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BANGKOK 27 March 2019 09:19
Tanoshi

Marriage/Retirement - Interpretations explained.

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1 hour ago, AjarnMartin said:

K. Tanoshi,

When referring to the Retirement Extension under 2.22, I take it that a letter from an Embassy regarding Income is NOT AN ADDITIONAL requirement to the depositing of the requisite monthly monies into a Thai Bank.

After all, it is the TI’s demands on our Embassies that has caused them to remove this facility, so therefore impossible!

Thanks

Either, an Embassy letter, OR, Thai bank statements + bank letter.

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10 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

So even the first time one does this, they do not need to season the lumo sum deposit?

It would have to be seasoned for 2 months before, exactly the same as the funds method.

 

11 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

BTW I think it goes without saying that people can spend down amounts in excess of what is required for the extension and it just confuses things to give examples of that - no one is asking if they can spend funds that are in excess of the  800k total, they are asking about the 800k funds.

You obviously haven't read every post.

They do indeed want to know what they can spend down on from the funds, if possible.

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On 2/11/2019 at 5:41 PM, Tanoshi said:

Sorry, never saw your original post, but can answer your question as I faced the same problem when I changed from retirement to marriage extensions. I just opened a separate account with 500K in it and used that for the marriage extension.

They can hardly force you into the retirement extension if you only show them less than 800K.

had a small fight with head of Rayong imm a few years ago and forced him to change me to a marriage extension even though I had more than enough for retirement and it looks like I did the right thing. I said to him at the time that the rules might change and wanted to make a marriage extension before the rules got worse.

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9 hours ago, bigginhill said:

ok. but it is accessibile  through the credit card as the fixed deposit guarantees the sums spent on the credit card. No?

Not in my case. The CC is actually paid in full from a savings account, and I believe this is a requirement and the FD remains stoically untouched. 

You can't draw any of the money out, how can that be construed as money to live on? (Just as much as the money being locked to 800/400/800 minimums as it is now, is the truth!)

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9 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

 

 

With a meeting set next week to clarify this new order about funds and combo methods, it would be better in my opinion to now wait for the outcome of that meeting. I could have been told a load of '<deleted>', then again it could be correct.

@Tanoshi

do you know what date the meeting has been set?, I am intrested in combi method

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"2.18 Marriage extensions.

Funds deposited in a Thai bank.

400K deposited in a Thai bank for 2 months prior to the date of application.

Passbook or bank statement + bank letter as proof.

After the extension is granted you can withdraw part or all funds."

 

So, is it correct that if you are on an O visa based upon marriage the financial requirement hasn't changed if using the deposit method, you need to have 400,000 Baht properly aged before initial application/renewal with no balance requirement after approval?

 

Apparently the "balance after approval" requirement is only with retirement O visas?

 

Thank you.

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On 2/12/2019 at 9:21 AM, keemapoot said:

Yes, true for the visa, but I think the presumption is that even if you are "retired" from work abroad, with a marriage visa in Thailand you can still work and obtain a work permit.

 

Of course you can always also opt to renew your marriage extension to stay using the Thai income but in that case you are better off renewing using a non-B extension because the marriage extension is more trouble.

The marriage extension may require more documentation and steps but your employer no longer has control over your ability to stay in Thailand with your wife/family. In essence, on a non-b, your employer has leverage over you because if they fire you or you quit, they can cancel your work permit AND your NON B immediately. You're left scrambling to get out of the country within 24 hours or getting to an immigration office within 24 hours to buy a 7 day extension for 1,900 Baht or go into overstay. Personally, I prefer NOT to allow an employer to have that kind of leverage over me so the extra hassles with extending a Non-O based upon marriage are worth it. Of course I always get the "why don't you do a retirement visa, it's easier" from the IO but I want to work. Now, the new O retirement visa financial rules make a marriage non-o seem even more worth it.

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On 2/12/2019 at 12:10 PM, wobalt said:

The marriage extension way is technically much to complex, so at the time being I still stay on the old 1 year visa way.


