Digital nomad - visa and work permit

[jacob29]

On 2/6/2019 at 9:10 PM, LivinLOS said:

Only hope that it doesnt go wrong, while at the same time not contributing to the country in which you appear to wish to live.. I guess poor brown kids dont need to go to good schools hey ?? 

You should just stick to the legal angle. I imagine a good number of illegal workers contribute considerably more than backpackers or retirees, making it a strange angle to come at the issue from.

 

While I know we are only guests that should be held to a higher standard, I hope you similarly express your disapproval at all the Thai workers taking cash-in hand payments skirting the tax system. Especially 'those' workers who visit a foreign country for a few weeks at a time, not paying taxes on income derived during their visit. Very unethical of them.

Edited March 9, 2019 by jacob29

[Enki]

On 2/6/2019 at 6:48 AM, ExpatDraco said:

I wonder if you could go for PR after 3 years of Iglu?

Yes, why not?

[Enki]

On 2/7/2019 at 5:27 AM, overherebc said:

Before or after setting up the company?

Before ... from outside of Thailand.

[JackThompson]

Bottom line: It is not the small portion of Iglu's monthly cost that goes to income-tax that is the problem - it is the other 80% or so of the costs - none of which are necessary for most who would like to work remotely for a foreign company while living here, and spending their incomes into the Thai economy.  Unfortunately, one cannot simply pay income-taxes and get an "outsourcing work only" work-permit plus Non-B visa/extension.

[ChiangMaiNomad]

I have several friends in IT who have already obtained Non-B visas and work permits through a new company called Shelter that was recently certified by the Board of Investment (BOI) in Thailand. They take care of your visa and work permit, taxes, int'l health insurance, bank account setup, and more.

 

Their website provides the following requirements:

• Are at least 22 years old
• Have either one of the following:
  • An IT-related university degree, plus at least 2 years of relevant work experience
  • Any type of university/college/school diploma or certificate, plus at least 5 years of relevant work experience
• Work in software development, blockchain, design, marketing, or other online, tech / digital-related activity
• Have an existing business or client base
• Bill a minimum of $2,500 USD per month
• Commit to a one-year contract

 

@Alex80, since your goal is to move to Thailand permanently in the future, Shelter could be a good option for you and other IT professionals wishing to stay in Thailand long-term.

 

Their pricing is similar to Iglu's (who, from the looks of their website, seems not to be accepting new clients).

[Neeranam]

On 2/5/2019 at 12:47 PM, DrJack54 said:

OP you have good answers already. Your looking for 6 months. Very easy many options. Forget about work permit etc. Keep your online work private (very easy). Enter los on perhaps setv. Extend 30 day. Leave country for short trip to say Saigon and obtain setv. Repeat process. Remember you also have visa exempt 30 days which can be extended by 30. Your situation is simple. Forget work permit idea

It is not illegal to work online if the company is operating out of thailand.

Same for online gambling, many professional poker players here. The bet is being made i Isle of Man or Costa. Rica

[mockingbird]

4 hours ago, ChiangMaiNomad said:

I have several friends in IT who have already obtained Non-B visas and work permits through a new company called Shelter that was recently certified by the Board of Investment (BOI) in Thailand. They take care of your visa and work permit, taxes, int'l health insurance, bank account setup, and more.

 

Their website (shelter.global) provides the following requirements:

• Are at least 22 years old
• Have either one of the following:
  • An IT-related university degree, plus at least 2 years of relevant work experience
  • Any type of university/college/school diploma or certificate, plus at least 5 years of relevant work experience
• Work in software development, blockchain, design, marketing, or other online, tech / digital-related activity
• Have an existing business or client base
• Bill a minimum of $2,500 USD per month
• Commit to a one-year contract

 

@Alex80, since your goal is to move to Thailand permanently in the future, Shelter could be a good option for you and other IT professionals wishing to stay in Thailand long-term.

 

Their pricing is similar to Iglu's (who, from the looks of their website, seems not to be accepting new clients).

