EU rebuffs May, says no-plan Brexiteers deserve 'place in hell'

[damascase]

5 hours ago, Spidey said:

..............

Unfortunately, if you ain't in the club, you don't get a vote. Which is why I've always maintained that it would be better to remain than leave. It's far better to be inside the tent pissing out than outside the tent pissing in. I'm very disappointed in the British electorate, I always saw us as a nation that stayed and fought rather than ran and hid.

I wouldn’t be surprised if, by now, many in the EU would look at British Membership as being inside the tent and pissing in it..........

[Basil B]

[melvinmelvin]

3 hours ago, wayned said:

Maybe Teresa May and Donald Trump should get married and go help out Nicolas Maduro in Venezuela!=, or start there own country in Antarctica ruling penguins and seals!  Neither one are fit for their current positions!

undesirable relationship - no future

they have way too many personality traits in common that are best hidden

 

 

[welovesundaysatspace]

9 minutes ago, damascase said:

I wouldn’t be surprised if, by now, many in the EU would look at British Membership as being inside the tent and pissing in it..........

Like this?

[nauseus]

6 hours ago, Spidey said:

No, remainers, quite rightly, stated that Junker could be removed by European voters in the same way that May could be removed by British voters.

 

Unfortunately, if you ain't in the club, you don't get a vote. Which is why I've always maintained that it would be better to remain than leave. It's far better to be inside the tent pissing out than outside the tent pissing in. I'm very disappointed in the British electorate, I always saw us as a nation that stayed and fought rather than ran and hid.

More cods - Cameron couldn't even block him when he was "proposed" - the UK was winning very little in the EU. We'll be bigger winners away from Club Corrupt.

[Spidey]

4 hours ago, rixalex said:

Secondly, they are relying on their MEP being able to win the support of the MEPs from 27 other nations, and seriously, what is the chance of that?

 

That's democracy. You either want democracy or you don't. Make your mind up.

[Spidey]

4 hours ago, rixalex said:

Spidey claiming Juncker could be removed in the same way as May.

 

As stated, if no MEPs are campaigning to remove him, what does the voter do then? Can you name any MEPs who have pledged to remove him?

Nigel Farage.

[Spidey]

1 hour ago, evadgib said:

Somewhat mute, given they're all British ????

As we are all Europeans.

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, Nigel Garvie said:

I was very surprised that this somewhat unedifying dispute carried on after the above post clearly answers the question.

Addressing this to the leavers who are animated by this dispute, let me try a slightly different way. Forgetting distortions bought about by FPTP etc, your vote has an impact directly proportional to the number of people voting. If you are voting for the election of a new village bowling club treasurer it may have a big weight, less so in council elections, less so in UK elections, less so again in EU elections. No one with half a brain is disputing that your vote has less impact in EU elections than in UK elections, the contention was - as I understood it -  that the method of voting is essentially the same. It is democracy but on a larger scale. Surely it is hard to argue with that, it should be self evident.

 

No argument with that except that the versions and definitions of "democracy" are rather different in the EU, compared to the UK. Each vote for MEP's has far less direct effect on the final proposal/selection of those who take the main positions of power in the EU than those in the UK. The power and effect of the people's individual votes is much less in the EU.

[evadgib]

21 minutes ago, Spidey said:

As we are all Europeans.

Which won't stop on 29 March and has no bearing on my point.

[JAG]

"Hell is where the cooks are British, the police are German, the mechanics are French, the lovers are Belgian,  everything is organized by the Italians and your permanent dinner table companions are senior EU political figures..."

 

If I may paraphrase an old joke!

[7by7]

7 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

it is simply not true. Boris went for the job and knew he wouldn't get the required votes to win, knowing many in his party are remainers. History has shown that to be true.

Cowards. Where is your evidence for that? Gove a back stabber for sure.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/30/boris-johnson-rules-himself-out-of-tory-leadership-race-brexit-eu-referendum

Gove stabbed Johnson in the back, for sure; then chickened out and withdrew.

 

Johnson gave a convincing argument for his withdrawal. Very much like the convincing argument he gave for Remain, before deciding supporting Leave was more politically advantageous for him!

 

Now he is saying that he regrets his withdrawal; Boris Johnson says he regrets quitting 2016 Tory leadership race. Note he refused to comment on his real reason for withdrawing:

Quote

Asked whether the lack of sufficient support was his reason for “bottling” the race, Johnson said: “There is no point crying over spilt milk. The key point is to get on and look at where we are today, and there is no vacancy today.”

 

The real reason for his losing his bottle is clear to anyone with half a brain who has paid any attention at all to his career. We will either leave with May's deal, or no deal (unless Parliament comes to it's senses and gives the people the final say and the people base their vote on what's best for the country rather than xenophobia). Good ol' Boris can then come riding to the rescue to sort out the mess.

