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Marriage/Retirement - Interpretations explained.


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5 minutes ago, phuketrichard said:

already in Pattaya agents are offering to do the extension,  cost 15,000 Baht more than last year ( last year apx 22,000 include the extension and 1 year multi re entry).. so its now 37,000 baht
so much for shutting down corruption of immigration and ........LOL

Where did you get that info from, I was quoted 20,000 baht from one and 15000 baht from another. I could post names, but not sure if that would be wise.

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After a lengthy meeting with senior Immigration officials from Regional 4 district, regarding clarifications of the amendments to Order 138/2557 and the new Order 35/2562, I can confirm the following;

Thank you. That clears it up for the – unnamed – immigration office to whose officials you talked. Let's hope that the officials at other immigration offices have an equally good understanding and int

yeah maybe TV could remove the other 25 topics on the same subject

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1 minute ago, vogie said:

Where did you get that info from, I was quoted 20,000 baht from one and 15000 baht from another. I could post names, but not sure if that would be wise.

thats the total??
cheap>
please send me PM

Huge difference from the quote my friend up there got from the agent he uses and has used for years

 

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4 minutes ago, phuketrichard said:

thats the total??
cheap>
please send me PM

Huge difference from the quote my friend up there got from the agent he uses and has used for years

 

PM sent.😃

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4 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

Yes, but that doesn't mean Immigration can't request bank statements on top of your Embassy letter.

You can't spend or support yourself in Thailand with funds in a German bank.

Although it didn't specifically state the declared foreign income had to be in a Thai bank, I believe that was always the intention.

Thai currency exchange boothes have very generous rates.Sometimes only 5satang from the official rate of the day.Is it against the law to bring euros in cash to Thailand and exchange when rates are favorable? This way I deposit my pension in German banks and bring in cash as i travel. The road to perdition is paved with good intentions.....

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26 minutes ago, STALINGRAD said:

Thai currency exchange boothes have very generous rates.Sometimes only 5satang from the official rate of the day.Is it against the law to bring euros in cash to Thailand and exchange when rates are favorable? This way I deposit my pension in German banks and bring in cash as i travel. The road to perdition is paved with good intentions.....

If your not applying for an extension, you use whatever method you prefer to bring cash into Thailand, but if you want an extension and use the income method it must be transferred from overseas into a Thai bank.

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2 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

Very easily identified on a statement from the banks HQ.

 

I’m not so sure. 

 

A couple of weeks ago I was asked by my UK insurance company to provide proof of my Thai address and bank details so that they could transfer the proceeds of my life insurance policy which has matured (anti money laundering requirements etc.).  They indicated that my Thai bank statement would be acceptable provided it showed my account details and my address.

 

I have a foreign currency deposit account with Bangkok Bank HQ, so on a recent visit I asked for a statement covering the past six months which they had no problem providing for 100THB.

 

I have attached below a redacted part copy of the statement which I received.

 

Bank-Statement-P1_Redacted.thumb.jpg.23a780329b67ff7e7f336a32e075481e.jpg and

 

As you will see:

 

1...... Under the deposit column, for August, there is no indication as to where the 2k GBP has come from, e.g. overseas transfer or local cash deposit.

 

2..... You will also see that in August there were two withdrawals of 1K GBP on each occasion.  In the case of the withdrawals it again does not show that the money was converted to THB or taken in GBP (cash).

 

My concern is if I was to use the ‘income method’, is the IO going to jump to the conclusion that I’m ‘carrouseling the funds’,  e.g. make a cash deposit 2K GBP at the beginning of the month and then do a couple of 1k GBP cash withdrawals during the month only to re-deposit that cash at the beginning of the next month.

 

Fortunately if I was to use the 'income method' I’m able to show my HSBC bank statements showing the same funds being transferred from the UK to Bangkok Bank, and also my Bangkok Bank THB savings book showing the funds being deposited on the same dates.  But will the IO take the time and trouble to cross check – possibly not.

 

FYI…. My pensions are paid into my UK HSBC account.  Then, as and when required, I do an online GBP  transfer from HSBC to Bangkok Bank’s London office, who in turn transfer the GBP funds to my foreign currency deposit account at Bangkok Bank’s HQ.

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43 minutes ago, 007 RED said:

1...... Under the deposit column, for August, there is no indication as to where the 2k GBP has come from, e.g. overseas transfer or local cash deposit.

