Email From TransferWise...All Deposits Actually Local.

[SooKee]

1 hour ago, xylophone said:

I too would love to use Transfer Wise to get my money from the UK to Bangkok bank here, but as has often been said, the notation on my Bangkok bank account does not show an international transfer, which Thai immigration would want to see.

 

The same happens with my Bangkok bank transfer from their "account/branch" in London as it just shows up as a transfer, no money having left the UK and arriving in Bangkok, because it's purely a paperwork, or should I say computer, exercise.

 

Sure I would give it a try, but the problem is if it was rejected at my next retirement extension in October, I would be well and truly stuffed, so getting it right first time for me is imperative.

 

I will see what the UK pension folks say about the cost of transferring from them directly to Bangkok bank here in Phuket, and if it's not onerous, then I will pursue that route and just top up with monthly payments from my NZ bank.

 

As I mentioned in another post, I used to transfer 800K and could still do it, but I'm damned if I will be held to ransom by tying that and half as much of it up ad infinitum, when I already get two pension transfers from overseas and all it needs is a slight top up to qualify for the 65K per month.......... but Transfer Wise would make it easier!!

I've only done two Transferwise transfers from the UK to Bangkok Bank but both showed up as international with the FTT coding.  I only opened the account to see whether it would prove more reliable than Transferwise to Kasikorn where only 2 of dozens of transfers ever showed as international.  So far it has, but only 2 transfers.  My plan will be to monitor every one and if just one goes adrift I'll likely repeat that transfer using a regular inter-bank SWIFT transfer (unless evidence is forthcoming that IOs are open to explanations and supporting evidence WRT the odd non-international transaction OR, even better, that they're not bothering to look too hard) to plug that gap in the 12 month audit trail then switch to another, more reliable (for showing up as international), and inevitably more costly method.  Interesting that your transfers to BKK Bank don't show as international, guess they must have used another one of their partners.  Have you had many to BKK Bank that haven't shown as international?

 

I did half contemplate switching to the deposit method but with the need to tie that money up for 5-6 months due to changes with that, pass.

Edited February 4, 2019 by SooKee

[wgdanson]

25 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Your situation is similar to mine. I could meet the income requirement  with a single monthly transfer from just ien of 3 income streams with no sending fee (once US Social Security starts IDD to Thailand, expected to be soon) and just a small top up. BUT the rules for the combo method are now entirely unclear, to say the least, even posters here cannot agree on what they mean and at least 2 equally plausible, but very different,  interpretations have been floated....

 

It is such a mess that I have more or less resigned myself to parking 800K in a fixed account separate from my living expenses for 3 years hoping that after that things will be clearer re combo method.  (And I too resent the loss in income on the funds that will entail! Especially since there is no rational point to doing it this way).

Then why do you no simply transfer 65k per month via SWIFT, spend what you want and you have your extension. No combo method involved. No top-up needed.

Edited February 4, 2019 by wgdanson

[Sheryl]

Just now, wgdanson said:

Then why do you no simply transfer 65k per month via SWIFT, spend what you want and you have your extension. No combo method involved.

I prefer to avoid the transfer costs or losses from unfavorable bank exchange rates that would entail. Especially since I will be able to get the largest amount of it sent free, seems wasteful to pay $40-$45 to then do a SWIFT transfer for the small residual.

 

Also my exstenion is in just 5 months time so impossible to make enough monthly transfers by then.

[steve73]

5 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

From where did you get that information. I just did £1000 costing £7.12 in fees. £1600 or about Bht 65,000 will be just over a tenner.

Look at TW's breakdown of fees..  It all spelt out for all currencies.

 

For GBP, it 1.50 plus 0.55% of whatever is transferred.  For me this is 6.59 for 1000. 

I'm guessing that you used a debit card to fund your transfer which makes it a little higher.

[jacko45k]

4 hours ago, onera1961 said:

Why that will be a big issue? The problem is people don't want to take risk. I always take risk and believe me or not rewarded handsomely in my life. Unless you take risk, life is not worth living. 

When you need to show 12 transfers from overseas, and number 6, looks like a domestic one and 6 months later the IO rejects your application for an extension because of it, it just strikes me as foolish!

[wgdanson]

4 minutes ago, steve73 said:

Look at TW's breakdown of fees..  It all spelt out for all currencies.

