Chaengwattana affirmation to marry problem

[Maestro]

6 hours ago, CraigInBangkok said:

You need to submit the translated affirmation in order to obtain kor lor 2 and marriage certificate.

There is no "kor lor 2"

 

You do not have to submit an affidavit of freedom to marry to the district office to get a copy of the marriage registry, ie the form KR.2. This form serves immigration as evidence that you are still married.

[Maestro]

14 hours ago, CraigInBangkok said:

...We were concerned about this when the list they gave us, mentions this in Thai but not is English...

1

What number is the "affirmation to marry" on the Thai list? I'd like to see what immigration calls it in Thai.

[CraigInBangkok]

13 minutes ago, Maestro said:

What number is the "affirmation to marry" on the Thai list? I'd like to see what immigration calls it in Thai.

Wifes at work at moment and cant read Thai ...but I would assume its number 3

 

Edit : Just to confirm we have kor lor 2 and marriage certificate. The district office could'nt give us a copy of the affidavit as they dont keep them after a couple of years

 

Edited February 9, 2019 by CraigInBangkok
extra info

[JackThompson]

15 hours ago, emptypockets said:

Why do you need an affirmation to marry if you are already married? Perhaps a translation problem?

It has been reported at other offices to block legitimate requests for marriage-based extensions.

 

6 hours ago, CraigInBangkok said:

Some requirements seem a little bit hidden.

They add more and more with each visit, to try to prevent accepting the application, at some offices.  CW used to be one of the good offices - but with the unrelated landlord-docs, forcing to hold the "money in the bank" past the required 2-mo seasoning (if qualifying financials this way), and now playing the "dig up an old permission-to-marry doc" which is no longer relevant (was only needed to get married by an amphoe) - it is clear that new leadership is moving away - rather than towards - making honest in-person applications straightforward at that office.

 

4 hours ago, CraigInBangkok said:

I have been thinking about an agent to get this process done, but I resent paying all that money. I have been in a real relationship for 14 years and tried to do everything by their rules, so I think an agent asking for 15000bht is taking the piss.

Yes - it is.  It is unfortunate the corruption just keeps getting worse - even at CW, which used to allow honest in-person applications "by the book."

 

4 hours ago, BritManToo said:

You could always go to Suvannakhet and get a multi-entry non-o, no financials, no affirmation.

Yes - and do "border runs" like a tourist - which is crazy given how long he has been living / married here.  Sad when it comes down to this, due to corruption.

 

2 hours ago, Maestro said:

I am quite sure that if the Immigration Commissioner heard about this and knew the implications, he would not put up with it.

The goal of these pointless requests is to force agent use.  Who knows what parties up the chain get paid how much via the agent-money pipeline. 

The IO he spoke to said she would have to "talk to her boss" about not having the non-required, irrelevant document - it's not just some low-level IO(s) working the agent scheme.

Edited February 9, 2019 by JackThompson

[Maestro]

16 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

It has been reported at other offices to block legitimate requests for marriage-based extensions.

 

They add more and more with each visit, to try to prevent accepting the application, at some offices.  CW used to be one of the good offices - but with the unrelated landlord-docs, forcing to hold the "money in the bank" past the required 2-mo seasoning (if qualifying financials this way), and now playing the "dig up an old permission-to-marry doc" which is no longer relevant (was only needed to get married by an amphoe) - it is clear that new leadership is moving away - rather than towards - making honest in-person applications straightforward at that office.

 

Yes - it is.  It is unfortunate the corruption just keeps getting worse - even at CW, which used to allow honest in-person applications "by the book."

 

Yes - and do "border runs" like a tourist - which is crazy given how long he has been living / married here.  Sad when it comes down to this, due to corruption.

 

The goal of these pointless requests is to force agent use.  Who knows what parties up the chain get paid how much via the agent-money pipeline. 

The IO he spoke to said she would have to "talk to her boss" about not having the non-required, irrelevant document - it's not just some low-level IO(s) working the agent scheme.

This is very disturbing, which is the reason why it should be brought to the attention of the Immigration Commissioner.

 

The Bankok immigration office does not seem to make this request of all applicants for a retirement extension and I wonder how they select their extortion targets.

[CraigInBangkok]

6 minutes ago, Maestro said:

This is very disturbing, which is the reason why it should be brought to the attention of the Immigration Commissioner.

 

The Bankok immigration office does not seem to make this request of all applicants for a retirement extension and I wonder how they select their extortion targets.

I know my face isnt a face of joy but I cant help how my aging brow lines make me appear. ????

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, JackThompson said:

It has been reported at other offices to block legitimate requests for marriage-based extensions.

 

Chiang Mai immigration insisted on it for me (when I was married, and daft enough to go there).

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, Maestro said:

This is very disturbing, which is the reason why it should be brought to the attention of the Immigration Commissioner.

 

The Bankok immigration office does not seem to make this request of all applicants for a retirement extension and I wonder how they select their extortion targets.

At some offices, being married to a Thai is the most certain way to make staying here hell.  It's the exact opposite of how one would imagine, based on moral and humanitarian concerns. 

 

Because the income/bank money levels are lower (achievable by the vast majority), immigration would likely receive a higher ratio of honest, in-person applications for marriage-based, vs retirement.  Viewed from the perspective of agent-money revenue per extension-type, the marriage-extensions would have been seen as "under performing."  

