EU rebuffs May, says no-plan Brexiteers deserve 'place in hell'

[whatsupdoc]

6 minutes ago, rixalex said:

"The same way you can get May out of office".

 

The way i can get May out of office is to vote for a party that doesn't have her as leader. Tell me how i can get Juncker out of office? Try to be a little more specific than, "through means of representative democracy", if you can.

 

Alternatively just be honest for a change and admit that the British electorate is powerless to remove him from office. You know. I know it. Everyone knows it. Why lie?

Same old nonsense again and again.

Juncker is voted in by the MEP's. And you could vote for a MEP.

So the British electorate (together with the electorate of the EU27) did (and still does) have influence on who is the EU president.

 

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/faq/8/how-are-the-commission-president-and-commissioners-appointed

 

And the MEP's can send the commission and Juncker home:

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30106491

 

Why are Brexiteers always complaining that the EU is undemocratic and that its leaders are unelected?

Is it that they never bother to google the facts but just listen to the bloke on the barstool next to them????

[Henryford]

Of course there is no Plan because Treason May never had any intention of us leaving the EUSSR.

[LucysDad]

1 hour ago, Spidey said:

Looks like you are going to get your wish after all. Donald Tusk has just offered May a lifeline. Come back with the proposals that Corbyn has offered and we may have a deal. May bit his hand off.

 

So that's remain in the CM/CU, which would mean allowing the free movement of people in Europe, and continuing to impose EU legislation on workers rights, Health and Safety law etc.

 

Sounds good to me. Now remind me, just why did you Luddites want to leave the EU?

 

I am not a Luddite...... a cheap insult befitting your posts..

 

We won the vote to leave to take back control. I have absolutely no  issue in benefitting from some of the good legislation on workers rights etc - but now it will be OUR legislation..... nice work by Corbyn to use the term ‘not worse off’

 

Freedom of movement is already guaranteed for those who currently enjoy it.

[vogie]

17 minutes ago, whatsupdoc said:

Same old nonsense again and again.

Juncker is voted in by the MEP's. And you could vote for a MEP.

So the British electorate (together with the electorate of the EU27) did (and still does) have influence on who is the EU president.

 

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/faq/8/how-are-the-commission-president-and-commissioners-appointed

 

And the MEP's can send the commission and Juncker home:

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30106491

 

Why are Brexiteers always complaining that the EU is undemocratic and that its leaders are unelected?

Is it that they never bother to google the facts but just listen to the bloke on the barstool next to them????

Elected or unelected, it would appear that nobody wanted the walking disaster.

 

To understand Juncker's improbable rise, it is necessary to go back to the 2009 Lisbon Treaty. The former Luxembourg prime minister landed the job by an overwhelming majority because national leaders sleepwalked into a trap laid by federalist schemers in the European parliament and could not summon the will to do anything about it, just as they appear to have overlooked reading the fine print of the legal text that governs Europe.

A catalogue of complacency, negligence, miscalculation and manoeuvring by national leaders over the past nine months conspired to deliver an outcome no one really wanted – Jean-Claude Juncker, Europe's accidental president.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/27/eu-democratic-bandwagon-juncker-president-wanted

[tomacht8]

2 hours ago, rixalex said:

What are you going on about?

 

I have explained how the British public can get May out of office. Please explain by what means the British public can get Juncker out?

Omg.

The britisch public Can Not vote out Junker alone. If Junker got the majority of the other members of the European parliament of the other 27 states. The EU is the voluntary association of sovereign states with the aim of promoting and securing the prosperity of all its members. All EU decisions are always compromises of all 28 member States. The national egotistical anguish is not so much in demand there.

The world is not rotating around the UK alone. 

[brucec64]

On ‎2‎/‎7‎/‎2019 at 8:14 AM, steve187 said:

3 years almost! A deal could have been thrashed out as soon as the referendum result was known. A few meetings and some video conferencing should have had a deal thrashed out in a short period of time. If nothing could be agreed within say 6 months, then we should have walked away, we would be 2 years down the road to a recovery and new trade deals, with decent trading partners not the grater Eu federation pi** takers



What an absolutely naïve statement. You have obviously never negotiated anything more complex than a bar fine.

[nauseus]

6 minutes ago, brucec64 said:

What an absolutely naïve statement. You have obviously never negotiated anything more complex than a bar fine.

Sounds like the voice of experience. ???? 

[evadgib]

Mr Spock this morning:

 

[CG1 Blue]

16 hours ago, Grouse said:

What a lad! Brilliant!

 

Reet Yorkshire analysis!