Your deposits are coded as NBK. Did you ask them the meaning of the coding.

NBK is a credit card!

 

BR7761 is a code denoting an exchange of currency. Because it's an FCD account they'll always show the withdrawal in foreign currency. They'll convert it at the counter using the exchange rate and pay in baht.

Edited by Tanoshi
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44 minutes ago, 007 RED said:

FYI…. My pensions are paid into my UK HSBC account.  Then, as and when required, I do an online GBP  transfer from HSBC to Bangkok Bank’s London office, who in turn transfer the GBP funds to my foreign currency deposit account at Bangkok Bank’s HQ.

All mine used to show as an FTT payments, but that was into a Savings account, not an FCD account.

You need to take the issue up with BKK.

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17 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Your deposits are coded as NBK. Did you ask them the meaning of the coding.

NBK is a credit card!

Although I obtained the statement just over a week ago for the insurance company, I never really paid any attention to the specific details until today after reading your OP.  I have absolutely no idea what the deposit coding NBK stands for and, as there is no glossary provided, I doubt very much if an IO would have the faintest clue what it means either.

 

It certainly isn't a credit card payment 😀....  I will ask the next time I have to go into BKK Bank.

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3 minutes ago, 007 RED said:

Although I obtained the statement just over a week ago for the insurance company, I never really paid any attention to the specific details until today after reading your OP.  I have absolutely no idea what the deposit coding NBK stands for and, as there is no glossary provided, I doubt very much if an IO would have the faintest clue what it means either.

 

It certainly isn't a credit card payment 😀....  I will ask the next time I have to go into BKK Bank.

NBK = No (pass)BooK

Meaning the transaction was accomplished without showing a passbook, i.e., not done at a bank counter

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Did you withdraw online ? I think you will find NBK W/D is the Bangkok Bank code for “non book withdrawal” to match the non book deposit.

 Oops....my typing is too slow, already answered.

Edited by MikeN
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15 minutes ago, 007 RED said:

Although I obtained the statement just over a week ago for the insurance company, I never really paid any attention to the specific details until today after reading your OP.  I have absolutely no idea what the deposit coding NBK stands for and, as there is no glossary provided, I doubt very much if an IO would have the faintest clue what it means either.

 

It certainly isn't a credit card payment 😀....  I will ask the next time I have to go into BKK Bank.

It's got be something to do with it being an FCD account and not a regular Thai baht Savings account.

 

For what it's worth Immigration did state in the event of a disagreement/discrepancy, then can always phone the HQ to confirm an overseas payment. They have a lot to learn about their own Thai banks coding system.

TIT, they just get familiar with coding and the banks will update and change them.  :hit-the-fan:

 

Be interested to know what the NBK code stands for.

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10 minutes ago, MikeN said:

Did you withdraw online ? I think you will find NBK W/D is the Bangkok Bank code for “non book withdrawal” to match the non book deposit.

 Oops....my typing is too slow, already answered.

Yes, NBD and NBW are the Bangkok Bank passbook codes for No book deposit and withdrawal respectively.  It's what you will get if you use the CDM (cash deposit machine) and the ATM, as no passbook is used in the transaction.

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24 minutes ago, skatewash said:

NBK = No (pass)BooK

Meaning the transaction was accomplished without showing a passbook, i.e., not done at a bank counter

I've got 'No Bloody Klue' what it stands for.

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3 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

There obviously using their discretion of powers to ignore the proof of overseas transfer of 800K for the Non O conversion in his circumstances.

Yes, but when have they ever used such discretion other than for:

  • Allowing agent-apps to skip published requirements
  • Making things harder for in-person applicants
3 hours ago, phuketrichard said:

already in Pattaya agents are offering to do the extension,  cost 15,000 Baht more than last year ( last year apx 22,000 include the extension and 1 year multi re entry).. so its now 37,000 baht
so much for shutting down corruption of immigration and ........LOL

If this remains true, I should have made bets with each person here who said this was to "stop people faking-money for extensions."  I said that it appeared to be a way to increase agent/IO revenue, and if true, sounds like it will.

 

3 hours ago, vogie said:

Where did you get that info from, I was quoted 20,000 baht from one and 15000 baht from another. I could post names, but not sure if that would be wise.