Looks to be identical to Iglu. They don't mention their charges. I assume it's 30% of the $2,500 (20% for taxes/insurance and 10% for them)

[LivinLOS]

47 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

It is not illegal to work online if the company is operating out of thailand.

Same for online gambling, many professional poker players here. The bet is being made i Isle of Man or Costa. Rica

Thats not how the law works, at all.. but hey you keep on telling yourself that.. 

[elviajero]

2 hours ago, Neeranam said:

It is not illegal to work online if the company is operating out of thailand.

Same for online gambling, many professional poker players here. The bet is being made i Isle of Man or Costa. Rica

Completely wrong.

 

It is illegal to work at any occupation or employment whilst on Thai soil without permission. It doesn’t matter where the company is registered or operating.

 

Online gambling is illegal in Thailand for Thais and foreigners.

[balo]

Nonsense, its the same posters on repeat here.

It's not illegal to turn on your laptop, and send an e-mail to your work colleagues in Europe. 
It's not illegal to call someone on Skype/ Facebook or another phone app to discuss a business outside of Thailand.
It's not illegal to write a document while you're on holiday in Thailand , and send the same document back to your office in Europe via mail. 

If your job is in Europe/ US/  and you have en extended holiday in Thailand, on a tourist visa, doing tourist activities, it's not illegal to communicate with your business back in Europe/US etc. 

But the same posters will continue to tell you how dangerous it can be for you without a WP.  
 

Edited November 13, 2019 by balo

[jackdd]

12 hours ago, ChiangMaiNomad said:

Their website () provides the following requirements:

• Are at least 22 years old
• Have either one of the following:
  • An IT-related university degree, plus at least 2 years of relevant work experience
  • Any type of university/college/school diploma or certificate, plus at least 5 years of relevant work experience
• Work in software development, blockchain, design, marketing, or other online, tech / digital-related activity
• Have an existing business or client base
• Bill a minimum of $2,500 USD per month
• Commit to a one-year contract

Their website looks like a scam, no address, no phone number, no email, just some pictures somebody found on Google.

[Caldera]

6 minutes ago, jackdd said:

Their website looks like a scam, no address, no phone number, no email, just some pictures somebody found on Google.

That thought has crossed my mind as well, also because the wording on that site pretty much exactly matches Iglu's.

[balo]

12 hours ago, ChiangMaiNomad said:

I have several friends in IT who have already obtained Non-B visas and work permits through a new company called Shelter

Maybe you should explain yourself, we think this is a scam . And you have only 1 post on this forum. 

[LivinLOS]

1 hour ago, balo said:

Nonsense, its the same posters on repeat here.

It's not illegal to turn on your laptop, and send an e-mail to your work colleagues in Europe. 
It's not illegal to call someone on Skype/ Facebook or another phone app to discuss a business outside of Thailand.
It's not illegal to write a document while you're on holiday in Thailand , and send the same document back to your office in Europe via mail. 

If your job is in Europe/ US/  and you have en extended holiday in Thailand, on a tourist visa, doing tourist activities, it's not illegal to communicate with your business back in Europe/US etc. 

But the same posters will continue to tell you how dangerous it can be for you without a WP.  
 

The labour department and employment office consistently says otherwise. Enforcement of this is not a priority I readily admit. 

Any nomad who says different.. Lets test it, I can take full documentary evidence and (with your permission) report you to the labour department as working in Thailand, as its not illegal according to you nothing will happen. 

[RedPill]

1 hour ago, balo said:

But the same posters will continue to tell you how dangerous it can be for you without a WP.  

That's because it is ... too many whistleblowers around.

 

Maybe an angry Thai girl, but most likely a fellow expat Farang, who for whatever reason is more than happy to report you if you get into clinch with someone.

 

Also, you can read on this forum how many posters would be more than willing and happily report any Farang if they don't comply with the holy laws of Thailand.

 

I've seen an experienced threats like this in real before towards myself (only for silly voluntary work).

 

It's unbelievable, but those people exist and are among us.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 13, 2019 by RedPill

[jackdd]

22 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

The labour department and employment office consistently says otherwise. Enforcement of this is not a priority I readily admit. 

