Consequences of illegally using 800K for retirement extension after March 1, 2019

[jacko45k]

3 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Yes that should work as long as it's actual income OR you aren't unlucky enough to meet an officer that demands that you prove what that income is if it isn't all actual income. Seems to be an issue already in CM. Doesn't mean it will be widespread but doesn't mean it won't be either. 

Perhaps you and he are now making up requirements. As I live in Pattaya I need to know what happens there. 

Income needs to be money coming into a Thai bank from overseas. 

[ChouDoufu]

7 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

You just offered your own simpler solution. Make 65,000 baht transfers each month. Be capable of showing they came from overseas. You can start spending the money immediately.

yes, but unless i'm mistaken, the income method required income affidavit from an embassy.  that's now changed for 4 nationalities.  think i'll wait to see how various immigration offices go about requiring proof of income, what they consider as income, and and and.

[Jingthing]

Just now, jacko45k said:

Perhaps you and he are now making up requirements. As I live in Pattaya I need to know what happens there. 

Income needs to be money coming into a Thai bank from overseas. 

Things can change. It is logical that if using an income method the safest long term option is to only import funds that are actually income. As a proactive thing. Of course for many that will be under 65K and full income applications over 65K are much more clear right now compared to the current confusing mess surrounding combo applications. So people need to make their own choices about risks they are willing to take. 

[jacko45k]

1 minute ago, ChouDoufu said:

yes, but unless i'm mistaken, the income method required income affidavit from an embassy.  that's now changed for 4 nationalities.  think i'll wait to see how various immigration offices go about requiring proof of income, what they consider as income, and and and.

Yes, you are mistaken. If you can get an Embassy letter, do so. It looks like an easy option these days. 

Income is money coming into a Thai bank from overseas.

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, ChouDoufu said:

yes, but unless i'm mistaken, the income method required income affidavit from an embassy.  that's now changed for 4 nationalities.  think i'll wait to see how various immigration offices go about requiring proof of income, what they consider as income, and and and.

The full income method over 65K baht per month without letter is rather clear already. If you're concern is you can import that but not sure they'll consider all of the income if they ask for backup details, it's a reasonable concern, and frankly there is nobody here that can give you an assurance it won't be a problem in future. If you're in CM it is likely to be a problem though, but CM is but one office. 

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Yes, you are mistaken. If you can get an Embassy letter, do so. It looks like an easy option these days. 

Income is money coming into a Thai bank from overseas.

Last I heard if you can get an embassy letter you might be required to do so, and not able to use the import method. That was one report from an office anyway. Yes the income letter is the way to go if you can get it.

To add for those using embassy letters (lucky people, enjoy that!) be advised that immigration always has had the right and still has the right to demand backup documentation for the income claimed in the letter. Doesn't mean they usually do at most offices, but smart to be prepared for that, and better not to lie.

Edited February 8, 2019 by Jingthing

[farangx]

4 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Perhaps you and he are now making up requirements. As I live in Pattaya I need to know what happens there. 

Income needs to be money coming into a Thai bank from overseas. 

I thought it was really that simple, that transferring more than 65K baht from overseas into a Thai bank account with SWIFT once a month was all that was for the income method.  That is until people here decided to make their own rules. ????

[jacko45k]

1 minute ago, farangx said:

I thought it was really that simple, that transferring more than 65K baht from overseas into a Thai bank account with SWIFT once a month was all that was for the income method.  That is until people here decided to make their own rules. ????

I expect and of course hope that works out for you. 

Don't see why not.

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, farangx said:

I thought it was really that simple, that transferring more than 65K baht from overseas into a Thai bank account with SWIFT once a month was all that was for the income method.  That is until people here decided to make their own rules. ????

It's hard to know. Perhaps immigration are already wise to the recycle the same funds schemes without actual income to back up the transfers people are talking about and they don't like it. BAD GUYS OUT!  Then some of the SMUG people crowing that they've got this all solved and everyone that doesn't is a pathetic loser that deserves to be booted out might not be so SMUG anymore. 

 

First they came for the … 

Edited February 8, 2019 by Jingthing

[jacko45k]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

It's hard to know. Perhaps immigration are already wise to the recycle the same funds schemes people are talking about and they don't like it. Then some of the SMUG people might not be so SMUG anymore. 

 

First they came for the … 

They got that wise already? Up until last month I thought they just checked for an Embassy letter and stamped it. Perhaps, maybe.....

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

They got that wise already? Up until last month I thought they just checked for an Embassy letter and stamped it. Perhaps, maybe.....