Gesendet von iPad mit Thaivisa Connect

It's only complex the first time and if you were married outside of Thailand. If married outside of Thailand, you need to get marriage certificates officially translated and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs approval (you need this for your foreign passport anyways). This approval is usually taken care of by the translation office for an additional fee. I think the official translation, MFA approvals and express mail of documents were a total of 4,500 Baht and handled by the translation business. After the first time, you just make copies of all your previous documents, get a new Kor-ror printed and certified (they're good for one year and free at my local Amphur office), then take some new pictures, get the bank statements/letters, apply and wait for the visit to your home from the immigration office. This is far better than having to have the extra money in the bank for a retirement O or worrying about being able to stay in Thailand on your NON B if your employer wants to play games, if you are working.

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13 hours ago, Tanoshi said:
16 hours ago, steve73 said:

This time last year, 1500GBP would have given you just over 65k bt.  Now it would be less than 60k.  Clearly the income method would now fail.

 

So you could try to ensure you have kept some funds in your bank above a certain minimum for the seasoning period.... But how much?

Will the I/O use the total income, or use the lowest income X12.

 

If he is happy to use the total figure for the year, then it open the possibility for using quarterly income, and if your quarterly income is over 200k/qtr, then this should be acceptable for to 100% income method.

Depends what your using for proof of income.

Embassy letter will be in a foreign currency and converted by the IO using the BKK exchange rate for that day.

Incomes transferred into a Thai bank account will be in baht.

 

It's a minimum of 65K per month. Anything under 65K for even 1 month could disqualifies your application.

Edited 13 hours ago by Tanoshi

I was planning on trying to use Thai bank deposits for proof of income, hopefully using income alone, but if the actual arrival amount falls below 65k (due to a further drop in Fx), then trying instead for the combo.  But should the seasoned savings amount be based on total annual deposits or the lowest monthly deposit x12. 

 

I'm thinking it through as a possible method for my next extension rather than the upcoming one... I want to make sure all the ducks are lined up, and there will be no nasty surprises that could be (relatively) easily avoided with a little foresight.

 

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It's only complex the first time and if you were married outside of Thailand. If married outside of Thailand, you need to get marriage certificates officially translated and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs approval (you need this for your foreign passport anyways). This approval is usually taken care of by the translation office for an additional fee. I think the official translation, MFA approvals and express mail of documents were a total of 4,500 Baht and handled by the translation business. After the first time, you just make copies of all your previous documents, get a new Kor-ror printed and certified (they're good for one year and free at my local Amphur office), then take some new pictures, get the bank statements/letters, apply and wait for the visit to your home from the immigration office. This is far better than having to have the extra money in the bank for a retirement O or worrying about being able to stay in Thailand on your NON B if your employer wants to play games, if you are working.

I apply for a marriage non O visa, not for retirement or work.


Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

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On 2/12/2019 at 12:18 PM, spidermike007 said:

Immigration here is sickening. They such such disdain for foreigners. The recent pronouncement that they want good guys here, is absolutely fake news, and total deflection from the extreme paranoia, xenophobia, and fear of outsiders, gripping this pathetic, incompetent, hapless administration and the useless army. Closing the loopholes was only a small part of the recent reforms. They are largely aimed at reducing the ex-pat population, in my opinion, and discouraging more Western ex-pats from moving here. Returned from immigration recently, after renewing my marriage visa. The upside to this visa, is that only 400,000 is needed as a deposit, and it does not have to stay in the bank, once your visa is granted. The downsides are:

 

The hurdles you need to jump over, in order to get a marriage visa are stupid, ridiculous, unnecessary, draconian, wasteful, and silly. I understand the need for them to verify that you are a legitimate couple. Upon the first application. But, the dumb requirements should not relate to renewals. You should not be required to show fresh images of the house each time, copies of the marriage papers, the house documents, either come with a local Thai witness, or bring a signed affidavit from a local Thai each time, provide new maps to the house, and dozens of other requirements.