Any nomad who says different.. Lets test it, I can take full documentary evidence and (with your permission) report you to the labour department as working in Thailand, as its not illegal according to you nothing will happen. 

We all know this is Thailand and enforcement can vary any day, so it's unterstandably if nobody wants to take such a risk.

 

But as suggested on several occasions before, there is an easier way to prove your point, without you having to get personally involved with anybody: There are many coworking spaces in Thailand, where it's easy to find many foreigners on tourist visas working online. Report one (or all if you feel bored) to Immigration. If they should raid one it will make the news, and we will know if they arrested / deported somebody or if they say what the people are doing there isn't considered illegal.

 

Since you are willing to invest many hours to get personally involved with somebody, you should have no problems to spend 30 minutes at the immigration office to inform them of the illegal work at such a place. Let's give immigration police some time, i think 3 months is a reasonable time frame. So if within three months time we don't see any news about such a raid with people being arrested and deported you can stop posting that it's illegal.

Edited November 13, 2019 by jackdd

[DeadFlagBlues]

15 hours ago, ChiangMaiNomad said:

I have several friends in IT who have already obtained Non-B visas and work permits through a new company called Shelter that was recently certified by the Board of Investment (BOI) in Thailand. They take care of your visa and work permit, taxes, int'l health insurance, bank account setup, and more.

 

Their website (shelter.global) provides the following requirements:

• Are at least 22 years old
• Have either one of the following:
  • An IT-related university degree, plus at least 2 years of relevant work experience
  • Any type of university/college/school diploma or certificate, plus at least 5 years of relevant work experience
• Work in software development, blockchain, design, marketing, or other online, tech / digital-related activity
• Have an existing business or client base
• Bill a minimum of $2,500 USD per month
• Commit to a one-year contract

 

@Alex80, since your goal is to move to Thailand permanently in the future, Shelter could be a good option for you and other IT professionals wishing to stay in Thailand long-term.

 

Their pricing is similar to Iglu's (who, from the looks of their website, seems not to be accepting new clients).

This is obviously an advertisement for that website. There is no contact details on the site,  only the option to subscribe i.e it's harvesting email addresses.

 

It looks like Iglu are attempting a comeback under another name. 

[elviajero]

8 hours ago, balo said:

Nonsense, its the same posters on repeat here.

It's not illegal to turn on your laptop, and send an e-mail to your work colleagues in Europe. 
It's not illegal to call someone on Skype/ Facebook or another phone app to discuss a business outside of Thailand.
It's not illegal to write a document while you're on holiday in Thailand , and send the same document back to your office in Europe via mail. 

If your job is in Europe/ US/  and you have en extended holiday in Thailand, on a tourist visa, doing tourist activities, it's not illegal to communicate with your business back in Europe/US etc. 

But the same posters will continue to tell you how dangerous it can be for you without a WP.  

You are giving false information. ANY work in Thailand requires permission. It's the law. You can deny that all you like, but it's fact. 

 

The fact that the Thai authorities are happy for tourists to 'work' while on holiday doesn't change the law. It would be ridiculous for them to prosecute holiday makers for 'working' while on holiday, which is why they take a pragmatic view and don't. 

 

I run two businesses and employ foreigners. I've had many conversations with immigration and the labour offices I deal with on this subject. You?

[Neeranam]

18 hours ago, elviajero said:

Completely wrong.

 

It is illegal to work at any occupation or employment whilst on Thai soil without permission. It doesn’t matter where the company is registered or operating.

 

Online gambling is illegal in Thailand for Thais and foreigners.

I did extensive research a few years ago, including the Ladbrokes legal department, who had their webzite in Thai. Pokerstars also confirmed Thai players are legal. 

But gambling is not work, for most.