 

The mess he played a large part in creating when, along with his fellow Leavers, he campaigned for Leave with zero idea of what to do if Leave won!

[Laughing Gravy]

14 hours ago, 7by7 said:

The real reason for his losing his bottle is clear to anyone with half a brain who has paid any attention at all to his career. We will either leave with May's deal, or no deal (unless Parliament comes to it's senses and gives the people the final say and the people base their vote on what's best for the country rather than xenophobia). Good ol' Boris can then come riding to the rescue to sort out the mess.

So people voted leave are xenophobia, please you are embarrassing yourself. As people use less than half of their brains which half are you using, as you seem to be a clairvoyant.????

[rixalex]

bah bah bah
what a totally hopeless argument and discussion
if if if if - if my aunt had a pecker she would have been my uncle
 
the tool you have is your vote
can be used against Tory May in UK
can be used against Juncker in EP
 

What are you talking about?

How exactly can I vote against Juncker if no MEPs are calling for him to be removed?

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[rixalex]

Nigel Farage.

When has Nigel Farage pledged to remove Juncker? Nigel Farage wants no part of the EU. I don't imagine he cares that much who is President of a club he wants out of. The question remains, who can I vote for if I want Juncker out of office?

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[rixalex]

I am little on the brain slow side and can't quite understand your reasoning, could you be so kind to elaborate how the English people can vote May out, quite curious about it

Far be it for me to state your brain is slow, but as has been stated multiple times, voting May out is achieved very simply by not voting for a party she leads.

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[rixalex]

That's democracy. You either want democracy or you don't. Make your mind up.

Being powerless to remove a President from a club my country belongs to might be your sort of democracy. It's not mine.

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[Spidey]

1 minute ago, rixalex said:

Being powerless to remove a President from a club my country belongs to might be your sort of democracy. It's not mine.

Sent from my SM-G610F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

You've had it explained to you, on numerous occasions that you can remove the president. As with the US in 2020. There's no helping some people.

[nauseus]

3 hours ago, Spidey said:

You've had it explained to you, on numerous occasions that you can remove the president. As with the US in 2020. There's no helping some people.

More cods. This year his term has to end anyway. He cannot and won't be voted out. His place will be taken by another "nominee" after "approval" by an EU Parliament majority, a process which involves selection followed by approval but not election - easy for the EPP to deal with enough other groups to obtain over 50% for both stages - maybe not so easy after the May EP elections but I'm sure they'll swing it their way next time. 

 

The Spitzenkandidaten system was affected last time due to a several disputes (mainly involving German domestic politics) but finally ended up in Juncker's favour, almost accidentally. Again, Merkel seems to have had significant influence. I was just thinking: if only the UK could influence the EU as much as Germany! But now we have, finally, with Brexit!

 

I finally found a good read from the Rabid Remainers Rag of choice:

 

The https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/27/eu-democratic-bandwagon-juncker-president-wanted

[Mavideol]

On 2/9/2019 at 2:51 PM, Spidey said:

As we are all Europeans.

they are an island for God's sake, they never considered themselves Europeans, don't give them too much credit, let them be

[Mavideol]

7 hours ago, rixalex said:

Far be it for me to state your brain is slow, but as has been stated multiple times, voting May out is achieved very simply by not voting for a party she leads.

Sent from my SM-G610F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

so you are not voting HER our,  just barely voting for her party out, like they here Not same same

[7by7]

11 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

So people voted leave are xenophobia, please you are embarrassing yourself. As people use less than half of their brains which half are you using, as you seem to be a clairvoyant.????

 

Do you actually live here? If not, that's probably why you don't know what a large part of Leave's referendum campaigning consisted of; or maybe you do live here but have simply chosen to ignore it.

 

A significant part of the leave campaign, both the official one and Farage's unofficial one, was about how those nasty foreigners across the channel, especially the Germans, tell us what to do and leaving the EU would mean taking our sovereignty back from said foreigners. 

 

In addition, there was the raft of anti immigration propaganda from both campaigns; Farage's being more blatant than the official campaign's, but there in both.

 

Are you really saying that none of this xenophobic campaigning had any effect? Really? Had you been in the UK and/or paying attention at the time you would know that this man was far from alone in his reason for voting Leave.

 

 

I assume you know enough to realise that all this actually has nothing to do with the EU!

 

In the two years plus since the referendum, the real pros and cons of EU membership have been discussed ad nauseum in the UK media.  The fact that no one in the Leave campaign had any idea about how to continue trading with our largest partner, the EU, let alone the rest of the world most of whom we traded with via agreements made with the EU, should we leave pretty quickly became obvious. The UK public are far more educated on the realities of Remain and Leave; although there are doubtless still those like the above man whose xenophobia is so strong that they will once again ignore the real issues should Parliament take the democratic option of giving the people the final say.

