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Big Joke, Visas & Medical Insurance


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Gents I have had my 3 score and 10 and have been living quite happily in Thailand for the last 18 years.

I first visited in the 70's got to know Bangkok well in the 80's, was married and later divorced in the 90's.

I have an income of less than B65K /month but still save from my 2 UK pensions, one state old age the other a forces pension.

The State is fixed and the forces does increase slightly each year.

I have my B800K in the account that both my pensions are paid into, so this quantity increases slowly each year.

There is a history of Cardiac problems in my family and my older brother had triple heart bypass years ago when he was late 50's or early 60's, paid for by UK's National Health which I cannot access any more.

I believe from Thai Visa that this operation would cost me around B1.5 million in Thailand and so have this money in a second account, for I am assured that in life threatening cases Payment up front is required before they start wielding the knife.

Now I have been able to take care of my problems but a 'New' one has arisen, in that the words

Compulsory Medical Insurance with a Thai company,

has been mentioned on Thai Visa and in You Tube vids.

Nothing solid but suggested to be part of Big Joke's reforms.

From what I read expensive insurance is available for you young guns but for folk over 70 no chance.

I want to stay in Thailand where I have friends, Thai steadily out numbering Frangs for the frangs pass on or more often become immobile.

I would value any sensible comments including a move to suitable alternative counties in S.E. Asia, Penang and Viet Nam have been mentioned to me.

 

john

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There is another thread about compulsory health insurance (currently running) many pages.

Where has it been mentioned by ti as possible future requirement for annual extensions. Can't understand how this is gaining legs. There was a discussion about possibility of making it requirement for one visa.

Edited by DrJack54
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16 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

//  There was a discussion about possibility of making it requirement for one visa.

A possibility for a second visa: O-A. It's already exists for O-X visa.

But nobody nowhere talked about it for Retirement Extension...

except ThaiVisa "fear projects" members... :whistling:

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As I understand it the requirement for medical insurance of 400,000 baht was for the O-A Visa.

For the Retirement Extension this is now met by having to keep 400,000 baht in the bank all year.

I think Thailand is fed up with the number of elderly farang who need urgent hospital treatment and then don't have the money to pay for it!

Whether 400,000 will cover that remains to be seen, but at least it's a start.

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OP:

 

"From what I read expensive insurance is available for you young guns but for folk over 70 no chance. "

 

Not the case. if you are healthy, age is nto a barrier to getting insurance.

 

Actually I would nto call insurance expensive for young people. It is for older ones, though.  At 70 and over  you can expect to pay anywhere from USD 3,000 to 5,000 per year )e.g. around 8-10K baht a month) for a good  policy that will guaranatee lifetime cover if no deductible (excess). Significantly less if you accept a deductible, and since you have savings put aside that might work for you.

 

The problem with your 1.5 million self insurance is (1) how will you replenish it when it has been used?  and (2) that amount is will not be sufficient for care in a private hospitals if you have a really catastrophic illness or accident. Bills can easily top 4 million and that's for just 1 hospitalization.

 

If you have significant pre-existing conditions like actual heart disease or diabetes, you may have no choice but to self-insure, but otherwise you would be well advised to get insured and do it now, before something happens. If you do have to remain self insured, make sure (1) friend or family knows to keep close tabs on the bill and move you our of a private hospital to a government one if it starts looking like it will exceed 1 million baht (or use govt hospital to begin with) and (2) have a clear plan for what you how you will replenish the amount once spent or what you  will do if unable replenish it.

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55 minutes ago, Ginkas said:

I think Thailand is fed up with the number of elderly farang who need urgent hospital treatment and then don't have the money to pay for it!

Are there any published statistics on this - ideally contrasting these expenditures to the VAT taxes paid by expats? 

Or, is this issue just something injected into news-propaganda - to demonize us, and create a seemingly-moral justification for further reneging on the rules for retirement which were on-offer when many were encouraged by TAT to retire here?

 

56 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

There was a time when many expats signed up for the 'Medical Health Scheme' for foreigners' which was actually supposed to only be available to workers from Cambodia, Myanmar etc, but because of misinterpretation, it was offered to all foreigners.