He started of quite well, but as soon as he said the word 'unicorns' I switched off. Pity he brought it down to playground level rather than keeping it objective. 

[CG1 Blue]

5 hours ago, Spidey said:

Looks like you are going to get your wish after all. Donald Tusk has just offered May a lifeline. Come back with the proposals that Corbyn has offered and we may have a deal. May bit his hand off.

 

So that's remain in the CM/CU, which would mean allowing the free movement of people in Europe, and continuing to impose EU legislation on workers rights, Health and Safety law etc.

 

Sounds good to me. Now remind me, just why did you Luddites want to leave the EU?

Corbyn's plan makes no sense at all. I heard from one of his cabinet ministers that they believe they can have SM/CU and still make trade deals independently. 

 

All he is doing is putting forward impossible proposals and conditions that will never be passed, just to get a shot at No.10

 

[Spidey]

3 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

Corbyn's plan makes no sense at all. I heard from one of his cabinet ministers that they believe they can have SM/CU and still make trade deals independently. 

 

All he is doing is putting forward impossible proposals and conditions that will never be passed, just to get a shot at No.10

 

The EU seemed to like them. Donald Tusk was well impressed. No "special place in hell" for Jeremy.

 

Unfortunately, I don't think that it's got a chance in hell of getting through parliament.

[Grouse]

28 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

He started of quite well, but as soon as he said the word 'unicorns' I switched off. Pity he brought it down to playground level rather than keeping it objective. 

It's worth persevering! I can't abide crap metaphors either ????

[nauseus]

29 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

Corbyn's plan makes no sense at all. I heard from one of his cabinet ministers that they believe they can have SM/CU and still make trade deals independently. 

 

All he is doing is putting forward impossible proposals and conditions that will never be passed, just to get a shot at No.10

 

That Labour - Mission Impossible - they will need Tom Cruise to get into No.10.

[CG1 Blue]

13 minutes ago, Grouse said:

It's worth persevering! I can't abide crap metaphors either ????

Ok, I tried. I made it to just over 5 minutes. Following the unicorns comment we get:

 

'Brainless David Davis'

'No Brexiteer has a plan'

'Not a single post-Brexit plan anywhere'

 

I quit listening after that. Sweeping, unfounded and and offensive statements. He just sounds like a James O'Brien clone. 

 

I can understand remainers enjoying the video, because it plays to their tune. 

 

 

[nabbie]

My foremost thought is to ensure the average people / average nuclear/ average nonnuclear families must have the decent of their living earning and they should continue to co-operate with the rest of Europe. Their working rights and their benefit rights should be protected first regardless whatever the outcome of Brexit will be or revoking A50.      

[Grouse]

26 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

Ok, I tried. I made it to just over 5 minutes. Following the unicorns comment we get:

 

'Brainless David Davis'

'No Brexiteer has a plan'

'Not a single post-Brexit plan anywhere'

 

I quit listening after that. Sweeping, unfounded and and offensive statements. He just sounds like a James O'Brien clone. 

 

I can understand remainers enjoying the video, because it plays to their tune. 

 

 

To this date, NO senior Brexiter has offered a future plan! It's a blindfold deal. Tusk was ABSOLUTELY correct and it's s damning indictment that Brexiters don't see it.

 

We ALL know what you don't want. Nobody knows what you DO want (probably because you haven't been Told yet ????

[melvinmelvin]

guys, what is happening now?

 

May has been in Brussels with her new backstop design,

talking with Juncker - Tusk - Barnier

Today she is in Ireland promoting her new backstop. 

 

OK, but what now?

 

[CG1 Blue]

34 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

guys, what is happening now?

 

May has been in Brussels with her new backstop design,

talking with Juncker - Tusk - Barnier

Today she is in Ireland promoting her new backstop. 

 

OK, but what now?

 

The EU are still saying there is no further negotiation possible on the Withdrawal Agreement. So no change to the backstop is possible according to the EU negotiators, and good ol Leo Varadkar. 

It seems the EU are willing to tweak the Political Declaration to give further assurances around the backstop. But as I understand it, the PD is not legally binding, so to me it sounds like May has wasted her time. 

[Grouse]

8 hours ago, evadgib said:

I thought Epsilon was German for the letter Y and erudite was superglue ????

That is the most intelligent retort I have seen here in a very long time.

 

No way you're a Brexiter, you're secret is safe with me though!

 

????????????????????????

[CG1 Blue]

43 minutes ago, Grouse said:

To this date, NO senior Brexiter has offered a future plan! It's a blindfold deal. Tusk was ABSOLUTELY correct and it's s damning indictment that Brexiters don't see it.