 

 

 

 

[Spidey]

50 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

they are an island for God's sake, they never considered themselves Europeans, don't give them too much credit, let them be

There's a tunnel now.

[Spidey]

17 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

Do you actually live here? If not, that's probably why you don't know what a large part of Leave's referendum campaigning consisted of; or maybe you do live here but have simply chosen to ignore it.

 

A significant part of the leave campaign, both the official one and Farage's unofficial one, was about how those nasty foreigners across the channel, especially the Germans, tell us what to do and leaving the EU would mean taking our sovereignty back from said foreigners. 

 

In addition, there was the raft of anti immigration propaganda from both campaigns; Farage's being more blatant than the official campaign's, but there in both.

 

Are you really saying that none of this xenophobic campaigning had any effect? Really? Had you been in the UK and/or paying attention at the time you would know that this man was far from alone in his reason for voting Leave.

 

 

I assume you know enough to realise that all this actually has nothing to do with the EU!

 

In the two years plus since the referendum, the real pros and cons of EU membership have been discussed ad nauseum in the UK media.  The fact that no one in the Leave campaign had any idea about how to continue trading with our largest partner, the EU, let alone the rest of the world most of whom we traded with via agreements made with the EU, should we leave pretty quickly became obvious. The UK public are far more educated on the realities of Remain and Leave; although there are doubtless still those like the above man whose xenophobia is so strong that they will once again ignore the real issues should Parliament take the democratic option of giving the people the final say.

 

 

 

 

Unfortunately, Brexiteers compare quite closely to Trump's "base" even the demography is pretty identical.. Headless chickens who will fall for the BS of a snake oil salesman, who gives them the BS that they want to hear. Muslims out! - leave the EU/ ban them from the US. Johnny Foreigner is taking our jobs, here on benefits, crims - take back control of our borders/build a wall.

 

All pretty identical to Hitler's propaganda in the 30s.

 

When Trump came to power, the sad thing and what I found shocking was the number of US citizens that voted for Trump's BS. What's even more shocking is that an even greater percentage of Brits lapped up the leave campaign's xenophobic BS and actually voted leave.

[melvinmelvin]

21 minutes ago, Spidey said:

There's a tunnel now.

yes,

between UK and Europe

shame on you

 

 

[Spidey]

5 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

yes,

between UK and Europe

shame on you

 

 

Probably fill it in after Brexit to stop all those drug runners, rapists and all round bad hombres sneaking in from Europe at night. Trump builds a wall we fill the tunnel in, equally prudent.

[Loiner]

15 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

I assume you know enough to realise that all this actually has nothing to do with the EU!

 

In the two years plus since the referendum, the real pros and cons of EU membership have been discussed ad nauseum in the UK media. 

Those Africans Syrians and Iraqis don't arrive directly at Heathrow with visas. They come through EU countries, who appear to do little to prevent thousands of them arriving at Calais. 

Merkel's million invited guests from the same sources are definitely an EU created problem. She even wanted to distribute them throughout the EU. No wonder the man in Barnsley and majority of UK voted Leave.

[Spidey]

8 minutes ago, Loiner said:

Those Africans Syrians and Iraqis don't arrive directly at Heathrow with visas. They come through EU countries, who appear to do little to prevent thousands of them arriving at Calais. 

Merkel's million invited guests from the same sources are definitely an EU created problem. She even wanted to distribute them throughout the EU. No wonder the man in Barnsley and majority of UK voted Leave.

Most ofd them come through the Eurotunnel. "Fill it in! Fill it in!". Let's all go bach to the 19th century and MGBGA!

[Denim]

Brexiteers place in hell will be just outside Tusks cage endlessly poking sticks at him to soften him up for Satan's table.

[Loiner]

20 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Unfortunately, Brexiteers compare quite closely to Trump's "base" even the demography is pretty identical.. Headless chickens who will fall for the BS of a snake oil salesman, who gives them the BS that they want to hear. Muslims out! - leave the EU/ ban them from the US. Johnny Foreigner is taking our jobs, here on benefits, crims - take back control of our borders/build a wall.

 

All pretty identical to Hitler's propaganda in the 30s.

 

When Trump came to power, the sad thing and what I found shocking was the number of US citizens that voted for Trump's BS. What's even more shocking is that an even greater percentage of Brits lapped up the leave campaign's xenophobic BS and actually voted leave.

Yep, the Trump voters won their vote too. There's more of us than you i both countries.

I'm even more sadder than you at the way my country has gone. I want to take back control of everything that has been done to it over the past 20 odd years or more by people like you. We have started that with Leaving the EU.