Retirement Visa Problem Solved 100% Legal

[Leslie850]

Sorry I am new to this putting comments on Thai Visa, but I think I may of come up  with a Solution to the Visa Problem.

Please watch my You Tube Link.

I would like to hear any comments if you have any.

Thanks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CT8DqSqULZM

 

[elviajero]

It’s been suggested many times already.

 

It may not be illegal, but you are claiming to have an income that you don’t have which means you are making a fraudulent application.

 

You would need more than £500, because the £500 would soon reduce with the cost of sending it back and forth.

 

And it’s unknown how immigration would react seeing 65K coming in every month, but seeing some transferred out again. 

 

[tropo]

2 minutes ago, elviajero said:

It’s been suggested many times already.

 

It may not be illegal, but you are claiming to have an income that you don’t have which means you are making a fraudulent application.

 

You would need more than £500, because the £500 would soon reduce with the cost of sending it back and forth.

 

And it’s unknown how immigration would react seeing 65K coming in every month, but seeing some transferred out again. 

 

It doesn't mean you haven't got the necessary income level. Many people, including the OP here, have sufficient income (over 65k) but don't bring in (haven't in the past) that much per month as they don't need that much to live on. The main problem remains that not all immigration offices will accept the monthly deposit method. Unless something has changed, Jomtien told one person who enquired last month that they would not accept monthly deposits for retirement extensions.

[Leslie850]

My Friend who had two payment within the year totaling 975,000 was told they needed to see 65,000 per month to obtain the extension.

I am not trying to do something wrong here, I have complied with the regulations already laid down, I do not need 65,000 per month so why put it into a Thai bank. 

Thank you for your comments.

[elviajero]

3 hours ago, Leslie850 said:

My Friend who had two payment within the year totaling 975,000 was told they needed to see 65,000 per month to obtain the extension.

I am not trying to do something wrong here, I have complied with the regulations already laid down, I do not need 65,000 per month so why put it into a Thai bank. 

Thank you for your comments.

You are proposing fraud, and your proposal does not comply with regulations.

 

The rules (regulations) say that to qualify you must have an income of 65K pm. They then say you have to provide proof of that income with an embassy letter or transfers going into a Thai bank.

 

If someone walked in to an embassy and claimed they had 65K income when it was only 40K, and obtained a letter claiming an income of 65K, the subsequent application to immigration would be fraud.

 

What is being suggested is exactly the same principle. They would be providing evidence of an income that isn't an actual income.

[fforest1]

2 hours ago, elviajero said:

You are proposing fraud, and your proposal does not comply with regulations.

 

 

Bla Bla Bla so expats should walk the strait a narrow in a country riddled with fraud and whos constantly changing visa rules are a murky as a London fog...lol

 

I say any thing a all that works should be taken into serious  consideration...

[lamyai3]

This is probably the first thing many people might think of, not sure why a six minute youtube video is needed to make a ten second suggestion that could be written in a few words. For sure the income is yours to do with it as you wish, including to reinvest or repatriate some of it into a home country account if preferred, and then use for future income. However, you're not just dealing with transfer charges on this, but also withdrawing baht to buy back pounds - with the bid-ask spread involved, this is going to get expensive and run down the capital fast.

 

I think it's inadvisable to post youtube videos like this with the current mindset of immigration, who in some offices are already asking for more stringent verification than the embassies ever required (pension letters etc). 

Edited February 12, 2019 by lamyai3

[Peterw42]

28 minutes ago, lamyai3 said:

However, you're not just dealing with transfer charges on this, but also withdrawing baht to buy back pounds - with the bid-ask spread involved, this is going to get expensive and run down the capital fast.

In theory you could avoid both, have the money in a foreign currency account in Thailand (accepable to immigration) no exchange losses sending pounds/dollars back and forth, set up accounts with someone like citibank who do free transfers between citibank accounts across borders.

[Leslie850]

Thanks for your Comment, I have lived here in Thailand 6 years now, I have not broken any rules i have complied with every request the Immigration requires over this 6 year period. Circumstances have changed, my Embassy stooped verifying my income from the UK My income was over 800,000 per year, its up to me how much I need to live on so I only drew 45,000 Baht per month.

But now my situation is that I need to show 65,000 per month as do many others, my way does not break any rules, its not cheating the system, i'm not going via an agent it complies with what they require. I have decided to go the Marriage visa way, a much harder way than my Retirement visa because I comply with what they want an income of 44,000 Baht per month. I was told i needed to show this every month.

The Immigration have been more than fair with me I asked what they needed and still they turned me down, giving me another 60 days to get what I needed. which is a reasonable amount of time to achieve this.