 

I just do not even know what to say about the process. I felt like a street dog by the time I left. After hours of paperwork, copy after copy after copy, each page having to be signed, and then being grilling by the surly officer, I literally felt like a street dog. The level of disrespect that immigration shows married couples here, and foreigners in general, is totally uncalled for, beyond the pale, and inane. The copy woman, the guy sorting our papers, they were all nice. But, the officers? Such sourpusses. The woman who was helping us was so difficult to work with, when she finally rejected us over the tiniest thing she did not like, after nearly an hour of reviewing every document with a microscope, so to speak, and said no, I responded by saying yes. YES, you are going to do this. Yes, you are going to do this right now. YES, you are going to stop saying NO to me right now. This ends now. She looked at me and did not know what to say. I asked for the manager. The top brass came over, and we had it sorted in 30 minutes. Took nearly 3 hours. And as usual, it will be a month, until I have final approval. Is it worth it? NO. It is my last marriage visa. I will go back to a retirement visa next year, or leave the country, before I subject myself to that abuse one more time.

 

There is absolutely no need, that I can think of, to do this each and every year. It is nonsensical for everyone involved, to keep repeating the same steps over, and over, and over. It is humiliating, it is demeaning, it is disrespectful, it is petty, it is churlish. It is so wasteful. It is so unnecessary. It accomplishes nothing. It causes inconvenience to both foreigners and Thais. Immigration here really has it wrong. They could be doing so much better. I totally blame Prayuth, and the biggest joke. Immigration has gotten worse under their tutelage and their arrogance, and their insufferable xenophobia knows no bounds. This whole thing leaves a bitter, sour, nasty, foul taste in one's mouth, and the stench can be smelled for kilometers. It also leaves a rather bad feeling toward our hosts. They could be doing so much better. In my opinion alot of us bring alot to the table here. Thailand is moving backwards on so many levels, I do not even know where to begin. 

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This is the type of BS that those who try to game the system place upon others that aren't trying to game the system. Governments globally are allowing the rule breakers, criminals and irresponsible to dictate for the rule respecting and law abiding people. Many new laws are made because of the statistically few that don't want to abide by rules and laws, which is utterly ridiculous. I share your opinion about due diligence for the first marriage O but subsequent marriage O visa renewals should be less involved. Even so, I will continue with marriage renewals because of the lower financial requirements and the ability to work. If you don't want to work and have the money, a retirement O is the way to go. I've heard that in some jurisdictions, they aren't allowing work on a marriage O because so many foreigners (most not from western countries) are entering into scam marriages in order to work....again, scammers (including Thai citizens) ruining it for others. So if you have an acquaintance who's gaming the system and they ask why do you care.....this is why....they're mucking it up for everyone else.

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On 2/14/2019 at 10:07 AM, ddotmark said:

Agree with your comments.  If the Thai Immigration relies on "pension only money" for monthly income that's going to be a problem for many Americans.

 

In the US people have multiple means of saving for their retirement other than just relying on a pension or Social Security. I receive money from a 401(b) retirement account, 403(b) deferred compensation account, Individual Retirement Account (IRA), stock dividends, company pension account, a retirement annuity and Social Security.  Does Thai Immigration even know what a 401(k), 403(b), an IRA account or what an Annuity is? I think not. These are retirement accounts and retirement income. And, are they really going to sit there and wade through all of the monthly documents, perform the calculations and then cross check these against my monthly income transfers over the course of a year.

 

My plan is to have moneys form these various retirement accounts deposited into my US checking account then transferred, as a lump sum each month (to save on a multitude of transfer fees), to my Bangkok Bank account.

 

What a nightmare they could create for themselves (Immigration) and us (retirees).

 

PS...I have not yet retired in Thailand, but plan to latter this year.  Fortunately, I have time to see how this all shakes out.  For those of you living there already on retirement or marriage visa's, my heart aches for you.

Why does your heart ache for those on marriage visas? Please correct me if I'm wrong but I don't see a change to the current requirements. 400,000 in the bank 3 months before renewal and no balance requirement after that. The only caveat is the hurdles and whoops to jump through for the visa (most difficult collecting documents the first time).....it's just a step by step thing once a year really.

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On 2/14/2019 at 10:32 AM, Hindy said:

Besides the obvious guys and the money.

What is the technical difference between a retirement visa and a marriage visa.

I am eligible for both,Which one should i go for?

Depends upon what the obvious to you is. The biggest difference is the money and a marriage visa allows you to work (with a work permit, of course) but a retirement visa prohibits working.

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