 

For GBP, it 1.50 plus 0.55% of whatever is transferred.  For me this is 6.59 for 1000. 

I'm guessing that you used a debit card to fund your transfer which makes it a little higher.

Just got this now. I fund T'wise directly from my UK current account.

[farangx]

30 minutes ago, owl sees all said:

I think we are getting over-complicated.

 

I agree "TransferWise is not in the business of providing people with the proper visa documentation". But it does not transfer money. It acts as a facilitator., and for a small(ish) fee allows currency to be moved within countries, once a 'deal' on the exchange rate is struck between the parties.

 

The reason it states the mid-range rate is because that is the fairest for all parties involved.

Basically you get what you paid for, unless the money did not arrived in the overseas account.  The why is NOT important.

 

[wgdanson]

17 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

I prefer to avoid the transfer costs or losses from unfavorable bank exchange rates that would entail. Especially since I will be able to get the largest amount of it sent free, seems wasteful to pay $40-$45 to then do a SWIFT transfer for the small residual.

 

Also my exstenion is in just 5 months time so impossible to make enough monthly transfers by then.

Did Immigration not say they will be 'lenient' this first year? And if, like me, you do 65k every month as an FTT, why would there be any residual top-up.

And by doing it monthly you could possible even out some of the exchange rate differences, it can go up as well as down. You can get an alert from Transferwise either daily, or when your currency reaches a certain level. You don't have to transfer via T'wise.

Edited February 4, 2019 by wgdanson

[owl sees all]

1 minute ago, farangx said:

Basically you get what you paid for, unless the money did not arrived in the overseas account.  The why is NOT important.

 

To understand how 'peer to peer' works goes part way in understanding the transaction's (transfers) origins, and their non-acceptance by the Thai authorities. Although I'm not at all sure that they could understand 'peer to peer' anyway.

[xylophone]

19 minutes ago, SooKee said:

I've only done two Transferwise transfers from the UK to Bangkok Bank but both showed up as international with the FTT coding.  I only opened the account to see whether it would prove more reliable than Transferwise to Kasikorn where only 2 of dozens of transfers ever showed as international.  So far it has, but only 2 transfers.  My plan will be to monitor every one and if just one goes adrift I'll likely repeat that transfer using a regular inter-bank SWIFT transfer (unless evidence is forthcoming that IOs are open to explanations and supporting evidence WRT the odd non-international transaction OR, even better, that they're not bothering to look too hard) then switch to another more reliable (for showing up as international) method.  Interesting that your transfers to BKK Bank don't show as international, guess they must have used another one of their partners.  Have you had many to BKK Bank that haven't shown as international?

Good plan.......let us know how it goes.

 

As for the BKK bank funds transferred from London, well they operate this service and they have an account which I believe is just an "extension'' (not an actual branch) so it may come to another clearing bank (which I doubt) or it is just tied in to an account here in Thailand, so doesn't show up as an international transfer..........great if it did!!

[Pilotman]

well the answer seems fairly simple, if more costly.  Pay your foreign bank to transfer the  money and stop using Transferwise. Yet again the World's banks triumph. 

[jacko45k]

8 minutes ago, owl sees all said:

'peer to peer' anyway.

In Pattaya it means Walking St.. it goes pier to pier.

[SooKee]

1 minute ago, xylophone said:

Good plan.......let us know how it goes.

 

As for the BKK bank funds transferred from London, well they operate this service and they have an account which I believe is just an "extension'' (not an actual branch) so it may come to another clearing bank (which I doubt) or it is just tied in to an account here in Thailand, so doesn't show up as an international transfer..........great if it did!!

Yeah I'm aware of the BKK Bank London service, just registered for it, I've not used it yet as again, I only registered for it as an option.  I've seen other posters say that using that service it does show up as international though.  For you it hasn't?  Could be another dead-end option if that is the case.

 

But you're saying that you've had Transferwise transfers to Bangkok Bank also not show as international right?  Only asking as yours is the first post I've seen that indicates that may have happened often, but that depends how many transactions your'e talking about.

[wgdanson]

6 hours ago, simon43 said:

 

 

 

Nope!  It is a local funds transfer.  You send money to a local bank account in your home country.  The recipient then calls up his contact in Thailand and says 'drop xxx baht into Mr yyy's account'.  