Follow the rules of this Country it's their Country not yours.

 

[wreckingcountry]

Ah the old “just do as your told “ even if it’s not consistent and nonsense ! Vietnam feeling good now


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[mngmn]

2 hours ago, fforest1 said:

Bla Bla Bla so expats should walk the strait a narrow in a country riddled with fraud and whos constantly changing visa rules are a murky as a London fog...lol

 

I say any thing a all that works should be taken into serious  consideration...

Immigrants not expats. Some illegal.

[giddyup]

1 hour ago, wreckingcountry said:

Ah the old “just do as your told “ even if it’s not consistent and nonsense ! Vietnam feeling good now


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

Do you really think you are in a position to dictate immigration terms even if you consider it nonsense? All these empty threats about moving elsewhere like that's going to change anything.

[JackThompson]

2 hours ago, fforest1 said:

Bla Bla Bla so expats should walk the strait a narrow in a country riddled with fraud and whos constantly changing visa rules are a murky as a London fog...lol

 

I say any thing a all that works should be taken into serious  consideration...

It is like fighting with both hands tied behind your back - trying to "do the right thing" as immigration operates in a dishonest manner.  But he is right on this point - it is fraud to fake your income - no getting around that.

 

My b**** is not "the rules" (as they were, anyway), but that immigration often deny 100% legit applications to drive their agent-money schemes - then change the rules around to increase that, while punishing honest-applicants.  If they would just play it straight with applicants (no "extra requirements"), and honor the rules offered to those are already committed to retirement here (grandfathering) - THEN, decent-people could work with them honestly.

[elviajero]

2 hours ago, fforest1 said:

Bla Bla Bla so expats should walk the strait a narrow in a country riddled with fraud and whos constantly changing visa rules are a murky as a London fog...lol

 

I say any thing a all that works should be taken into serious  consideration...

Expats can do whatever they want! This idea could work for some, and good luck to them.

 

My point is that when they do it they should understand they are committing fraud. The OP’s claim that this is 100% legit is 100% wrong.

[jonclark]

2 hours ago, Leslie850 said:

Thanks for your Comment, I have lived here in Thailand 6 years now, I have not broken any rules i have complied with every request the Immigration requires over this 6 year period. Circumstances have changed, my Embassy stooped verifying my income from the UK My income was over 800,000 per year, its up to me how much I need to live on so I only drew 45,000 Baht per month.

But now my situation is that I need to show 65,000 per month as do many others, my way does not break any rules, its not cheating the system, i'm not going via an agent it complies with what they require. I have decided to go the Marriage visa way, a much harder way than my Retirement visa because I comply with what they want an income of 44,000 Baht per month. I was told i needed to show this every month.

The Immigration have been more than fair with me I asked what they needed and still they turned me down, giving me another 60 days to get what I needed. which is a reasonable amount of time to achieve this.

Follow the rules of this Country it's their Country not yours.

 

 

I think you are fine - as far as I know immigration does not make any mention of how the money coming into Thailand is to be spent. If you choose to spend it outside of Thailand that is your prerogative. I would imagine a cash withdrawal of 20'000 and then sent back in a different account would leave a paper trail but that would require so much effort immigration would not find it worth their while. 

[elviajero]

2 hours ago, Leslie850 said:

Thanks for your Comment, I have lived here in Thailand 6 years now, I have not broken any rules i have complied with every request the Immigration requires over this 6 year period. Circumstances have changed, my Embassy stooped verifying my income from the UK My income was over 800,000 per year, its up to me how much I need to live on so I only drew 45,000 Baht per month.

But now my situation is that I need to show 65,000 per month as do many others, my way does not break any rules, its not cheating the system, i'm not going via an agent it complies with what they require. I have decided to go the Marriage visa way, a much harder way than my Retirement visa because I comply with what they want an income of 44,000 Baht per month. I was told i needed to show this every month.

The Immigration have been more than fair with me I asked what they needed and still they turned me down, giving me another 60 days to get what I needed. which is a reasonable amount of time to achieve this.

Follow the rules of this Country it's their Country not yours.

You’re now referring to your own situation. You clearly have options and don’t need to cheat the system.

 

I was commenting on your “100% legal” idea for people — that don’t have a 65K income — to cheat the system. 

 

The conditions for qualifying for the extension are twofold;

1. Have an income of at least 65K pm.

2. Send at least 65K of that income to Thailand.

 

Your idea does not comply with those conditions and is fraud. So don’t claim otherwise.

 

To be clear. The fraud is obtaining an extension by deception.