 

[scottiddled]

It's interesting how the digital nomad issue and the long-term tourist issue interact. It's a changing world. Before, few people beyond the rich and the retired could reasonably be a tourist for more than a few months. Maybe academics on sabbatical or creative types (e.g., novelists). But even those breaks theoretically involve some form of work. Now you add working online and the rise of "gap years" and it's a real thing.  Almost anyone middle class or higher can be a full-time (or almost full-time) tourist for periods beyond what Thai visa laws are really built for.

 

It's also interesting how a consistent group of grumpier posters here serve as "guardians of the law" on both fronts. They'll take firm stances that digital nomads are technically breaking the law and that long-stay tourists are bending it (or "not tourists"). The reality is that the law isn't really clear on either issue, and Thai authorities exercise discretion (sometimes poorly). Clarity on the digital nomad thing would help, as it's poor policy to exclude someone who would make a real economic contribution without taking any Thai's job. It's even poor policy having some nomads *fear* that it could be an issue, as it incentivizes them to go elsewhere. Clarity on what Thai authorities consider "living in Thailand on tourist visas (and/or exempt stamps)" would be useful, too. But methinks clarity there is only half the battle. Thailand needs to rethink its take on what counts as tourism. Unless someone's legitimately taking a Thai job, it's good policy to let them lawfully explore your country for 6 months or so without hassles, if that's what they want. Even the U.S. grants 6 month upon entry for those with a visa. It doesn't matter if they've saved up and are taking a gap year, are writing a novel, or spend ~3 hours a day grading papers as an online teacher for a non-Thai university. They're pouring money into the economy and are more tourist than not. 

 

And no, the Elite visa is not the answer. 

 

Or, Thailand can go the other direction: vague rules, inconsistent enforcement, "discretion," TMs all day long, and a collapsing/overbuilt housing market.

 

 

 

 

[elviajero]

2 hours ago, Neeranam said:

I did extensive research a few years ago, including the Ladbrokes legal department, who had their webzite in Thai. Pokerstars also confirmed Thai players are legal. 

But gambling is not work, for most.

The 1935 Gambling Act stipulates what forms of gambling are acceptable. Currently that is only the Thai lottery and local horse racing.

 

If you are sat on Thai soil whilst gambling — even online — it is illegal. 
 

Most online gambling sites are blocked from inside Thailand. And many reputable sites will not open accounts — even for a non-Thai — if they detect the person is inside Thailand.

 

A Thai living outside of Thailand would not have a problem opening an account with most sites, or gambling online — subject to local law.
 

It’s the physical location whilst gambling that counts, not the location of a foreign server.

[Neeranam]

37 minutes ago, elviajero said:

The 1935 Gambling Act stipulates what forms of gambling are acceptable. Currently that is only the Thai lottery and local horse racing.

 

If you are sat on Thai soil whilst gambling — even online — it is illegal. 
 

Most online gambling sites are blocked from inside Thailand. And many reputable sites will not open accounts — even for a non-Thai — if they detect the person is inside Thailand.

 

A Thai living outside of Thailand would not have a problem opening an account with most sites, or gambling online — subject to local law.
 

It’s the physical location whilst gambling that counts, not the location of a foreign server.

Firstly, ive read the thai gamblomg act and as you say it is over 80 years old.

There are no laws relaring to online gambling.

If you can find any links to someone using a large site like Ladbrokes, I'd  love to see it.

Many people seem very scared by this law,  yet the gine for gambling illegally is only 1000 baht.

https://sites.google.com/site/gamblingthai/home/europebet/ladbrokes

 

[PST]

So a non Thai who has a business in Thailand, but can't work at the premises due to no work permit, but takes care of the social media for his business from home is technically working?.

 

PST.

[Neeranam]

Regarding teachers, I'll ask my old friend Swedish George, who is working with Andrew Biggs online school.

Edited November 14, 2019 by Neeranam

[elviajero]

43 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Firstly, ive read the thai gamblomg act and as you say it is over 80 years old.

There are no laws relaring to online gambling.

“Online gambling” is gambling. All gambling is illegal unless exempt. Only the Thai lottery and horse racing are exempt.

