Acquiring PR with skant Thai language skills

[jackdd]

18 hours ago, Enki said:

Germany does not really revoke it. That is against the charta of human rights. Thailand expects you to "drop it". And you simply apply for a new passport from your old country then.

https://germanlawarchive.iuscomp.org/?p=266

Section 17
(1) Citizenship shall be lost
by acquisition of a foreign citizenship (Section 25),

You may however apply for a permit to keep German citizenship if you are "able to furnish credible evidence of continuing ties with Germany", no idea how good the odds are to have this approved, but by default you lose German citizenship if you get another citizenship.

[problemfarang]

3 hours ago, tomazbodner said:

I know someone applying Thai citizenship right now. Cannot avoid verbal language exam. The written part isn't tested (unless that changes by the time she has it in a month or so). She's using a lawyer to help with it. The anthem singing is mandatory when applicant isn't married to a natural Thai citizen (but if married to someone who acquired Thai citizenship it is still required). Whether they may still require it when married to natural Thai citizen I guess we'll know soon. This is for Bangkok. No idea about other provinces.

 

well.. i found out from my lawyer today that if you are married and want to get PR (which you dont need to have it to be a thai citizen) and show them that you can speak and understand good enough for a daily conversation... and look friendly... you dont need to do singing. Actually he told me almost 70% of applicants wont need to sing. Also some says if you can get 50 from the oral exam, again no singing. Questions are mostly about your daily life.

If you are not married with a Thai, yes oral exam and singing is a must.

Now for the written and reading part.. they are not a must BUT if you can, it higher your score.

[problemfarang]

3 hours ago, Griffo63 said:

I fear my language skills are not good enough for Thai citizenship.

 

Can you explain a little more about the big target on my back as I don't understand your point.

 

As far as what do i expect to achieve then i thought with enough interested/committed individuals the point could be raised with the authorities   - nothing to lose as fas as i can see. 

 

Hi,

Im about to apply for being a thai. I had a small chit chat with my lawyer who is really good at these things. He told me the questions or the conversation is base on your daily life. And some little bit business base conversations. So, if you can get into details of your... what your doing in free times, explaining your work, some old memories and understand and answer their basic questions.. no worries.

Also if your married with a Thai and can pass this oral exam with a good impression and score, no need to sing songs.

If your not married you have to sing songs

Edited February 11, 2019 by problemfarang

[problemfarang]

19 hours ago, Enki said:

Wow, how did you manage that? I can read it nearly perfectly now, I only can not write much, because I only know 100 words, rofl. Learn reading man, you only need a week for that, if at all.

If you know only 100 words... how can you read perfectly? It means you dont read, you only memorize words or shapes. Or you can read 100 words.. thats why you cant write, interesting because obviously you dont know the alphabet.. so.. wow, how did you manage that? i will try what you did. thanks

 

 

[problemfarang]

6 hours ago, yankee99 said:

You will need 3 years of verified tax returns and 3 years of marriage if you don't have children. You will also need to accumulate at least 50 points which are based on things like age, education and salary. SB in bkk can help you and most other provinces are useless in citizenship. 

 

thanks for the info.

Well im paying my tax for 13 years in Thailand... 

6 yrs of marriage...

39 yrs old / MBA degree / salary little bit normal than thai ppl

I think im fine... 

thanks again for the good info

[arithai12]

59 minutes ago, problemfarang said:

salary little bit normal than thai ppl

isn't one of the requirements to show a salary of 80k/month over the last 3 years?

or so I remember, I could be wrong.

[problemfarang]

19 minutes ago, arithai12 said:

isn't one of the requirements to show a salary of 80k/month over the last 3 years?

or so I remember, I could be wrong.

 

no, that 80k is not for being thai citizen. It might be for retirement visa but probably im wrong

 

They check your salary because of the tax you gonna pay. The higher tax you pay, the higher score. 

Edited February 11, 2019 by problemfarang

[bigginhill]

7 hours ago, Griffo63 said:

I've lived in Thailand for 10 years now, own my condo and am married to a Thai. I can't apply for PR as my stay here is based on retirement. On the face of it this seems unfair particularly as I've no intention of leaving Thailand.

 

Has there ever been a petition for this rule to change? 

Would people be interested in supporting such a petition? 

yes  i would support it

[stud858]

I know of one chap who got in with military crowd. Became friends and it all got sorted. He had poor thai. Language skills.

Perhaps join a military golf club and make some friends in high up places. A much cheaper and easier way. If your good at golf that is. 

[jayboy]

16 hours ago, stud858 said:

I know of one chap who got in with military crowd. Became friends and it all got sorted. He had poor thai. Language skills.

Perhaps join a military golf club and make some friends in high up places. A much cheaper and easier way. If your good at golf that is. 

