many years) if I did not have diabetes I would not be so extreme.

 

"The basis is eating whole foods and eating less then what you consume and not eating excessive carbs (even plant based) What is excessive depends of course on the individual."

 

I agree with your above statement - smiling.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...