Are you sure those are the rates post-new-rules - i.e. after March 1st?  15K is about the current reported rate in that area. 

 

But then, it all depends on how the enforcement works.  If no seasoning-checking until you show up in 2020, then it will be the 2020 extension where the agent may need to work some extra magic with his IO buddy.

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24 minutes ago, skatewash said:

NBK = No (pass)BooK

Meaning the transaction was accomplished without showing a passbook, i.e., not done at a bank counter

 

17 minutes ago, MikeN said:

Did you withdraw online ? I think you will find NBK W/D is the Bangkok Bank code for “non book withdrawal” to match the non book deposit.

 Oops....my typing is too slow, already answered.

NBK might, just might, indicate that the bank book was not used when the deposit was made as I made the transfer from HSBC (UK) to Bangkok Bank London office online - Bangkok Bank London office then transfers the funds automatically to my FDC at Bangkok Bank HQ in BKK.

 

But NBK definitely does not indicate that no bank book was used when I made a withdrawal.  I go to Bangkok Bank on the Silom Road in BKK and are required to present my bank book and passport to affect a withdrawal.

 

As I said in my earlier post I will ask when I next go to the bank.

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6 hours ago, WeekendRaider said:

yes, but the one about asking for a 1099 is absolutely silly.   also, I don't understand [at all] why they can't accept a BBL bank book with "FTT" as sufficient proof.  are Thai bank books so easily forged?  and a person at Immigration applying for an extension would chance forging one???? why not just accept the bank book with "FTT" in it?  

You showed up in person (vs an agent), so that office want to make things difficult.  They have been doing something similar if you have an embassy-letter - so folks were showing a Pension-Benefit letter of some sort (Social Security for USA), plus a printout of the bank-statement (can be foreign) showing the pension-deposits. 

 

A Secondary documentation request makes anyone with non-pension incomes have a difficult time using the income-method at difficult immigration offices like CM.  They may even say the income "must be a pension" - though this is more frequently reported when IOs are trying to prevent doing a marriage-based extension.

 

Quote

why a letter and a statement from the bank.. which for me is not in the "weahaung"... it's a long drive to get back home and then back to the city of Chiangmai again... worse, it's at the airport now and a lot of traffic [which I do at my home bank branch office]. 

Others have reported the bank-letter is also needed with the bank-statement / bank-book.  That letter is the same type used for the "money in the bank" method, unless/until a special letter format for immigration, showing foreign-deposits, is worked-out.  Some posters seem to be reporting a bank-statement from your bank's HQ is now being requested.

Edited by JackThompson
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15 minutes ago, 007 RED said:

NBK might, just might, indicate that the bank book was not used when the deposit was made as I made the transfer from HSBC (UK) to Bangkok Bank London office online - Bangkok Bank London office then transfers the funds automatically to my FDC at Bangkok Bank HQ in BKK.

How on earth would a Thai passbook have any relevance to making a foreign transfer through BKK London.

It's all completed online.

It always showed as an FTT transaction when I updated my passbook locally, which is only after the transaction is completed.

 

Something to do with this being an FCD account.

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25 minutes ago, 007 RED said:

NBK might, just might, indicate that the bank book was not used when the deposit was made as I made the transfer from HSBC (UK) to Bangkok Bank London office online - Bangkok Bank London office then transfers the funds automatically to my FDC at Bangkok Bank HQ in BKK.

Did you make the transaction using your mobile?

NBK is a mobile banking app.

https://www.nbk.com/kuwait/private/ways-to-bank/mobile-banking.html

 

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24 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Did you make the transaction using your mobile?

NBK is a mobile banking app.

https://www.nbk.com/kuwait/private/ways-to-bank/mobile-banking.html

 

It is definitely nothing to do with a mobile app or Kuwait bank.

 

I only make my online banking transactions through my PC.   I log into my HSBC (UK) account via a secure encrypted connection and then transfer the required GBP funds to BBK Bank London through BACS.  I understand that BKK Bank London then transfers the GBP funds to my FCD account held in their BKK HQ.

 

As I said previously I will ask what the code NBK on the statement stands for the next time I go to the bank.

 

Just to complicate the matter further, my FCD passbook shows completely different codes for both deposit and withdrawals.  Deposits are shown as I/R and withdrawals are shown as IOP.  At the back of the book there is a legend for some codes.  The Deposit code I/R is not shown, the withdrawal code IOP indicates Amount Transferred Between Accounts.