 

There is no international movement of funds.  Your funds are still in your home country.

 

Transferwise seems to be a good system for crediting funds in your Thai bank account.  But these Hundi types of system are 'informal' - they are not recognised by the banking system and IMHO, they should not be recognised by the IOs as an international funds transfer.

They ARE recognised by Bangkok Bank quite rightly as International Transfers, and should therefore be recognised by IOs.

[wgdanson]

12 minutes ago, Pilotman said:

well the answer seems fairly simple, if more costly.  Pay your foreign bank to transfer the  money and stop using Transferwise. Yet again the World's banks triumph. 

Free with First Direct. 3 hours from them to an FTT in my Bkk Bank. Roughly the same amount arriving as with T'wise.

[xylophone]

10 minutes ago, SooKee said:

 

But you're saying that you've had Transferwise transfers to Bangkok Bank also not show as international right?  Only asking as yours is the first post I've seen that indicates that may have happened often, but that depends how many transactions your'e talking about.

No SooKee I don't have a TW account, and thought of opening one, BUT posters report different outcomes when they review their bank statements after using TW..........some notations say International Transfers (or similar) others don't????????

[owl sees all]

8 minutes ago, xylophone said:

No SooKee I don't have a TW account, and thought of opening one, BUT posters report different outcomes when they review their bank statements after using TW..........some notations say International Transfers (or similar) others don't????????

Open one up and try for yourself. If the Thai banks are different to the other posters you could come up trumps.

 

I joined TW right at the start. They lost their Thai agent in the early days, and stopped business. After 6 months they were on the go again. Trouble-free since.

 

This is reletively early days for 'peer to peer'. I'm sure others will join in soon.

 

Try: Azimo, Currency Direct, currencyfair, and Dee (I've recently registered with them). Just send a tenner. Suck it and see. It's the best way to find out.

[SooKee]

A

11 minutes ago, xylophone said:

No SooKee I don't have a TW account, and thought of opening one, BUT posters report different outcomes when they review their bank statements after using TW..........some notations say International Transfers (or similar) others don't????????

Ah I see, I misread your first para WRT 'does not show' as you having tried Transferwise to Bangkok Bank and had it fail.

 

Upshot is if you use a bank other Bangkok Bank it seems highly likely your funds will not show as international (and always will if you don't use one of their other two partner banks - Kasikorn and TMB).  Even if you use one of the other partner banks it seems less rather than more likely that it will show up as a local transfer unless they use that bank as their depositing bank.

 

Still no guarantee with Bangkok Bank but at least it seems much less likely that transfers will show as domestic but, we'll see, I've only just started using them.  It was just your post that made me wonder as it seemed you were saying TW does not show as international when you used them to TX to Bangkok Bank.

[jacko45k]

18 minutes ago, xylophone said:

No SooKee I don't have a TW account, and thought of opening one, BUT posters report different outcomes when they review their bank statements after using TW..........some notations say International Transfers (or similar) others don't????????

Made 2 TW transfers to Bangkok Bank, one was, one wasn't shown as International.

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, wgdanson said:

Did Immigration not say they will be 'lenient' this first year? And if, like me, you do 65k every month as an FTT, why would there be any residual top-up.

And by doing it monthly you could possible even out some of the exchange rate differences, it can go up as well as down. You can get an alert from Transferwise either daily, or when your currency reaches a certain level. You don't have to transfer via T'wise.

Yes but there is no definition of "lenient". No way to know what that will mean and certainly no guarantee that they would accept just a few months worth of transfers.

 

I can get 61-62K transferred directly by Social Security with no outgoing transfer fee. So the SWIFT transfer fee would be solely for an additional 3-4,000 baht and seems ridiculous to pay $45 for that.

 

I could have SS deposit in my US account and make a transfer of the whole 65k but same difference. Either way I am paying $45 just to get a few thousand baht more sent here.

 

I also do not want to have to keep track of exchange rates.

 

Just parking the 800k is easier. Only 1 transfer fee, only one time that I need to calculate exchange rate etc.

[wgdanson]

1 minute ago, Sheryl said:

Yes but there is no definition of "lenient". No way to know what that will mean and certainly no guarantee that they would accept just a few months worth of transfers.