Edited February 12, 2019 by elviajero

[LivinLOS]

3 hours ago, lamyai3 said:

not sure why a six minute youtube video is needed to make a ten second suggestion that could be written in a few words

Thanks.. Was painful listening to that.. 

 

To then discover what the 'secret idea that anybody can do' ultimately was.. 

[indepth]

14 minutes ago, jonclark said:

 

I think you are fine - as far as I know immigration does not make any mention of how the money coming into Thailand is to be spent. If you choose to spend it outside of Thailand that is your prerogative. I would imagine a cash withdrawal of 20'000 and then sent back in a different account would leave a paper trail but that would require so much effort immigration would not find it worth their while. 

Got to be proven pension money, no,yes!

[elviajero]

5 minutes ago, indepth said:

Got to be proven pension money, no,yes!

No. There is nothing, so far, to suggest they want proof of the source of the income. This creates a loophole that people will now exploit.

 

Immigration refer to the income as pension because they expect someone that’s retired to be in receipt of pension/investment income.

[jonclark]

43 minutes ago, indepth said:

Got to be proven pension money, no,yes!

Err - no income!

 

And most pension income comes from private sources that people have paid into - not governmental so that income is a result of investments. 

[jonclark]

1 hour ago, elviajero said:

You’re now referring to your own situation. You clearly have options and don’t need to cheat the system.

 

I was commenting on your “100% legal” idea for people — that don’t have a 65K income — to cheat the system. 

 

The conditions for qualifying for the extension are twofold;

1. Have an income of at least 65K pm.

2. Send at least 65K of that income to Thailand.

 

Your idea does not comply with those conditions and is fraud. So don’t claim otherwise.

 

To be clear. The fraud is obtaining an extension by deception.

You are right - This method certainly does not keep with the spirit in which the regulations are written but its just one interpretation, and we all know immigration offices interpretation of their own rules vary quite widely as well. 

 

The qualifying conditions make no mention of the uses the income must be used for once in Thailand. Is the monthly income to be spent in its entirety within the borders of Thailand? Is that the meaning? Or is the meaning to ensure the person obtaining the visa has enough funds so as to not be a burden on the state? Can the 65k partially or wholly be reinvested once it is brought into the country? Once in the country the money can never leave is that the meaning? 

 

If it gets to the point where immigration officials are checking incomes and documented outgoings so none of the money brought in to Thailand as part of a qualifying condition for a visa, is actually leaving Thailand the entire process becomes virtually unworkable and so time consuming that it would take weeks to get an extension if checked properly. 

 

I often send a couple of hundred thousand baht back to the UK when i return for spending money - should that disqualify my 65k income? 

 

If he has found a loophole - good luck to him. 

[onera1961]

11 hours ago, Leslie850 said:

Sorry I am new to this putting comments on Thai Visa, but I think I may of come up  with a Solution to the Visa Problem.

Please watch my You Tube Link.

I would like to hear any comments if you have any.

Thanks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CT8DqSqULZM

Nothing is new here. The same issue discussed multiple times and it is an obvious solution. I personally don't have any problem people doing it. But I would not defend when somebody is denied extension for doing so and claim it's TI's fault for changing rules.

I will personally pay an agent to do it if they still exist and find loop holes to exploit. I will reward an agent and TI official if I am desperately trying to stay in Thailand even if I don't quality according to their rules. 

 

If I'm so destitute that I could not afford an agent, may be I will resort to the method outlined here but I would never claim my privilege to live in Thailand on my terms and blame TI for changing rules.

I'm fortunate to earn my income in a country whose  economic foundations are based on centuries of colonization and chattel slavery and I'm a beneficiary of that past economic system, however small that may be.  I despise claiming any privilege based on where I come from and assert my privilege to live in Thailand in my terms. I have to earn my privilege by personal achievement. If my personal achievement does not allow me to reward agents and TIs, I would rather move to a different country. 

 

But I don't have to do none of these. I can go to my home country and get an O-A visa. Problem solved. 

Edited February 12, 2019 by onera1961

[indepth]

1 hour ago, elviajero said:

No. There is nothing, so far, to suggest they want proof of the source of the income. This creates a loophole that people will now exploit.

 

Immigration refer to the income as pension because they expect someone that’s retired to be in receipt of pension/investment income.

There are many posts that TI require it be pension money. 

[onera1961]

1 minute ago, indepth said:

There are many posts that TI require it be pension money. 

And agent submitted application does not require pension money. The rules also does not say it should be pension money. But TI's, due to their lack of narrow focussed education, are not able to comprehend that people have many types of incomes. 

[jonclark]

10 minutes ago, indepth said:

There are many posts that TI require it be pension money. 