The story is false. Either you are making it up or have been duped.

[jackdd]

5 minutes ago, jayboy said:

The story is false. Either you are making it up or have been duped. 

How do you know this?

[stud858]

10 minutes ago, jayboy said:

The story is false. Either you are making it up or have been duped.

The chap is from Phillipines. Stays at my condo. 

To one's own choose a mobile phone.

[jayboy]

3 hours ago, jackdd said:

How do you know this?

Leaving aside the innate implausibility of someone from the "Phillipines" who "stays in a condo" and who has "got in " with a "military crowd", the Thai system doesn't work this way.

 

It's very possible that a supporting letter from a high ranking general might help the applicant in a real case (not a made up one like this). But all the other criteria would need to be complied with - tax record, educational levels, language capability, income level etc.Quite apart from anything else, there would be very severe consequences for the Department of Immigration civil servants involved if an established bureaucratic process was compromised.

 

In other words, this Phillipines (sic) person who "lives in a condo" and who has "got in with the military crowd" is a complete figment of the imagination.

 

Whether the original poster is making the whole thing up or whether he has been duped, I cannot say. But clearly, it is bullshit.

[jackdd]

32 minutes ago, jayboy said:

the Thai system doesn't work this way

Actually this is exactly how the Thai system works. If you know the right people, or are willing to part with some money, or both, you usually get what you want.

They won't totally break the rules, but they can bend the rules quite a bit. Then a simple "Sawat dee kap, sabai dee mai" might get the applicant the full points for the language part.

 

My GF is currently resigning from the army, this process usually takes a few months until all paperwork is done. She got the offer to speed up this process for a decent tip.

[jayboy]

Actually this is exactly how the Thai system works. If you know the right people, or are willing to part with some money, or both, you usually get what you want.
They won't totally break the rules, but they can bend the rules quite a bit. Then a simple "Sawat dee kap, sabai dee mai" might get the applicant the full points for the language part.
 
My GF is currently resigning from the army, this process usually takes a few months until all paperwork is done. She got the offer to speed up this process for a decent tip.

It’s a very superficial view you set out and thoroughly misleading.

In any case in your made up case of the Filipino seeking PR, the rules were not bent but broken.That wouldn’t happen.If he fulfilled all the criteria for PR then a letter of support would be a useful adjunct - but you don’t appear to know whether he did or not.

Frankly I don’t believe a word you’re saying.


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[Number 6]

On 2/12/2019 at 1:45 PM, jayboy said:

Leaving aside the innate implausibility of someone from the "Phillipines" who "stays in a condo" and who has "got in " with a "military crowd", the Thai system doesn't work this way.

 

It's very possible that a supporting letter from a high ranking general might help the applicant in a real case (not a made up one like this). But all the other criteria would need to be complied with - tax record, educational levels, language capability, income level etc.Quite apart from anything else, there would be very severe consequences for the Department of Immigration civil servants involved if an established bureaucratic process was compromised.

 

In other words, this Phillipines (sic) person who "lives in a condo" and who has "got in with the military crowd" is a complete figment of the imagination.

 

Whether the original poster is making the whole thing up or whether he has been duped, I cannot say. But clearly, it is bullshit.

What am I making up or how have I been duped? I'd asked a few simple questions.

[jayboy]

1 hour ago, Number 6 said:

What am I making up or how have I been duped? I'd asked a few simple questions.

I wasn't addressing you. I was responding to the person who believes that procedures can be bypassed if you know the right people.

[samran]

On 2/12/2019 at 10:26 AM, jayboy said:

The story is false. Either you are making it up or have been duped.

Indeed. You hear lots of stories but at most, it ends up meaning putting in a good word - if possible - which may or may not be helpful.

 

That is not to say an applicant can’t be connected, but rarely does it count for much.

 

When it comes to PR and Citizenship, my experience of using connections and money can be counter productive, or at the very least, mean  someone has just taken your money and you’ll eventually get your PR and citizenship.

 

I know of people who are applying for citizenship who have been ‘promised’ things at a particular time, and guess what, they are still waiting.  

 

In our case - for my wife’s citizenship application -  I had people, including minister in this government and a few people with ML and MR in fromt of their names I could have relied on. Indeed at one point the 2IC of special branch was pulled into the scene by a  ‘helpful’ aunt, but I managed to keep that ‘help’ minimal. 

 

It was politely suggested to me who deal with applications on a day to day basis that they wouldn’t be needed, and they were right. 

 

My best guess as to why this is the case is that it’s better for an application to go through on its own merits rather than under the patronage of someone. 

 

Today’s influential Thai friend may be tomorrow’s arch political enemy of the guy who needs to sign off on your application. 

Edited February 13, 2019 by samran

[jayboy]

33 minutes ago, samran said:

Indeed. You hear lots of stories but at most, it ends up meaning putting in a good word - if possible - which may or may not be helpful.