 

I can get 61-62K transferred directly by Social Security with no outgoing transfer fee. So the SWIFT transfer fee would be solely for an additional 3-4,000 baht and seems ridiculous to pay $45 for that.

 

I could have SS deposit in my US account and make a transfer of the whole 65k but same difference. Either way I am paying $45 just to get a few thousand baht more sent here.

 

I also do not want to have to keep track of exchange rates.

 

Just parking the 800k is easier. Only 1 transfer fee, only one time that I need to calculate exchange rate etc.

Here's an idea Sheryl. You send £1600 ($2092) to MY First Direct account in UK every month, and I will send it to your Bkk Bank, free of charge, guaranteed FTT.     LOL

[mngmn]

Worse problem trying to explain to IO where all these local deposits come from. Must be illegally working in Thailand right?

[55Jay]

6 hours ago, onera1961 said:

Then how does Transferwise have money in their Thai banks. Do their reps travel all over the world, carrying suitcases full of Euro/Pound/Dollar and convert in the local market and then deposit those as cash in their local banks?

 

The IOS need to be educated and they should look beyond their narrow focus. And all Transferwise transfers must be accepted. If not, let there be a revolution. People need to organize and start a peaceful revolution. When Gandhi or MLK could overthrow centuries old colonial system and segregation, TI is nothing. Stop posting in TVF and start organizing. Let some leaders emerge and show the TI the proper path and how to formulate a retirement system. 

Sorry, cant join the revolution. I only live here for 6-months in a year on an O-A visa. Leaving Thailand next month for my three month vacation in Las Vegas and then to Benidorm for another three months until Schengen rule kicks me out. 

Come on guys, get in there and fight!  ????

[owl sees all]

3 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

Here's an idea Sheryl. You send £1600 ($2092) to MY First Direct account in UK every month, and I will send it to your Bkk Bank, free of charge, guaranteed FTT.     LOL

This could be the start of a new business.

 

Find someone who wants to send dosh from Thailand to UK. Then the other way. And do the deal. Can use TVForum PM service.

[farangx]

32 minutes ago, mngmn said:

Worse problem trying to explain to IO where all these local deposits come from. Must be illegally working in Thailand right?

Or wrongly credited since these are local deposits when they are "supposedly" foreign transfers.

[sfokevin]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

Yes but there is no definition of "lenient". No way to know what that will mean and certainly no guarantee that they would accept just a few months worth of transfers.

 

I can get 61-62K transferred directly by Social Security with no outgoing transfer fee. So the SWIFT transfer fee would be solely for an additional 3-4,000 baht and seems ridiculous to pay $45 for that.

 

I could have SS deposit in my US account and make a transfer of the whole 65k but same difference. Either way I am paying $45 just to get a few thousand baht more sent here.

 

I also do not want to have to keep track of exchange rates.

 

Just parking the 800k is easier. Only 1 transfer fee, only one time that I need to calculate exchange rate etc.

If the combo method is still available you should only need to keep 50-100k in a fixed account to markup the monthly SS deficit...

 

62k x 12 = 744k plus 100k fixed account = 844k

(Cushion for exchange rate)

No one has confirmed the combo method under the new rules but the last police order seems to specifically refer to the use of the combo method in clause 5...

Edited February 4, 2019 by sfokevin

[Sheryl]

1 minute ago, sfokevin said:

If the combo method is still available you should only need to keep 50-100k in a fixed account to markup the monthly SS deficit... and the last police order seems to specifically refer to the use of the combo method in clause 5...

Yes, but the criteria are very, very unclear. At least 2 different interpretations floating around including one that says the fixed amount can't be less than 400K.

 

Basically no one knows.

 

there is even a report from one quarter that the whole business might refer only to first time extensions in which no issue.

 

But again, no one knows for sure. What had been listed does nto specify new extensions only.

[sfokevin]

There seems to be quite a few acorns being thrown in the air right now... ????

Edited February 4, 2019 by sfokevin

[xylophone]

2 hours ago, owl sees all said:

Suck it and see. It's the best way to find out.

That's what my mate tells all the girls!!!

[xylophone]

2 hours ago, wgdanson said:

Here's an idea Sheryl. You send £1600 ($2092) to MY First Direct account in UK every month, and I will send it to your Bkk Bank, free of charge, guaranteed FTT.     LOL

Seems like a nice boy!!