And it says pension money on your bank statement does it, when the money is transferred across from a foreign bank to a Thai bank? 

 

65K income could be from numerous sources - a government pension, a private pension or other investments that could be consolidated in a foreign bank prior to transfer to Thailand. 

Edited February 12, 2019 by jonclark

[moe666]

These people with differnt ideas about how to scam the requirements to show income and what ever else, should wise up and stop displaying there nonsense on Thai visa. It is mentioned many times some immigration officers read Thai Visa. If you have to ask is this legal maybe it isn't.

Peopleapplying for education visas years back where advised in many post here that you didn't have to go to class, Well guess what now you have to attend classes and prove it. Keep your mouths shut and fly below the radar and you have a better chance of sucess. 

[roger buttmore]

43 minutes ago, moe666 said:

Keep your mouths shut and fly below the radar and you have a better chance of sucess. 

I agree.

 

I cringe when people broadcast suggestions or methods which may, or may not, be thought of as a solution to circumnavigate the immigration rules. It's as if they're bragging about it, trying to be clever, but ultimately all it does is bring focus to a supposed loophole which will ultimately be plugged sooner rather than later.

 

Know when to keep your mouth shut.

 

Edited February 12, 2019 by roger buttmore
Loose lips sink ships.

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, jonclark said:

This method certainly does not keep with the spirit in which the regulations are written but its just one interpretation, and we all know immigration offices interpretation of their own rules vary quite widely as well.

Yes, quite, "the pot calling the kettle black" for immigration to complain - but I would expect it.  Some of them see racket-running using their "interpretations" to block legit-applications as their right - while we have no rights.

 

1 hour ago, jonclark said:

The qualifying conditions make no mention of the uses the income must be used for once in Thailand. Is the monthly income to be spent in its entirety within the borders of Thailand? Is that the meaning? Or is the meaning to ensure the person obtaining the visa has enough funds so as to not be a burden on the state? 

That would be more like 35K Baht plus "emergency only" medical-insurance (not outpatient, etc).

 

1 hour ago, jonclark said:

Can the 65k partially or wholly be reinvested once it is brought into the country? Once in the country the money can never leave is that the meaning? 

It was never the meaning, until they decided to retroactively alter history, and claim "income" meant "income all sent to Thailand," and anyone not doing this was exploiting a "loophole."

 

1 hour ago, jonclark said:

I often send a couple of hundred thousand baht back to the UK when i return for spending money - should that disqualify my 65k income?  

Depends on the office / IO's "interpretation" - of course.

 

1 hour ago, onera1961 said:

I'm fortunate to earn my income in a country whose  economic foundations are based on centuries of colonization and chattel slavery

You are from North Africa or the Middle-East?  Read up on the history of slavery, and quit blaming the cultures that were the first on Earth to outlaw it - and many other unsavory practices.  Howard Zinn is fine for one perspective, but doesn't tell the "rest of the story" by any stretch.

 

1 hour ago, jonclark said:

And it says pension money on your bank statement does it, when the money is transferred across from a foreign bank to a Thai bank? 

No, but the IO can ask for "Secondary documentation" of your income - doing this even with embassy-letters, at some offices. 

 

1 hour ago, moe666 said:

People applying for education visas years back where advised in many post here that you didn't have to go to class, Well guess what now you have to attend classes and prove it.

No.  All immigration did was make ALL students - legit and not-legit - pay extra "hassle free 90-day extension" fees through their schools or an agent 3 times/yr.  The entire "crackdown" was nothing but a ruse to raise more corruption money - and has been operating this way ever since. 

 

Given the big-name agents were not rounded up, and the IOs who work with them are not on TV, I suspect what is happening now with retirement-extensions is more of the same.

 

45 minutes ago, roger buttmore said:

I cringe when people broadcast suggestions or methods which may, or may not, be thought of as a solution to circumnavigate the immigration rules. It's as if they're bragging about it, trying to be clever, but ultimately all it does is bring focus to a supposed loophole which will ultimately be plugged sooner rather than later.

The "show transfers" method is so clearly open to money-rotation, I can only think it was proposed with the intent to be canceled shortly via, "See, they are abusing the system."  When that happens, another chunk of expats can be shoved into the agent-fee paying category.

[jonclark]

JackThompson - I tip my hat to your ability to quote multiple posts.

[FritsSikkink]

6 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

In theory you could avoid both, have the money in a foreign currency account in Thailand (accepable to immigration) no exchange losses sending pounds/dollars back and forth, set up accounts with someone like citibank who do free transfers between citibank accounts across borders.

And how would sending money back and forth comply with the 65000 thb INCOME rule?