 

We ALL know what you don't want. Nobody knows what you DO want (probably because you haven't been Told yet ????

I think it's more accurate to say that senior Brexiters all have different ideas. Some want a comprehensive FTA (Farage, Redwood), some want Swiss/Norway/EFTA (e.g. Hannan). But ultimately the government are the only ones who can negotiate, and the government are completely split over the plan. And May is simply inept. 

[wabothai]

On 2/7/2019 at 9:24 AM, evadgib said:

I shall wear that with honour????

Now, thats exactly what is wrong with your lot.

Rather death than loosing pride isn't it?

[melvinmelvin]

10 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

I think it's more accurate to say that senior Brexiters all have different ideas. Some want a comprehensive FTA (Farage, Redwood), some want Swiss/Norway/EFTA (e.g. Hannan). But ultimately the government are the only ones who can negotiate, and the government are completely split over the plan. And May is simply inept. 

right ta,

think I sort of understood so much

 

but what is her plan now? re progressing the process?

I learn she wants to postpone decision making in parliament .....

 

 

[CG1 Blue]

36 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

right ta,

think I sort of understood so much

 

but what is her plan now? re progressing the process?

I learn she wants to postpone decision making in parliament .....

 

 

The way she is behaving, I think she could be playing for one of two outcomes - I don't know which:

 

1. running down the clock so that we leave with no deal (which I think is impossible anyway because the Remain majority in Parliament won't allow it)

or 

2. negotiating so poorly that the country gives up and decides to cancel Brexit

 

I suppose the 3rd possibility is that she actually believes she can get the Withdrawal Agreement through Parliament if she keeps trying - which would simply indicate that she lacks intelligence. 

 

 

 

[Nigel Garvie]

Breaking news - SATAN has let it be known that, contrary to previous reports, he cannot provide future accommodation to Brexiteers, Farage and Johnson in particular. We do have SOME standards, he said. 

[Grouse]

3 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

I think it's more accurate to say that senior Brexiters all have different ideas. Some want a comprehensive FTA (Farage, Redwood), some want Swiss/Norway/EFTA (e.g. Hannan). But ultimately the government are the only ones who can negotiate, and the government are completely split over the plan. And May is simply inept. 

So, be responsible; pause until there is cogent, coherent plan. Please?

[CG1 Blue]

9 minutes ago, Grouse said:

So, be responsible; pause until there is cogent, coherent plan. Please?

I would agree with you there.  So long as we had assurances that the pause was not just an attempt to prolong / cancel the Brexit process. 

Also the EU don't want the UK to still be a member when the EU elections begin in May. 

[nauseus]

18 minutes ago, Nigel Garvie said:

Breaking news - SATAN has let it be known that, contrary to previous reports, he cannot provide future accommodation to Brexiteers, Farage and Johnson in particular. We do have SOME standards, he said. 

Yeah, Old Nick said sorry but we're completely booked out with ex EU Commissioners. ????????

[7by7]

I haven't read all 16 pages, so forgive me if these points have been made previously.

 

Tusk didn't express himself very well, but he made a very valid point. After the referendum it soon became obvious that nobody on the Leave side had any idea of what to do now they had won. Maybe they expected to lose?

 

Many (most, all?) Brexiteers are blaming May for the lack of a deal acceptable to Parliament; claiming that as she was a Remainer she is in some way trying to sabotage Brexit.

 

What those people conveniently forget is that when Cameron resigned, no Brexiteer wanted the job! They all saw it for the poisoned chalice which it is. Boris withdrew from the contest, Gove withdrew from the contest; cowards both. They both knew that obtaining a Brexit deal which pleased everybody was impossible; May knew this, too; but unlike them had the guts to try for the best possible compromise.

 

 

[melvinmelvin]

2 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

The way she is behaving, I think she could be playing for one of two outcomes - I don't know which:

 

1. running down the clock so that we leave with no deal (which I think is impossible anyway because the Remain majority in Parliament won't allow it)

or 

2. negotiating so poorly that the country gives up and decides to cancel Brexit

 

I suppose the 3rd possibility is that she actually believes she can get the Withdrawal Agreement through Parliament if she keeps trying - which would simply indicate that she lacks intelligence. 

 

 

 

or maybe she still thinks that there is scope for a new deal in Brussels

[CG1 Blue]

1 hour ago, melvinmelvin said:

or maybe she still thinks that there is scope for a new deal in Brussels

I would like to think there was scope for new new deal. But she doesn't show any signs of being capable of changing course.