 

Some extra screws were then applied to shift the balance - to make the experience so terrible, that even those who honestly qualify in every respect would go to agents, just to avoid the hell.  Being rude to the wife is a particularly effective tactic, given a man's natural instinct to protect his wife.   The result of this calculated-abuse, would be a higher agent-money return ratio from the marriage-extension applicant-pool.

 

Given this is the case in many offices, one can only wonder how high-up the order to "make things difficult" originates. 

[BritManToo]

3 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Being rude to the wife is a particularly effective tactic, given a man's natural instinct to protect his wife.

Nobody in immigration was ever rude to my wife, she would have stabbed them then and there, and they could see it.

One year they kept us waiting two hours for our appointment and she went ape-shit crazy, screaming and shouting.

The big boss came out to see what was happening (dressed in torn jeans and a dirty t-shirt), and invited us round the back where he did the whole thing in record time. He absolutely refused to speak directly to me, the wife said he hates white folk.

(That was the immigration boss 5 years back, not the current guy).

[JackThompson]

6 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Nobody in immigration was ever rude to my wife, she would have stabbed them then and there, and they could see it.

 

19 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

when I was married

Ahhh, I see.  Can't say I blame you for making that marriage-thing past-tense. 

 

My wife is the quieter type - only begged me never to go back to that immigration office, again. 

 

They were nicer to her/us up here in the boonies, when we went in for a TM-30, but when we asked about doing an annual extension in the future, the IO said the income had to be a "government pension" (another trick to avoid doing marriage-extensions), so I am stuck with the Non-O-ME Visa or whatever comes next, until I turn whatever the age for social-security has been pushed up to by the time I get there.

[jacko45k]

On 2/9/2019 at 9:26 AM, BritManToo said:

The answer (as always), pay a VISA agent.

PS. I always kept photocopies of every document I ever had in Thailand.

Yes, of course that is what the woman wants.

[SteveK]

Surely it makes zero difference to the immigration people if you apply in person or use an agent? Unless the agent has a friend or family member who can push things through a bit easier?

[jacko45k]

1 minute ago, pr9spk said:

Surely it makes zero difference to the immigration people if you apply in person or use an agent?

You don't think so! Why do you think you pay an agent 20-25,000 when the true cost is 1900?

Edited February 12, 2019 by jacko45k

[BritManToo]

20 minutes ago, pr9spk said:

Surely it makes zero difference to the immigration people if you apply in person or use an agent? Unless the agent has a friend or family member who can push things through a bit easier?

You do understand the Agent only keeps 20% of your payment.

Where do you think the other 80% goes?

[Peterw42]

30 minutes ago, pr9spk said:

Surely it makes zero difference to the immigration people if you apply in person or use an agent? Unless the agent has a friend or family member who can push things through a bit easier?

I was always under the impression that most agents dont and cant do marriage extensions, Home visits, certified documents etc, at best they can only accompany you to the office etc. 

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, Peterw42 said:

I was always under the impression that most agents dont and cant do marriage extensions, Home visits, certified documents etc, at best they can only accompany you to the office etc. 

No home visit if you use an agent the right agent.

[CraigInBangkok]

UPDATE .... So everything went well today. Got there just before 10, got everything submitted just before lunch and got passport back just after lunch. 

We had A different  IO who was much nicer this time and even laughed a couple of times. 

 

We managed to get the affirmation though. My wife was reading online that there was no way they would destroy the original as it can be used for evidence. Apparently this turns out to be true. We just had to beg the man to get off his backside and look in a box that wasn't at front of the boxes as it was 6 years old. 

 

So to anyone who gets told they don't keep the affirmation at a district office just be persistent!

 

I can tell you all that, my first marriage extension along with the BOI shit before has been the most stressful week of my life, but I'm happy I went with principles over an agent. If you keep using them, you can't really complain about corruption.

 

Edited February 12, 2019 by CraigInBangkok

[mpchamp]

On 2/12/2019 at 3:53 PM, CraigInBangkok said:

UPDATE .... So everything went well today. Got there just before 10, got everything submitted just before lunch and got passport back just after lunch. 

We had A different  IO who was much nicer this time and even laughed a couple of times. 

 

We managed to get the affirmation though. My wife was reading online that there was no way they would destroy the original as it can be used for evidence. Apparently this turns out to be true. We just had to beg the man to get off his backside and look in a box that wasn't at front of the boxes as it was 6 years old. 

 

So to anyone who gets told they don't keep the affirmation at a district office just be persistent!

 

I can tell you all that, my first marriage extension along with the BOI shit before has been the most stressful week of my life, but I'm happy I went with principles over an agent. If you keep using them, you can't really complain about corruption.

 

Great to hear @CraigInBangkok Congratulations!

 

So in short from your visa extension based on non-immig IB/B (I assume IB) you were able to request cancellation then apply for a separate extension based on marriage. Is this correct?

 

Is there any company letter involved/required in the process?

 

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, mpchamp said:

Great to hear @CraigInBangkok Congratulations!

 

So in short from your visa extension based on non-immig IB/B (I assume IB) you were able to request cancellation then apply for a separate extension based on marriage. Is this correct?

 

Is there any company letter involved/required in the process?

 

He was ending work, and switching to an extension based upon being married to a Thai.  They were blocking his extension by demanding to see his 6-year old "Freedom of Affirmation to Marry" document (shown to an Amphoe, so they will let you get married).  This, to spite the fact he has a Kor Ror 2 showing he is currently married, plus his original marriage certificate, plus his wife there in-person with her ID, housebook, etc.  This trick is one of many runarounds reported, to try to prevent folks obtaining legitimate extensions based on marriage w/o an agent.