There have been reports of this occasionally happening (checking for backup) for many, many years. But the general impression is that it is rare except in some offices, particularly Chiang Mai. But they've always had the right to do this and people wanting to avoid stress don't lie about the amount on the letter and are prepared to back up the claim if demanded. 

[jacko45k]

Just now, Jingthing said:

There have been reports of this occasionally happening (checking for backup) for many, many years. But the general impression is that it is rare except in some offices, particularly Chiang Mai. But they've always had the right to do this and people wanting to avoid stress don't lie about the amount on the letter and are prepared to back up the claim if demanded. 

I know some people who use Chiang Rai and they are asked for extraneous 'proofs' and copies. Hard to deliver a single solution that fits all in this environment.

[Jingthing]

Just now, jacko45k said:

I know some people who use Chiang Rai and they are asked for extraneous 'proofs' and copies. Hard to deliver a single solution that fits all in this environment.

Hard? More like impossible.

 

[farangx]

18 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

I expect and of course hope that works out for you. 

Don't see why not.

I was using the 800K in the bank but did a SWIFT transfer last month of 100K from overseas. Looking at the paranoia here surrounding the new rules for the 800K, I will be making another such transfer this month in case the 800K method is more than what others here say it is.  I don't want to be hauled into jail as others have suggested. ????

 

[jacko45k]

2 minutes ago, farangx said:

I was using the 800K in the bank but did a SWIFT transfer last month of 100K from overseas. Looking at the paranoia here surrounding the new rules for the 800K, I will be making another such transfer this month in case the 800K method is more than what others here say it is.  I don't want to be hauled into jail as others have suggested. ????

 

Perhaps you saw my post that I will simply leave 800k untouched. 

I really don't know why that would be a problem.

[55Jay]

8 hours ago, mlmcleod said:

Why does anyone use the 800K baht for retirement anymore.  The new 65K for income method is way easier.  Just transfer 65K baht every month.  Then withdraw and send it back overseas and repeat.

That's the kind of scheming thought process which has, in part, put us where we are now. 

 

Besides that, doesn't make a lot of sense.

Edited February 8, 2019 by 55Jay

[Jingthing]

15 minutes ago, 55Jay said:

That's the kind of scheming thought process which has, in part, put us where we are now. 

 

Besides that, doesn't make a lot of sense.

Preview next "crackdown" that will hit most everyone, not just the schemers. 

[Gecko123]

1 hour ago, jacko45k said:

It might be more productive to talk solutions and options rather than simply looking at worst case scenarios. 

Scrap the financial requirements for retirees entirely, allow retirees to buy into the government health care program, enforce homeless and vagrancy statutes, and get out of the business of trying to control people's finances. Thailand isn't going to be inundated with poverty stricken retirees. It'll be like legalizing marijuana, which studies have shown only resulted in a 1.2% increase in usage post legalization.

[Gecko123]

1 hour ago, keemapoot said:

It won't be the foreigners who will cause the crisis (though the huge new workload at immigration will be daunting with everyone switching to marriage extensions, etc., ), it will be the dependent Thai wives and families who uprise and cause change. 

 

Yes, I agree with you on Pollyana brigade, but also think you and others who are so vocal should probably dial it back a bit, especially after seeing who will probably be the next PM after today's announcement. 

I'm still waiting for the protest marches from dependant families. Eerily quiet out there so far...

[ChouDoufu]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

The full income method over 65K baht per month without letter is rather clear already. If you're concern is you can import that but not sure they'll consider all of the income if they ask for backup details, it's a reasonable concern, and frankly there is nobody here that can give you an assurance it won't be a problem in future. If you're in CM it is likely to be a problem though, but CM is but one office. 

that's the concern.  let's say i have a couple hundred thousand sitting in a bank in the us, or as someone earlier said maybe i sold gold or paintings or my comic book collection.  i can prove it came from outside, but income?

 

i'll wait until i see how things turn out for extensions without the embassy letter and without proof of government pension.

[keemapoot]

16 minutes ago, Gecko123 said:

I'm still waiting for the protest marches from dependant families. Eerily quiet out there so far...

Yeah, don't hold your breath. But, eventually, this may prove out. Especially with a soon-to-be new PM who is in great favor of all the farangs who married the Issan ladies out there and the support of those families. ????

[JackThompson]

4 hours ago, farangx said:

Pure speculation. It will take years for the economies of Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam and the Philippines to catch up with Thailand.  That is if they do catch up.  How much "tips" at these countries restaurants the farangs from here need to give for anything to happen? ????

It is not only the money (total-spending) coming in from the thousands being driven out now, and the many more thousands driven out of Thailand already, but all the future expats that will never come. 