 

That is not to say an applicant can’t be connected, but rarely does it count for much.

 

When it comes to PR and Citizenship, my experience of using connections and money can be counter productive, or at the very least, mean  someone has just taken your money and you’ll eventually get your PR and citizenship.

 

I know of people who are applying for citizenship who have been ‘promised’ things at a particular time, and guess what, they are still waiting.  

 

In our case - for my wife’s citizenship application -  I had people, including minister in this government and a few people with ML and MR in fromt of their names I could have relied on. Indeed at one point the 2IC of special branch was pulled into the scene by a  ‘helpful’ aunt, but I managed to keep that ‘help’ minimal. 

 

It was politely suggested to me who deal with applications on a day to day basis that they wouldn’t be needed, and they were right. 

 

My best guess as to why this is the case is that it’s better for an application to go through on its own merits rather than under the patronage of someone. 

 

Today’s influential Thai friend may be tomorrow’s arch political enemy of the guy who needs to sign off on your application. 

I agree with everything you say and you have also put it very well.

 

 

[Enki]

On 2/11/2019 at 3:31 AM, Griffo63 said:

I've lived in Thailand for 10 years now, own my condo and am married to a Thai. I can't apply for PR as my stay here is based on retirement. On the face of it this seems unfair particularly as I've no intention of leaving Thailand.

 

Has there ever been a petition for this rule to change? 

Would people be interested in supporting such a petition? 

The rule for PR is living 3 years *on the same visa* I never heard a retirement visa would be an exception.

[Enki]

On 2/11/2019 at 6:20 AM, abrahamzvi said:

Incorrect. It's considerably more difficult than you describe. I know of a number of people, whose applications for approval of acquiring a second citizenship was rejected by the German authorities.

Yes, 20 years ago.

Law situation has changed. We have dual citizenship in Germany minimum since a decade.

And as your parent pointed out, you could have it before, it is just  a matter of how to tweak it.

[Enki]

On 2/11/2019 at 8:10 AM, jackdd said:

https://germanlawarchive.iuscomp.org/?p=266

 

 

You may however apply for a permit to keep German citizenship if you are "able to furnish credible evidence of continuing ties with Germany", no idea how good the odds are to have this approved, but by default you lose German citizenship if you get another citizenship.

No you don't. No idea where you get this retarded idea from. You can not "lose" *any* citizen ship in the world, well, except the greek, I think. Germany does not care at all how many other citizenships you acquire. However: it used to be the case that if you wanted to acquire the german one, they asked you to release the other one. But in that case you simple released it, and went to the embassy and asked for a new passport. In real life it never was a problem to have multiple citizenships. Neither in German, nor Turkey, nor Thailand or Japan.

[Enki]

On 2/11/2019 at 6:32 AM, abrahamzvi said:

You are absolutely wrong. Germany can revoke citizenship and it is not against the charta of human rights. The only time it would be if by revoking citizenship, you are making the person involved stateless, which wouldn't be the case here. When applying for a new German passport one is asked if one holds a second citizenship. Obviously if one wishes to state incorrect facts and sign such declaration, that´s a different matter. I suppose some do it, hoping it will never be discovered.

First of all: I'm German.

 

"The only time it would be if by revoking citizenship, you are making the person involved stateless, which wouldn't be the case here."

 

Technically correct. Because that is the charta of human rights clause.

 

Incorrect in the sense: *I am German* No one in Geramany can revoke my citizenship.

 

If you become a german citizen, there might be a way to revoke your citizenship. No idea. Never dug into it.

 

"When applying for a new German passport one is asked if one holds a second citizenship." 

 

Yes, and then you say: indeed I do. And get your german passport. Can't be so hard to grasp. Technically, you never lost citizenship. You only declared somewhere else that you are willing to relenquish it.

 

I have a German birth certificate: I'm German for ever! Regardless what other citizenships I acquire.

 

[MARK74]

16 minutes ago, Enki said:

The rule for PR is living 3 years *on the same visa* I never heard a retirement visa would be an exception.

wrong. in order to get PR you need to have worked and paid tax in thailand the same as if applying for citizenship.

i don't see much point in PR anymore anyway, best of just going for citizenship unless the person doesn't want thai citizenship for personal reasons or has to renounce their own citizenship. I have a few friends who qualify for citizenship and could hold dual but would rather have PR and not be a citizen of thailand. that's their choice though

[MARK74]

16 minutes ago, Enki said:

No you don't. No idea where you get this retarded idea from. You can not "lose" *any* citizen ship in the world, well, except the greek, I think. Germany does not care at all how many other citizenships you acquire. However: it used to be the case that if you wanted to acquire the german one, they asked you to release the other one. But in that case you simple released it, and went to the embassy and asked for a new passport. In real life it never was a problem to have multiple citizenships. Neither in German, nor Turkey, nor Thailand or Japan.

