Consequences of illegally using 800K for retirement extension after March 1, 2019

[JTXR]

Another variant:
I plan to use the combo method this year (in June), using a US embassy affidavit I got at the end of December plus money in account.  I actually don't need 400K to meet the 800K total requirement, but I'll put 400K in so I meet the new requirement of minimum balance throughout next year.  However, I plan to use the 65K/month option for next year (I'll begin transferring 65K to Bangkok Bank in May).

My question is, when do you think I can start drawing down the 400K?  To be safe, should I wait until I get next year's extension (June 2020) based on the 65K/mo option?

[Longcut]

16 hours ago, jacko45k said:

800,000 baht is what we were discussing, US$25,000 That is about 1 inch tall in $100s.

Are you using Vietnamese Dong?

The Thai bank isn't going to give me back my money in USD.

[jacko45k]

3 minutes ago, Longcut said:

The Thai bank isn't going to give me back my money in USD.

Then go change it into them...... even 800,000 baht doesn't need suitcases. 

[StevieAus]

I find it amazing that the ink is barely dry on the Police Order and people are trying to find ways to circumvent the system.

I wonder did these people spend as much time trying to break the laws in their home countries

[jacko45k]

1 minute ago, StevieAus said:

I wonder did these people spend as much time trying to break the laws in their home countries

If they did, perhaps some new Thai  immigration regulations will wheedle them out!

[Olmate]

15 minutes ago, StevieAus said:

I find it amazing that the ink is barely dry on the Police Order and people are trying to find ways to circumvent the system.

I wonder did these people spend as much time trying to break the laws in their home countries

What,s the law against using an agent?

[WeekendRaider]

obviously guessing, but once Immigration can figure out how to make it more fair, that Bangkok Bank has a special relationship with US Social Security, and those monthly payments for most folks when direct deposited using the rules set up for Bangkok Bank exclusively (for the same reason import agents are exclusive), for most Americans mean not needing to do more than fill out a TM7 once a year.  what did I get wrong or miss?  at some point a few months or years ahead.  and that's a heck of a lot of Americans. 

Edited February 9, 2019 by WeekendRaider

[steve73]

2 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Then go change it into them...... even 800,000 baht doesn't need suitcases. 

800k THB is a stack about 80-90 mm high (or 3-3.5 inches for the Brits).

[Sheryl]

14 hours ago, JackThompson said:

....The problem is, some have actual passport-country expenses they need to pay out of part of their incomes, and how to differentiate between the "money recyclers" and those paying genuine bills?  For this reason, even the honest folks will have to try to hide sending money back, using another account or similar, just to avoid being accused of money-recycling...

 

If using Dee Money the problem does nto arise, it shows as a domestic online bill payment.

 

I am not sure one can currently use Dee Money to send to EU countries but then they all still do Embassy letters.

 

Works fine for US, UK and  Australia.

 

 

[Sheryl]

4 hours ago, JTXR said:

Another variant:
I plan to use the combo method this year (in June), using a US embassy affidavit I got at the end of December plus money in account.  I actually don't need 400K to meet the 800K total requirement, but I'll put 400K in so I meet the new requirement of minimum balance throughout next year.  However, I plan to use the 65K/month option for next year (I'll begin transferring 65K to Bangkok Bank in May).

My question is, when do you think I can start drawing down the 400K?  To be safe, should I wait until I get next year's extension (June 2020) based on the 65K/mo option?

Suggest you ask them when you do the extension. And post what you learn.

 

it is not at all clear that there is a need to have minimum balance of 400K for the combo method. Might be based on the total lump sum amount (e.g. is your lump sum is 200k then minimum balance after the 2+3 months would be only 100). But do ask them, the rules are poorly written.

 

As to whether you can ignore the post-seasoning/minimum requirement if planning to switch to income method next year, I don't think anyone knows at this point. Barring more clarification it might be  safer not to risk it.

[UKresonant]

20 hours ago, Sheryl said:

There have been reports that CM immigration is asking for letters from "pension providers".

Totally bizarre as they can't allow there use for income proof without a letter from your countries embassy, so they would need authority from the MFA and the pensions letters submitted to the Thai Embassy in your home country? if your embassy does not do "income letters". Why ask for something "they" have said they do not recognized as legitimate proof already!