Correct.  It is a corporate-welfare scheme to subsidize businesses hiring foreigners instead of Thais.  We have similar corporate-welfare programs in parts of the USA which provide free-healthcare to illegal-aliens, while Americans pay through the nose or do without.

 

58 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

The biggest problem they have with unpaid hospital bills, comes from the Tourists who don't take out travel insurance.

Exactly.  Which is why it would make more sense to have an "emergency treatment plus repatriation" plan paid for by all, based on the permitted-stay being granted.  Let longer-stayers put up a high-deductible in the bank to lower premiums, and the whole issue is solved, from the Thai perspective.  What the foreigner can get upon repatriation is another matter, so they might also wish to purchase a policy for ongoing care in Thailand.

 

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1 hour ago, Peterw42 said:

That is only for a OA visa application at a embassy or consulate that was also posted months ago in a news article.

Quote

Once it comes into effect, foreigners with the one-year Non-immigrant Visa "O-A" (Long Stay)  will be required to have Thai insurance policies covering their entire stay in Thailand with minimum Bt40,000 out-patient medical bill coverage and minimum Bt400,000 in-patient medical bill coverage. 

 

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I think it would make sense for the Thai government to offer the health scheme to foreigners again, with a premium that would cover the costs and help subsidize the program for citizens. Limit service to government hospitals, perhaps, to help prevent less urgent claims. I use government hospitals as a self insured, and the wait times can be excruciating.????

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22 hours ago, jonwilly said:

There is a history of Cardiac problems in my family and my older brother had triple heart bypass years ago when he was late 50's or early 60's, paid for by UK's National Health which I cannot access any more.

I believe from Thai Visa that this operation would cost me around B1.5 million in Thailand and so have this money in a second account, for I am assured that in life threatening cases Payment up front is required before they start wielding the knife.

With the strength of the baht and weakness of the pound, this country is no bargain for medical procedures like this anymore. Given that a triple bypass is more typically a waiting list procedure than an emergency one, I'd suggest considering a hospital in India. Quality and experience is high, English proficiency also, generally at all staff levels. Costs would be a fraction of what you'd pay in Thailand, plus it's an inexpensive three hour flight nowadays. 

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22 hours ago, jonwilly said:

There is a history of Cardiac problems in my family and my older brother had triple heart bypass years ago when he was late 50's or early 60's, paid for by UK's National Health which I cannot access any more.

OP This is a genuine attempt to offer you an alternative - IT IS ENTIRELY up to you of course, to accept it. It has worked VERY well for millions of people.

 

{SNIP} Meet Frances Greger, Dr. Michael Greger's grandmother (in the above two videos). Dr. Greger says that his grandmother "was given a medical death sentence at the age of 65."  Seeing his grandmother's health improve is what inspired Dr. Greger to pursue a career in plant-based medicine.{END} SOURCE Link

 

Many (Maybe you're one of them?) will not accept that alternatives exist. However, my own humanity compels me to at lease add my own "empirical" experience into the debate you initiated.

 

19 hours ago, Sheryl said:

The problem with your 1.5 million self insurance is (1) how will you replenish it when it has been used?  and (2) that amount is will not be sufficient for care in a private hospitals if you have a really catastrophic illness or accident. Bills can easily top 4 million and that's for just 1 hospitalization.

This comment by Sheryl resonated too. Building a fund to cope with what you (seem to) feel is inevitable will drain your resources.

 

My bottom line: Researching, then modifying your lifestyle could well stave off heart surgery completely - as it has done for countless people (Me included)...

 

Not everything in medicine is improved by a "scalpel" 

 

Some would say Hippocrates and his teacher Democritus are considered to be the father(s) of modern medicine. Hippocrates also is reputed to have said "Let food be thy medicine and medicine be thy food"

 

Good luck mate...