 

If it is confusing for us, what chance will the average IO have at deciphering all these codes.

 

 

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9 minutes ago, 007 RED said:

it is confusing for us, what chance will the average IO have at deciphering all these codes.

Yes- and when they get tired of it- they most likely will not care about the source of the funds just like they don't care the source of the 400K/800K bank deposit (except when  moving from an exempt/tourist to a non O in country)

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 What happens if a foreigner fails to comply with the 800K retirement visa system i.e. the 400K threshold is breached.

Is he denied his visa next time?

Is he denied forever?

If denied a future visa  retirement extension –can  he still qualify for a marriage visa?

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9 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

I don't understand your reasoning behind that statement.

You still only need 800K and you must be receiving a monthly income to top up what you spend.

It's just a case of a change in financial management, your no worse off.

What about the frozen money i spend about 300k a year and bring it over sporadically from my business if NOT available i use an agent A BIG difference

i am not retired and have a business to run so cash flow is sporadic plus most money s held out Thailand

Edited by poohy
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35 minutes ago, poohy said:

What about the frozen money i spend about 300k a year and bring it over sporadically from my business if NOT available i use an agent A BIG difference

i am not retired and have a business to run so cash flow is sporadic plus most money s held out Thailan

Could you be more specific.

Are you talking about funds deposited in a Thai bank method for a retirement extension.

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3 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

 

Could you be more specific.

Are you talking about funds deposited in a Thai bank method for a retirement extension.

I have a paid for property here so little outgoings just me wife and dogs leading good but quiet life in a remote area

My bank balance here in Thailand can vary from 2/3 hundred k to 2 million

business cash flows vary so yes when i am under 800k i use an agent ,average balance would be say 250 k

i would never keep a large balance here 

My work is self employed tourism based not  in Thailand i travel reasonably often

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4 hours ago, Delight said:

What happens if a foreigner fails to comply with the 800K retirement visa system i.e. the 400K threshold is breached.

Exactly!... Suppose someone has a medical emergency... 300K hospital bill that needs to be paid ASAP and they draw down their bank balance to pay and a month later when released from the hospital they transfer funds to replenish bank balance?...

 

Will Immigration be understanding?... If not what is the 400K for then?...

Edited by sfokevin
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20 minutes ago, sfokevin said:

Will Immigration be understanding?... If not what is the 400K for then?...

Just a way to get rid of people who are broke, and therefore could possibly be a burden on Thailand and it's citizens.

 

If the income or deposit requirements didn't exist, pretty much anyone who could afford a plane ticket could move to Thailand long-term

Edited by pr9spk
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8 hours ago, Delight said:

 What happens if a foreigner fails to comply with the 800K retirement visa system i.e. the 400K threshold is breached.

Is he denied his visa next time?

Is he denied forever?

If denied a future visa  retirement extension –can  he still qualify for a marriage visa?

We aren't sure but suspect a future application may be rejected.

He would be denied until he again qualifies. It might well be that even future first time applications will require the 800/400/800 kbaht for the 2/7/3 months proof, or an Embassy letter or 65k income for 12 months before they can be approved.

He may qualify for a marriage visa, if married of course, but it is not exactly an easier option. 

Edited by jacko45k
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5 hours ago, pr9spk said:

Just a way to get rid of people who are broke, and therefore could possibly be a burden on Thailand and it's citizens.

 

If the income or deposit requirements didn't exist, pretty much anyone who could afford a plane ticket could move to Thailand long-term

no, you arent going to get any benefits here,

without an income theres no food, shelter etc.

 

i would say the opposite are true,

if 400k is locked up, its 400k less spending,

this is a net loss for thai economy any way you cut it

Edited by brokenbone
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Thanks for that. Looks like after 12 years of doing the retirement extension it'll be the marriage extension for me from now on. I can foresee it being a bit of a nightmare at immigration from now on because I'm sure a lot of people will be doing the same. We'll probably also be facing some very aggresive IOs, because their workload will be ramped up. I'm not holding my breath however, they could amend the retirment visa rules next week and then it'll be back to another contingency plan. I'm hoping that BJ's thinking is that it's ok to mess farang about, they can't fight back, but he's loathe to face the ire of our wives and dependants should they lose their meal-ticket.

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