 

[JackThompson]

2 hours ago, johnwf1963 said:

Totally bizarre as they can't allow there use for income proof without a letter from your countries embassy, so they would need authority from the MFA and the pensions letters submitted to the Thai Embassy in your home country? if your embassy does not do "income letters". Why ask for something "they" have said they do not recognized as legitimate proof already!

 

If using the income-based qualifying method, they ask for the pension-letter as Secondary Documentation, with no requirement for any stamps to verify the document you present is genuine. 

 

The primary documentation is either the embassy-letter (if you have one / can still get one), or proof of monthly foreign transfers via bank-book or bank-statement, which must also be accompanied by the "bank letter" used for the "money in the bank" method.

 

But, in reality, they ask for this and other things as punishment for not paying them off via an agent.  Most offices are not reported to request Secondary Documentation, though they can at their option.

[hadi8253]

On 2/8/2019 at 12:17 PM, natway09 said:

In a nutshell then, if you really wish to retire in Thailand & make it your new home just put 

one million Baht in a savings account, getting interest every 3 months & forget about it

until next years extension comes along.

If you are not prepared to do that, maybe should go back

Sorry, I dont agree! I live 20y in TH with the 65K rule. 800K for what ... In Th expats dye every day - on road or in bed. My bank accont always shows between 50K and 250K. If I dye I do not care about, but 800K I will benefit my chidren not a bank and not TH. Btw I could afford 1 million Baht - even more, but what for ???

[Henryford]

57 minutes ago, hadi8253 said:

Sorry, I dont agree! I live 20y in TH with the 65K rule. 800K for what ... In Th expats dye every day - on road or in bed. My bank accont always shows between 50K and 250K. If I dye I do not care about, but 800K I will benefit my chidren not a bank and not TH. Btw I could afford 1 million Baht - even more, but what for ??? 

I don't agree either. Basically you have to put that money in a bank and it is lost, as you can never touch it again. What happens if i have a medical emergency and spend some of the money (to help the thai economy). I have to forfeit my visa.

[jimn]

1 hour ago, hadi8253 said:

Sorry, I dont agree! I live 20y in TH with the 65K rule. 800K for what ... In Th expats dye every day - on road or in bed. My bank accont always shows between 50K and 250K. If I dye I do not care about, but 800K I will benefit my chidren not a bank and not TH. Btw I could afford 1 million Baht - even more, but what for ???

What are the expats dyeing? Is it their hair?

[Olmate]

13 minutes ago, Henryford said:

I don't agree either. Basically you have to put that money in a bank and it is lost, as you can never touch it again. What happens if i have a medical emergency and spend some of the money (to help the thai economy). I have to forfeit my visa.

And of course your Thai bank has full use of your 800k for 7 months and your 400k for ever! Good deal I reckon..

[Olmate]

5 minutes ago, Olmate said:

And of course your Thai bank has full use of your 800k for 7 months and your 400k for ever! Good deal I reckon..

Sorry 5 months!

[steve73]

44 minutes ago, Henryford said:

I don't agree either. Basically you have to put that money in a bank and it is lost, as you can never touch it again. What happens if i have a medical emergency and spend some of the money (to help the thai economy). I have to forfeit my visa.

If you have a medical emergency, then you will have at least 400k immediately available for use.  OK, it might cost you your next years visa, but it's better than it costing you your life... Without funds, Thailand has absolutely no obligation to do anything other than make you comfortable and let you die.

 

Now perhaps in future, if you can prove you hold adequate insurance, the requirement to maintain these minimums may be relaxed.

[roger buttmore]

Assuming every retiree in Thailand currently on a retirement extension is totally legit and above board in terms of their financial status according to the rules as they currently stand, up until 1st March 2019, then .. Oh, forgot what I was going to say ..

[ivor bigun]

As i did my yearly at the begining of jan,before these new rules came out ,i assume the "new rules" do not apply to us until we do our new extension

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[ivor bigun]

If you have a medical emergency, then you will have at least 400k immediately available for use.  OK, it might cost you your next years visa, but it's better than it costing you your life... Without funds, Thailand has absolutely no obligation to do anything other than make you comfortable and let you die.
 