 

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17 hours ago, jonwilly said:

It was discussed at the time this news first came out - that article is from December 23, 2018.  But it is important:

 

Quote

While the measure has been agreed in principle, it will now be worked upon by government departments and insurance experts for a final plan.
...
It will involve the Thai Public Health Ministry, Foreign Affairs Department, the Interior Ministry and the Immigration Bureau. There will also be consultations with key insurance bodies such as the Office of Insurance Commission and the Thai General Insurance Association.
...
the proposal specifies coverage from health firms in Thailand.
...
current health coverage policies for foreigners in the country are more restrictive and more expensive than those offered by international firms.

In my passport-country, an organizations listed above as "key insurance bodies" are called "government lobbying groups," whose sole function is to maximize profits.  That would explain not allowing competition with international firms, or visitor's passport-country insurance.

 

Quote

It is thought the the new requirement will require foreigners, applying for a new one year visa extension, to show that they have enough health coverage to pay a minimum of ฿40,000 ($1,270) for outpatient costs and a coverage for ฿400,000 ($12,700) for in-patient medical costs in the event of an emergency.

Emergencies do not require "out patient" coverage, unless one chooses to stay and continue the "long-term treatment/care" phase in Thailand.  The only reason to include this, would be to deter people seeking treatment in more affordable countries.

And, sure enough, the proposals are forcing longer-stay persons to buy health-insurance well beyond what they actually need to prevent unpaid bills - supposedly the "problem" to be addressed.  Then, they say this about the problem":

Quote

Ongoing problem for Thai hospitals left with unpaid bills ...

Notice that no statistics regarding those "unpaid bills" are provided.  No "how much per year" or "how much per tourist," a breakdown by type of extension, etc.  You know, the first thing you would need to know before considering "fixing" something - defining the problem.  Though they do include this:

Quote

... particularly from tourists

There has been concern for some time about the issue of health coverage for foreigners in Thailand. This has been mainly focused short term visitors, many of them younger people who have accidents requiring expensive treatment and who are often left in the nightmare situation without the ability to pay and still requiring further treatment.

If short-term tourists are the problem, why are only the long-term visa/extension persons being targeted?  


The authorities working these schemes are merely creating a new form of "Tribute" which is to be extracted from anyone staying longer-term - while forcing those unwilling to be fleeced to leave (the latter being the preferred option to many, given other recent policy-changes).  It has little to do with addressing the stated problem of unpaid medical bills. 

 

They don't target short-term, generally-younger (more likely to take risks) visitors, because they don't want to interfere with the mass-tourism / package-tourism from China - a visiting-population with so little to spend, they must be lured in with 1000 or 2000 baht VOA discounts to keep TAT's visitor-statistics up.  Adding an insurance bill of even a few hundred baht could make the trip too expensive for a significant percentage of them.  As well, they don't stay and put down roots (cannot afford it), so are not considered a "threat."

Edited by JackThompson
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Considering that TI just issued new guidelines for retirement extensions, one would think they would have included mandatory insurance at this time if they were so inclined. They did not. Instead they just tightened rules in terms of amount of money people have to have.

 

I have no inside info, but it looks like this is the approach they are going to take at least for the forseeable future. It would be strange for them to have issued these new rules without mention of insurance if they were close to requiring insurance.

 

 

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On 2/10/2019 at 9:23 AM, jonwilly said:

I believe from Thai Visa that this operation would cost me around B1.5 million in Thailand and so have this money in a second account,

india is certainly an option.  B1.5 million is just under $50k.  you should be able to get that done in india for $10k or less.

 

i had my valve replacement done at apollo in chennai.  no complaints. 

 

 

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8 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Considering that TI just issued new guidelines for retirement extensions, one would think they would have included mandatory insurance at this time if they were so inclined. They did not. Instead they just tightened rules in terms of amount of money people have to have.

 

I have no inside info, but it looks like this is the approach they are going to take at least for the forseeable future. It would be strange for them to have issued these new rules without mention of insurance if they were close to requiring insurance.

 

 

If you heat the water up to fast the frog will jump out and wont get cooked....

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On 2/10/2019 at 10:47 AM, freedomnow said:

It's just terrible that it has come to this for a lot of real long-termers.

Most long-termers can continue with the "pragan sangkom" social security health insurance. As long as they have worked for 15 years they can continue for about 450 baht a month.

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