 

43 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Many people seem very scared by this law,  yet the gine for gambling illegally is only 1000 baht.

https://sites.google.com/site/gamblingthai/home/europebet/ladbrokes

You can be locked up for 1 year too.

 

I don’t think the authorities would prosecute any foreigner found to be gambling online. But that doesn’t change the fact that it is illegal, and it’s important people are not misinformed otherwise.

[Neeranam]

5 minutes ago, elviajero said:

“Online gambling” is gambling. All gambling is illegal unless exempt. Only the Thai lottery and horse racing are exempt.

 

You can be locked up for 1 year too.

 

I don’t think the authorities would prosecute any foreigner found to be gambling online. But that doesn’t change the fact that it is illegal, and it’s important people are not misinformed otherwise.

Of course they wouldn't. I once asked a police commissioner and he said there is no law against it. 

Actually i was arrested once for playing cards in a bar,  taken to the station, but let off.

[balo]

20 hours ago, LivinLOS said:

Any nomad who says different.. Lets test it, I can take full documentary evidence and (with your permission) report you to the labour department as working in Thailand, as its not illegal according to you nothing will happen. 

If you really want to test this, I suggest you ask your contacts in the police to do a raid on one of the many co-working spaces in Bangkok or Chiang Mai, 50% of them are foreigners here on extended holidays. 

So please go ahead and we can read about the outcome in the news. they have been operating for more then 5 years now. 

I work from home myself, but the younger generation like to meet and be a part of a network for a few months, then they move on to another location. That's what's it like being a digital nomad. 

 

 

Edited November 14, 2019 by balo

[balo]

13 hours ago, elviajero said:

I run two businesses and employ foreigners. I've had many conversations with immigration and the labour offices I deal with on this subject. You?

You are not interesting , because you run a business and employ foreigners. The complete opposite of how digital nomads are operating.

We all know the law, but we also know that we've had acceptance from immigration officers when asked about this in the past, especially in Chiang Mai. 

Again if you want to report me for sending an e-mail from Thailand to a a business I run in Europe, I would probably need a lawyer to clear my name, since this is Thailand and you never know what kind of situation you will face, but I feel confident I have done nothing wrong. As 100 000 +++ others, visiting Thailand every year, bringing their laptop on an extended holiday.
  


 

Edited November 14, 2019 by balo

[elviajero]

5 minutes ago, balo said:

You are not interesting , because you run a business and employ foreigners. The complete opposite of how digital nomads are operating.

I run an IT business and was a "Digital Nomad" long before someone came up with the name. So my actual experience and conversations with immigration/department of labour are relevant.

 

5 minutes ago, balo said:

We all know the law, but we also know that we've had acceptance from immigration officers when asked about this in the past, especially in Chiang Mai. 

You clearly don't know the law. 

 

You are confusing the authorities tolerance of DN's and others working on holiday. A DN that has been in the country for months years is not on holiday and is on very dodgy ground. Typical tourists keeping up with work emails etc. whilst on holiday don't have a problem.

 

There has never been one person in authority that has claimed or confirmed that online work is legal. All they have done is confirm that short term visitors holidaying in the country can 'work' whilst on holiday and will not be prosecuted.

 

5 minutes ago, balo said:

Again if you want to report me for sending an e-mail from Thailand to a a business I run in Europe, I would probably need a lawyer to clear my name, since this is Thailand and you never know what kind of situation you will face, but I feel confident I have done nothing wrong. As 100 000 +++ others, visiting Thailand every year, bringing their laptop on an extended holiday.

I don't want to report anyone. I just give balance to the misinformation spread by people like you.

[balo]

9 hours ago, elviajero said:

You are confusing the authorities tolerance of DN's and others working on holiday. A DN that has been in the country for months years is not on holiday and is on very dodgy ground. Typical tourists keeping up with work emails etc. whilst on holiday don't have a problem.

Then you should accept it instead of always bring up the Thai law in threads like this. 
Most nomads only stay here from weeks up to a few months. More than 6 months will be a problem, most nomads understand it and will move on to the next country.  

Edited November 14, 2019 by balo