Now perhaps in future, if you can prove you hold adequate insurance, the requirement to maintain these minimums may be relaxed.

How many of us can actually get health insurance? Very few i reckon.

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[jacko45k]

5 minutes ago, ivor bigun said:

As i did my yearly at the begining of jan,before these new rules came out ,i assume the "new rules" do not apply to us until we do our new extension

Sent from my SM-A720F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Yes, I would suggest they will want to see the 3 months/7 months/2 months at 800/400/800 kbaht. Next January.. be ready.

[ivor bigun]

Yes, I would suggest they will want to see the 3 months/7 months/2 months at 800/400/800 kbaht. Next January.. be ready.

Well i had my 800,000 in for 3 months ,and took 100k out for living so only 700,000 in now which according to the rules then is ok ,and i dont need to keep 400,000 in until next time ,right?

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[superal]

On 2/8/2019 at 10:47 AM, possum1931 said:

OK, here we go again. What about the retirees who bought there houses, brought up families, even took Thai families out of poverty when all that was needed was a trip to the border every 90 days to stay in the country indefinitely.

The government then stopped all this and made it financially much harder for these same retirees to carry on living here.

Don't they have the right to feel cheated?

Off on a tangent now but your mail is very relevant  .

Liquid asset's and family status should be taken into account  .  Regarding this latest income / savings requirement there are many settled falangs who cannot meet the targets . They are often married and have children , built their own house and support their Thai families to a decent standard of living . 

The government required income levels are over the top as a reasonable living can be had on half of the monthly monies . Just ask what Thai peoples income is to live on , maybe 10,000 baht a month at best .

There is no taking into account of where the falang is staying e.g. Bangkok is more expensive than rural Issan . Falangs wife may be working for a reasonable income but not considered .

Why should a married falang , without children , have a monthly income need the same as that of a family with four children ?   This new law has clearly not been thought through and seems to be open to many challenges if not in Thailand . Do the Thai authorities not realise the immense stress they have given to many families ?

[jacko45k]

26 minutes ago, superal said:

Why should a married falang , without children , have a monthly income need the same as that of a family with four children ? 

Why should a falang, who has chosen not to get married and have children be required to have more than one who has? You are looking for immigration to provide a type of reverse welfare?

[JLCrab]

48 minutes ago, superal said:

Do the Thai authorities not realise the immense stress they have given to many families ?

Probably but I guess they haven chosen a reg that covers most general circumstances and not 127 exceptions and conditions to qualify or override such general circumstances.

[RocketDog]

On 2/8/2019 at 8:44 AM, mlmcleod said:

Why does anyone use the 800K baht for retirement anymore.  The new 65K for income method is way easier.  Just transfer 65K baht every month.  Then withdraw and send it back overseas and repeat.

If you need that money to live on then you can't send it back. Even if you could you would pay fees and exchange rate penalties twice a month. Not very attractive to me but it is an alternative I guess. 

[steve73]

2 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Why should a falang, who has chosen not to get married and have children be required to have more than one who has? You are looking for immigration to provide a type of reverse welfare?

As a non-married retiree on 65k/mon, you are expected to support 6.5 locals.  You can be with Mon on Monday, Tui on Tuesday, Wan on Wednesday, etc.

And have a half day of rest on Sunday...

 

  ????

 

 

[JackThompson]

4 hours ago, superal said:

Do the Thai authorities not realise the immense stress they have given to many families ?

A better question to ask, is do they care - at all?  They have already destroyed thousands of businesses/jobs that supported Thais, through policy-changes to-date. 

 

Ongoing policy-shifts indicate they want most longer-staying Westerners either "gone" or paying increasing amounts of tribute per-each to stay.  Anything bad that happens to Thais as a consequence to this policy appears to be irrelevant to them.

[jacko45k]

3 hours ago, steve73 said:

As a non-married retiree on 65k/mon, you are expected to support 6.5 locals.  You can be with Mon on Monday, Tui on Tuesday, Wan on Wednesday, etc.

And have a half day of rest on Sunday...

 

  ????

 

 

I do, at least, often seems like more!