 

When you take the total annual spending of all those combined, multiplied times decades of living there and spending, it adds up to quite a bit.  There is a reason those countries are always happy to see us arrive, and make it easy for us to stay.  It would be short-sighted and foolish to do otherwise.

[jimn]

8 hours ago, srowndedbyh2o said:

I think it is right;

Extension done >800,000 for 3 months >400,000 for 7 months > 800,000 for 2 months

3+7+2. That’s your one year.

You are right of course. I was adding the original 2 months seasoning to the 3 months and 7 months. My apologies I stand corrected. 

[ubonjoe]

A off topic inflammatory post and a reply to has been removed.

[JackThompson]

11 hours ago, mlmcleod said:

Why does anyone use the 800K baht for retirement anymore.  The new 65K for income method is way easier.  Just transfer 65K baht every month.  Then withdraw and send it back overseas and repeat.

Unless one can live on air and sleep on the beach, a chunk of that money will be staying here.  Of course, because this is possible, it is not a useful way to judge income, vs the embassy letters.  This is one reason I have my doubts it will last long - especially if remittances to our passport-countries make a big jump this year - even it it is only a fraction of what we, and Thais working in our passport-countries, remit to Thailand.

 

The problem is, some have actual passport-country expenses they need to pay out of part of their incomes, and how to differentiate between the "money recyclers" and those paying genuine bills?  For this reason, even the honest folks will have to try to hide sending money back, using another account or similar, just to avoid being accused of money-recycling. 

 

2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Preview next "crackdown" that will hit most everyone, not just the schemers. 

Oh, much like this one, then.

[JackThompson]

3 hours ago, jacko45k said:

At the meeting today the combination method was stated as available. 

Any chance someone can post a run-down of that meeting?  Was there audio or video taken/posted somewhere?

 

Re: CM and asking for pension-letters to back up monthly-income (same as they started doing with embassy-letters, recently):

3 hours ago, Sheryl said:

This is something they are doing of their own accord, not required by the rules. Unclear why.

Well, their "all night in the parking lot or pay an agent" scheme was shut down, so they have to do something to keep the agent-applications happening.

 

3 hours ago, Sheryl said:

What I think they meant to say, was that monthly income + lump sum need to total 800K (as before) and the income part of that is subject to the new income rules (every month, into a Thai bank account, with proof it came from abroad) and the lump sum part is subject to the new rules for lump sums in that all of it must be there for 2 months before and 3 months after extension and then half of it must remain the rest of the year.

That would make perfect sense - not that this predicts the outcome - but I agree that is the only logical way to apply it.

[Jingthing]

If things make perfect sense in our imaginary rule making, never ever count on the same conclusions being made by your officer. Until we get clear instructions on what the exact rules are for the combo method no embassy letter it's just too risky to count on that method if you can manage the 800K which is very clear as to rules (but crickets on enforcement policies). 

[jacko45k]

10 hours ago, JackThompson said:

Any chance someone can post a run-down of that meeting?  Was there audio or video taken/posted somewhere?

No there wasn't. The information presented pretty much matched up with what is being talked about here, although with a 'don't worry', 'they aren't out to get you' or 'they don't want us to leave' and may even have suggested the latest regulations are  difficult to police and will not be strictly adhered to. 

 

Things I recall was Visa Waivers, if you get 4 at the airport you are flagged and it may be prudent to have the onward flight and money on you. (Or get a visa). Someone was turned around based on the money despite having ATM cards that would have resolved that immediately,

 

Not possible for Jomtiem to police bank accounts etc of approx 12,000 retirees, sampling may be employed. 

 

If people do fear bank balances being checked during the extension year on 90 day reporting, do it on-line! Or get an agent to do it. 

 

Some agents may be sidelines by immigration, but for the ones who have a good relationship with Imm, business as usual. (My thought, more business as usual). 

 

Overall a good presentation as he always does, a positive sentiment and a pro agency line as I would expect. 

 

Anyone else who was there chirp in too!

Edited February 9, 2019 by jacko45k

[YoungBrit]

22 hours ago, mlmcleod said:

Why does anyone use the 800K baht for retirement anymore.  The new 65K for income method is way easier.  Just transfer 65K baht every month.  Then withdraw and send it back overseas and repeat.

What method/company do you use to transfer? That is a lot on fees transferring standard through normal bank channels?

[Henryford]

13 minutes ago, YoungBrit said:

What method/company do you use to transfer? That is a lot on fees transferring standard through normal bank channels? 

Use Dee Money only 150 baht.