"You can not "lose" *any* citizen ship in the world,"

not true, if you have citizenship for more than one country, one of the countries can revoke citizenship for their country if they deemed that necessary

[Enki]

4 minutes ago, MARK74 said:

wrong. in order to get PR you need to have worked and paid tax in thailand the same as if applying for citizenship.

i don't see much point in PR anymore anyway, best of just going for citizenship unless the person doesn't want thai citizenship for personal reasons or has to renounce their own citizenship. I have a few friends who qualify for citizenship and could hold dual but would rather have PR and not be a citizen of thailand. that's their choice though

Would only be wrong if you did not pay taxes on your pension income ... so please stop throwing around words like "wrong". Being three years *on the same visa* is definitely correct. No idea about other requirements.

 

[Enki]

4 minutes ago, MARK74 said:

"You can not "lose" *any* citizen ship in the world,"

not true, if you have citizenship for more than one country, one of the countries can revoke citizenship for their country if they deemed that necessary

Only if it is an *acquired one*, not your natural citizenship. As in kicking you out.

[MARK74]

10 minutes ago, Enki said:

Would only be wrong if you did not pay taxes on your pension income ... so please stop throwing around words like "wrong". Being three years *on the same visa* is definitely correct. No idea about other requirements.

 

as far as i know you need to have worked and paid taxes as i previously posted. I thought those on retirement don't qualify, could be wrong, but then i don't understand why all the retired guys I know haven't applied. perhaps they are not paying tax. anyway, non of my business

Edited February 16, 2019 by MARK74

[BKKBike09]

27 minutes ago, MARK74 said:

i don't see much point in PR anymore anyway, best of just going for citizenship unless the person doesn't want thai citizenship for personal reasons or has to renounce their own citizenship. I have a few friends who qualify for citizenship and could hold dual but would rather have PR and not be a citizen of thailand. that's their choice though

The value of PR (as I see it and of course others are free to disagree) is that, once acquired, it provides a great deal of security if you want to live in Thailand long-term. It is also much quicker to get these days: when I applied in 2008, it took exactly 4 years. I didn't use an agent or lawyer. A friend of mine did (same nationality as well); took him exactly 4 years as well. More recently, another friend (same nationality) applied end 2016; he got it in October 2017. Given the ever more onerous requirements for long-term stay in Thailand, seems to me that if you qualify for PR then it's well worth applying for it, especially if you are married to a Thai and therefore pay the reduced fee. Once you have it, if you lose your job, get divorced, it doesn't impact your residency status. Plus if ever you decide to move out of Thailand, as long as you come back once a year to renew your re-entry permit (yes, still needed for PR holders ...), and every five years to re-register at your local police station, you keep PR. Unlike many other countries it doesn't expire after X years of non-residence (like a Green Card, or Singapore PR).

 

To tackle the 'scant Thai language skills' question for PR: one of my aforementioned friends (the guy who applied at same time as me) has basic Thai language skills. It was no problem. As long as you can demonstrate a rudimentary understanding "why do you like Thailand" "chorp akat tee nee khrap, khon Thai jai dee mak khrap "which provinces do you like to visit" "Chiang Mai suay mak khrap chorp krungthep duay tae rot yuh yeh" "what Thai food is your favourite" "chorp tom yam khrap aroi jing jing" - that sort of level, you'll be fine. I'd think 5 minutes or so and then out. [In my case it was 15 or so because we got into a discussion about the differences in how the media report on royal news in Thailand and my home country, because my Thai is pretty good: I suspect that the interview process is, in the main, hugely boring for the panel members, so when the get someone who has good Thai language skills it's more interesting for them and so the interview could be more wide-ranging and go on longer].

 

On PR vs citizenship: I am currently applying for citizenship because I'm going to be working here for many years to come and it would make running my company much easier. However ... although my home country doesn't care whether I get another nationality, I have a suspicion that the Thai authorities *may* get more serious about this, to the extent of actually requiring proof that you have renounced your original citizenship within a certain period after actually getting Thai citizenship. I could be (and hope that I am) mistaken, but it's always a possibility. Naturalised Thais would then be faced with the choice of either keeping Thai nationality and giving up birth nationality, or giving up Thai nationality and going straight back to tourist visas, even if previously a PR holder ... 

[Neeranam]

On 2/10/2019 at 12:32 PM, Caldera said:

It's correct that you can skip PR if you're married to a Thai national.

 

It is not correct, however, that Thai skills don't need to be demonstrated in that case.

You don't need Thai skills if you get points other areas. I needed full points in the Thai ability, as my salary) on paper) is low.